I have a serious question for those who read this message board. Let’s say that the Democrats fail to take back the House & Senate in ’06. Let’s say that the Republicans manage to take the White house by hook or by crook in ’08. What then, all joking aside?

I think we’re all agreed that this would mean that people who believe in working for the common good would be officially in the minority, and politically powerless in America. Those with the money would be able to say that they own the rest of us, that capital makes some people better than others. The two-tiered justice system would diverge even further. We all know what these people are up to.

Big business would have labor by the throat and would begin to shake it like a terrier killing a rat. The environment we all share would continue to be sacrificed for private profit.

In short, the world would be as it is now, but only more so. And the further we go down that road as a nation, the less likely it becomes that we’ll find our way back.

So what do we do? Seriously. I’m looking for ideas.

Armed revolt is out of the question. A peasant uprising against the evil nobility worked in the French Revolution, but the King Louis the 14th’s army didn’t have nerve gas in its armory. King George the Third couldn’t call in an air strike against Washington’s rag tag Colonial forces.

Do liberal democrats resort to civil disobedience, in the nature of Gandhi or Martin Luther King? That would require an energized populace that cares about their own best interests. We can’t even get women in “Red States” to go to the polls to protect their own reproductive rights.

Is it my responsibility to be beaten half to death by brutal thugs in uniform in a protest march defending the rights of people who DON’T GIVE A DAMN?

I’m a devoted Christian and a patriotic American, but I have no desire to be a martyr for an indifferent people.

So I’m curious what you all think. I have a few ideas of my own that I’m organizing some people behind, but I’m interested in getting some fresh perspectives.

Thanks much.
B.H. Davis, webmaster
www.godhatesrepublicans.org
www.wetoldyouso.org

I dunno bout you guys but if the liberals lose 06 and 08, I'm moving in with Scorp.



Seriousely, I have no idea. That a possibility that's too drastic to imagine, let alone form a plan.
If it happens just that way, I would imagine the progressive mevement would have to largely go underground. I would also imagine the rest of the world would unite in an effort to Isolate the US.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while. Personally, I don't think it matters if the U.S. population is indifferent. We owe it to the world population to be both visible and vocal because our country has such a negative impact worldwide. Even if the Democrats lose, continue making your views known. If people don't want to hear it, so what? Be as vocal with your belief in social justice as the religious right is with their blather about intelligent design and the jingoistic nonsense about god blessing America.

This question came up on another forum I participate in, and it led to a flurry of demands from conservatives that the democratic party must move to the right, perhaps to the positions espoused by the Democratic Leadership Council. Personally, I think this would be a major mistake.

I suppose it could happen that the democrats lose this year and in '08, but I've been watching the political pendulum swing for a good many years now, and it seems to me that things have gone about as far right as the general populace will tolerate. What is most different, and unpredictable is what real effect the internet and the "blogosphere" may have on the national political will. I'm just guessing here, but I suspect that there are FAR more people who are politically active--politicized--than in any previous election year. I don't think anyone knows what effect they'll have.

Regardless of who wins, I won't be moving: I might like to, but my age and my innate opitimism will keep me here. You know--with all that horse shit, there's gotta be a pony here somewhere!

High 5 Buck!


Your opinion please. What do you suppose will be the effect of Gerymandering in 06 and 08, both politically, and as far as the general public feels about it?

First off, Hi-ya godhatesrepublicans and Beckett93 Unfamiliar POACsters.

godhates, you bring up a very good point. WHAT NEXT???

Although I hate to think OF it, one can't ignore the idea OF it becoming true.

If that does happen, it shall be called a coup. And any attempt to put down this coup will be met with military force, on our land, by our army, by orders of our leaders. Martial Law will BE the law of the land. And unfortunately, I foresee assassinations taking place, akin to the era of the 60's and the rights movements. Except worse, far worse.



Beckett makes a great point in that at all costs, do not shut up. That would be committing Patriotic Treason.

It's hard to deal with "what if" situations, and, as certain board members seem to point out all the time, I'm not an American, but I think that there are a few options open.

Firstly, as was mentioned, people must never simply "shut up." Regardless of the cost. Remember, "all that it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

Secondly, everybody in the US who cares about its future must stand up and say "NO" to the electronic voting machines, which are so easily manipulated. These things are, IMHO, the biggest trump card that the neo-cons have in their deck. They have used them in the past, and will continue to do so as long as they are able too. Demand paper ballots.

Thirdly, the Democratic party needs to field viable, REAL, progressive liberals. Not half-liberals and closet neo-cons like the DNC. The rank and file need to use the primaries to ensure change at the highest levels. Don't settle for the Clintons, Libermans and Pelosi's. Choose real leaders like Obama, Dean, etc.

Fourthly, the liberals need to take back their own name. Liberal in the US today, in the eyes of the general public, is a four letter word that is used to slander people. In Canada Liberal is the name of a political party who held power for 12 years. Notice the difference? In Canada people are proud to be Liberal. In the US it's an attack word. Take back your name. Inform the populace.

Lenin (uh oh, here comes the commie stuff) said that the masses are generally stupid, and need to be led by a strong, intelligent group of people. I believe that this is quite true, and evident in nearly every nation. Most people don't give a shit about politics, and have to go to work and don't want to be bothered with abstract, philosophical ideas. They will vote for Bush because he seems like an alirght guy to get drunk with. These people need to be guided, and it's up to you, the intelligent, educated left, to do so. Get out there and show these people what their future can be like. They don't have to settle for fear mongering, war, dead 20 year old in Iraq, and insane oil prices. Education is key, and knowledge is power.

So, get busy. You all have a lot of work to do before November.

It is unthinkable, and we must be prepaired. If The Rethugs still have the control after '06, I don't think '08 will be of concern--unfortunately. Sky is right, we have a lot to do before Nov., and if they rig the election again, we have to be prepaired to take to the streets enmass and bring this administration to a halt.

Look into Worldcantwait.com They are planning a massive rally across the country on Oct. 6th as a warning to all politicians that the people have had enough.

Fool you once, shame on them.
Fool you twice, sham on you.
Fool you thrice, Helloooooooooo?

Considering the number of times some folks have been fooled, you have to wonder if they are brain dead.

We have a choice: Liberty or Slavery. I don't take orders too well.

Thank you for the welcome. It's nice to be here



I agree that domestically people have had about a gut full of it, but the GOP is going to try and push the whole terrorism thing and portray themselves as the only ones who can keep us safe from the bearded bogeymen. My fear is that people will ignore the growing disparity between rich and poor, the erosion of civil liberties here at home and the gross violation of human rights abroad because that matters less to them than "security."



I wish I could agree, but that always seems to me like the proletariat being ruled by an elitist minority.

Could you elaborate on this a little for me?

Thanks!

Scorp, your first post on this subject, I think, is the best post you've made here, thanks for your thoughtful insight. You're absolutely right about the voting machines; I can live with the results of any honest election but I'm damn tired of them being stolen, and when everyone can see this is happening we might as well take to the streets because our democracy is gone anyways. Slightly off subject is that I have considered our educational system as the thing that has kept us from being ruled by an elitist minority and if we don't stop making it impossible for all but an elitist few to realize their full potential they will indeed be our rulers in the future, beholden only to their peers. Even they may not be so happy when the effects of nearly every other developed country having better educated populations begin to manifest.

Keep fighting the good fight, that's what will need to be done! That, coupled with a highly sophisticated, extremely intelligent, and very disruptive underground resistance will be in order.

Welcome to the forum Dogfacedboy

Certainly we need to have a HUGE resistance. Right now, most people are still too comfortable to be deeply upset or concerned. I live in a tourist area - and I did a count on the road the other day. Despite the gas prices, 7 out of every 10 cars on the road were SUV's, trucks, vans, or RV's. The hotels and restaurants are busy, as are the attractions. As long as they can afford to feed their SUV's, and they don't lose their jobs, folks are still pretty comfy - in fact, you couldn't roust 'em with a cattle prod. They don't seem to care that their rights are eroding, that the deficit is beyond any kind of repair, that over 46 million folks don't have health insurance, that the president wants to gut Social Security, that Medicare Part D is screwing old people - none of this makes a danged bit of difference to them. Until their own comfort level is breached, they're happy to stay in the dark.

I'm afraid things will have to get a whole lot worse, before we see widespread anger and action.

We can't let it get to the worst scenario stage. We cannot look over the precipice... prevention is the key. Slogans are the key, the simpler & more obvious, the better.
Get the word out NOW... our words are our actions!

How about an international NO symbol crossing out the words "NeoCONS '06" ?

I don't think it's out of the question for the US to find themselves the North Korea of the future. The way we keep bullying the world, we've got to expect some resistance some time. If they don't flat out declare war on us.

What if we lose November? What if Bush declares himself Fuehrer? What if?

My main concern at that point would be Europe liberalizing their immigration policies out of pity. Oh please oh please. Immigration is not really that easy. Then there are other troubles. For example, a number of expats living in the UK say they don't give your prior work experience due consideration and put you in on the bottom rung.

The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

Something tells me that an armed revolt would be an answer to their wet dreams. I think a massive, peacful uprising would be the better choice. Especially when you consider that we are actually the majority. The images of force being used against peaceful resistance was a major factor in the civil rights of the 60's.

Kent State ptII will be the key. But why must it be that way before people actually wake up? WHY???

I must caution ALL OF US against using ANY terms that even remotely suggest a posative opinion of ANYTHING violent.



Do I need be any clearer as to my meaning?

These are the sorts of things that can shut this site down!
Self police your comments, or you will risk being banned.


If you wanna advocate any sorf of resistance other than 100% peaceful resistance,
get your own web site.

what he said. Be careful folks.

I should have been more clear. There won't be an armed revolution in this country. It'll never happen, and I'm not advocating it. The US history of violence as a solution is a big part of our problem, because it's given birth to the myth that an armed society is a polite one. Well, we're armed to the teeth, but we sure as hell aren't polite. We've taken to war as the only solution for international problems. Dennis Kucinich is correct when he speaks to the need for a department of peace.

At some point the US has to get over the idea that we can kill enough people to have peace.

That said - I do have a legal firearm. I learned how to shoot after recieving a number of death threats in September of 2001.

I just read The Iron Heel by Jack London.

The Fat Cat says to the Protagonist: "And if you do win power at the ballot box, what makes you think we will surrender it to you?"

There's no easy answers here.

You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours just as long as there's a profit in it!

Humzzzz,

Seems as though I was grossly misunderstood.

Seeing that the Kent State University protest WAS a peaceful anti-war protest that the National guardsmen were set out to police the swelling crowds. And if anyone has been at a protest that goes bad, then you also know that it takes tensions to rise high enough to justify force. And in the Kent State University incident, that force resulted in Innocent protesters being shot and others killed. A big mistake. However the resulting backlash to the political system was soon followed by Congress re-evaluating the Viet Nam war, eventually declaring a tie and a cut and run out.

So, I again say, why must a dramatic event happen to MAKE lawmakers wake up to their policies that they make that end up hurting their nation and people? I don't advocate violence in any way, I'm only pointing to the troubling truth. Lawmakers lack common sense and lack the ability to see HOW their policies affect public opinion. Why must it always follow that course?

Kent state was an important even in the political change in the wind, but it was absolutely not the only event.
Mai li, Tet, The Secret war, Watergate, Pentigon papers, Weathermen bombings, Chicago, the list goes on and on. ALL these things contributed. ALL of these things were a measure of public opinion.

We will not have the same things happen again. Though the circumstances are strikingly similer, this isn't an instant replay! The events that will change the weather will be new, and for today. These events are already happening, but won't be remembered as Kent state is until we can look back on it all with a historic perspective. The list of the things that are today changing puplic opinion, is very lengthy, and I hope to live long enough to see how it's remembered!