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Peace on earth....and let's get our country back!
Imagine
Serenity, balance, good health, prosperity and endurance to you all!
Full Version: Happy 2005 Everyone!
Peace on earth....and let's get our country back!
Imagine
Serenity, balance, good health, prosperity and endurance to you all!
i'm afraid it CAN get much worse-
every year since the LAST stolen election i've asked myself "can it get any worse..."
yep. it can.
but here's to a prosperous and healthy new year to all those fortunate enough to escape the wrath of bush...
-t-
every year since the LAST stolen election i've asked myself "can it get any worse..."
yep. it can.
but here's to a prosperous and healthy new year to all those fortunate enough to escape the wrath of bush...
-t-
| QUOTE (tamara @ Sunday, 2 January 2005, 5:25 pm) |
| i'm afraid it CAN get much worse- every year since the LAST stolen election i've asked myself "can it get any worse..." yep. it can. but here's to a prosperous and healthy new year to all those fortunate enough to escape the wrath of bush... -t- |
Same here....Happy and safe new year to all.
Doc
Well, I tried. SIGH
| QUOTE (Panda @ Monday, 3 January 2005, 11:57 am) |
| Well, I tried. SIGH |
...and a valient effort it was....
Doc
I reiterate all!!! 2005 has to be better. Things are looking up.. and a second term is not as easy as a first for any president. Elected or not! We just need to keep pushing the media to focus on the truth!
Peace to all this next year... and thank you all for your friendship.
Peace to all this next year... and thank you all for your friendship.
Can it be worse?!?
Are you joking??? Its ALREADY worse, and we are not even half way into the first month of the first year of the four long years of Bush II.
Are you joking??? Its ALREADY worse, and we are not even half way into the first month of the first year of the four long years of Bush II.
| QUOTE (AntiFlagWaver @ Saturday, 8 January 2005, 8:52 am) |
| Can it be worse?!? Are you joking??? Its ALREADY worse, and we are not even half way into the first month of the first year of the four long years of Bush II. |
Aaaahhhhh, but we have SO much to look forward to......the disintegration of the BFEE administration as more leave and write tell-alls for us to see the behind the scenes corruption.
Impeachment and war trials.....those are things I look forward to in 2005.
Plus, we Liberals are finally getting our shit together and galvanizing a true opposition. There are far more of us than the BFEE realizes.
Hope springs eternal.
| QUOTE (Panda @ Saturday, 8 January 2005, 12:35 pm) | ||
Aaaahhhhh, but we have SO much to look forward to......the disintegration of the BFEE administration as more leave and write tell-alls for us to see the behind the scenes corruption. Impeachment and war trials.....those are things I look forward to in 2005. Plus, we Liberals are finally getting our shit together and galvanizing a true opposition. There are far more of us than the BFEE realizes. Hope springs eternal. |
Excellent point Panda... there are 1,000 apon 1,000 of us. In the military, abroad, in many organizations, blogs, forums, etc. We will all unite and have our voices be heard loud and clear. We are heading in a positive direction... and no people I am not talking about the DNC... but about every day.. grassroots liberals like you and I!
And Anti flag... I wasn't kidding... I feel more positive today... than I had prior to the election! Perhaps unity... brings strenght... and their is strength in numbers.
One voice... Once mission... once cause: The bill of rights, the constitution... and perserving america!
<kicking dirt>...<sighing>....I hope you guys are right, because right now it really looks bleak...
Doc
Doc
I hate to rain on your parade, Ronnie, but I wouldn't really call the Democrats united. Their constant Pug-appeasing in Congress is pissing off a LOT of people.
| QUOTE (Rakshasa @ Monday, 10 January 2005, 8:40 am) |
| I hate to rain on your parade, Ronnie, but I wouldn't really call the Democrats united. Their constant Pug-appeasing in Congress is pissing off a LOT of people. |
Got to agree, but the Green party is not the answer, we need a NEW party that contain the ideas of both parties...
Doc
| QUOTE (Dr. Left @ Monday, 10 January 2005, 10:50 am) |
| Got to agree, but the Green party is not the answer, we need a NEW party that contain the ideas of both parties... Doc |
I have to agree about the Greens. They're just biting off more than they can chew right now, and without any support on the local or Congressional level, they won't succeed. They're trying to start from the top down, and you start from the bottom up if you want a new party.
I'm in favor of third parties as much as anyone. I want to see your idea of a third, unified-left party come to fruition, but right now it's just an idea. Plus we'd have to somehow manage to reach out to the relatively ignorant party-liners, not the ones that vote with a party because they like the ideas but the ones who vote with a party just because they belong to it. Sadly, I think the Democrats are currently the best hope we have, and that makes things look pretty bleak to me.
| QUOTE (Rakshasa @ Monday, 10 January 2005, 9:03 am) | ||
I have to agree about the Greens. They're just biting off more than they can chew right now, and without any support on the local or Congressional level, they won't succeed. They're trying to start from the top down, and you start from the bottom up if you want a new party. I'm in favor of third parties as much as anyone. I want to see your idea of a third, unified-left party come to fruition, but right now it's just an idea. Plus we'd have to somehow manage to reach out to the relatively ignorant party-liners, not the ones that vote with a party because they like the ideas but the ones who vote with a party just because they belong to it. Sadly, I think the Democrats are currently the best hope we have, and that makes things look pretty bleak to me. |
Yup it does, everyone of them is pink tu tu, I am so angry at Kerry for giving up and tossing our hopes out the window, he may have contributed to the down fall of this country, time will tell.
Doc
| QUOTE (Rakshasa @ Monday, 10 January 2005, 8:40 am) |
| I hate to rain on your parade, Ronnie, but I wouldn't really call the Democrats united. Their constant Pug-appeasing in Congress is pissing off a LOT of people. |
Which is WHY I keep going on and on about a BLUE PARTY...NeoDem, Pragmatic Progressives; fiscally responsible, LESS Government intrusion in our lives....no longer DNC/DLC
I'm changing my registration to Independent in protest.
We have plenty of leaders within the "supposed" Democratic party who are NOT DINOs and might entertain the idea of gathering a large group of Americans like us together...along with some Greens I'm sure, MANY Republicans who don't like what's happening and all of the disenfranchised Democrats...ignored too long. AND we've PROVEN we can raise dough!
Time for a third party that really lives up to the ideals of what the Democratic party once stood for? I say yes.
Go Blue.
I've been contacting the Dean folks but want Clark and Kucinich on board too.
We'll have to wait and see what happens with the chair position first but in the meantime......Buy Blue.....re-register as an Independent and tell the DNC why.
Well, if you want. Sorry to sound so pushy. That's just what I'm doing....can't sit around and wait for reform that isn't going to come. Grassroots inside my own head.
I've taken back my 2006 deadline... unless the Democrats give a sizable amount of votes against Gonzales (I'd give the cutoff at about 40), I am going independent and sending the DNC a letter with the ACLU-obtained PDF about the executive order. My leaving won't make a bit of a difference, but if enough people follow suit, then it might be a wake-up call.
| QUOTE (Panda @ Monday, 10 January 2005, 11:34 am) |
| Which is WHY I keep going on and on about a BLUE PARTY...NeoDem, Pragmatic Progressives; fiscally responsible, LESS Government intrusion in our lives....no longer DNC/DLC I'm changing my registration to Independent in protest. We have plenty of leaders within the "supposed" Democratic party who are NOT DINOs and might entertain the idea of gathering a large group of Americans like us together...along with some Greens I'm sure, MANY Republicans who don't like what's happening and all of the disenfranchised Democrats...ignored too long. AND we've PROVEN we can raise dough! Time for a third party that really lives up to the ideals of what the Democratic party once stood for? I say yes. Go Blue. I've been contacting the Dean folks but want Clark and Kucinich on board too. We'll have to wait and see what happens with the chair position first but in the meantime......Buy Blue.....re-register as an Independent and tell the DNC why. Well, if you want. Sorry to sound so pushy. That's just what I'm doing....can't sit around and wait for reform that isn't going to come. Grassroots inside my own head. |
great commentary on NPR yesterday on this very topic...
listen here as congresswoman gwen moore talks about the "BS meter" that the public has and why they don't trust democrats who talk like republicans...
also discusses how to confront the 'unamerican' and 'immoral' charge that repugs levy our way... i strongly recommend listening to this interview:
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=4274341
and here's what norm chomsky has to say about the 'mandate':
| QUOTE |
| A large majority of the public believe that the U.S. should accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court and the World Court, sign the Kyoto protocols, allow the UN to take the lead in international crises, and rely on diplomatic and economic measures more than military ones in the “war on terror.” Similar majorities believe the U.S. should resort to force only if there is “strong evidence that the country is in imminent danger of being attacked,” thus rejecting the bipartisan consensus on “pre-emptive war” and adopting a rather conventional interpretation of the UN Charter. A majority even favor giving up the Security Council veto, hence following the UN lead even if it is not the preference of U.S. state managers. When official Administration moderate Colin Powell is quoted in the press as saying that Bush “has won a mandate from the American people to continue pursuing his ‘aggressive’ foreign policy,” he is relying on the conventional assumption that popular opinion is irrelevant to policy choices by those in charge. It is instructive to look more closely into popular attitudes on the war in Iraq, in the light of the general opposition to the “pre-emptive war” doctrines of the bipartisan consensus. On the eve of the 2004 elections, “three quarters of Americans say that the U.S. should not have gone to war if Iraq did not have WMD or was not providing support to al Qaeda, while nearly half still say the war was the right decision” (Stephen Kull, reporting the PIPA study he directs). But this is not a contradiction, Kull points out. Despite the quasi-official Kay and Duelfer reports undermining the claims, the decision to go to war “is sustained by persisting beliefs among half of Americans that Iraq provided substantial support to al Qaeda, and had WMD, or at least a major WMD program,” and thus see the invasion as defense against an imminent severe threat. Much earlier PIPA studies had shown that a large majority believe that the UN, not the U.S., should take the lead in matters of security, reconstruction, and political transition in Iraq. Last March, Spanish voters were bitterly condemned for appeasing terror when they voted out of office the government that had gone to war over the objections of about 90 percent of the population, taking its orders from Crawford Texas, and winning plaudits for its leadership in the “New Europe” that is the hope of democracy. Few if any commentators noted that Spanish voters last March were taking about the same position as the large majority of Americans: voting for removing Spanish troops unless they were under UN direction. The major differences between the two countries are that in Spain, public opinion was known, while here it takes an individual research project to discover it; and in Spain the issue came to a vote, almost unimaginable in the deteriorating formal democracy here. These results indicate that activists have not done their job effectively. Turning to other areas, overwhelming majorities of the public favor expansion of domestic programs: primarily health care (80 percent), but also aid to education and Social Security. Similar results have long been found in these studies (CCFR). Other mainstream polls report that 80 percent favor guaranteed health care even if it would raise taxes—in reality, a national health care system would probably reduce expenses considerably, avoiding the heavy costs of bureaucracy, supervision, paperwork, and so on, some of the factors that render the U.S. privatized system the most inefficient in the industrial world. Public opinion has been similar for a long time, with numbers varying depending on how questions are asked. The facts are sometimes discussed in the press, with public preferences noted, but dismissed as “politically impossible.” That happened again on the eve of the 2004 elections. A few days before (October 31), the New York Times reported that “there is so little political support for government intervention in the health care market in the United States that Senator John Kerry took pains in a recent presidential debate to say that his plan for expanding access to health insurance would not create a new government program”—what the majority want, so it appears. But it is “politically impossible” and has “[too] little political support,” meaning that the insurance companies, HMOs, pharmaceutical industries, Wall Street, etc., are opposed. It is notable that such views are held by people in virtual isolation. They rarely hear them and it is not unlikely that respondents regard their own views as idiosyncratic. Their preferences do not enter into the political campaigns and only marginally receive some reinforcement in articulate opinion in media and journals. The same extends to other domains. What would the results of the election have been if the parties, either of them, had been willing to articulate people’s concerns on the issues they regard as vitally important? Or if these issues could enter into public discussion within the mainstream? We can only speculate about that, but we do know that it does not happen and that the facts are scarcely even reported. It does not seem difficult to imagine what the reasons might be. (excerpt above, read it all at the link below) http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Jan2005/chomskypr0105.html |
-t-
| QUOTE (Ronnie Jakers @ Sunday, 9 January 2005, 7:41 pm) | ||||
Excellent point Panda... there are 1,000 apon 1,000 of us. In the military, abroad, in many organizations, blogs, forums, etc. We will all unite and have our voices be heard loud and clear. We are heading in a positive direction... and no people I am not talking about the DNC... but about every day.. grassroots liberals like you and I! And Anti flag... I wasn't kidding... I feel more positive today... than I had prior to the election! Perhaps unity... brings strenght... and their is strength in numbers. One voice... Once mission... once cause: The bill of rights, the constitution... and perserving america! |
I want to agree with your positive vision, but the last election drained all of my optimism away. I have said on other boards that I thought the answer was for ALL who are in opposition to Bush and his policies to unify and share resources and be one unbudging wall of resistance. A part of me thinks this is still the answer, but another part of me thinks it does not matter what we do. The Republicans know how to manipulate the people and the press in such a way that they always come out ahead, supported by the an army of flag-waving "partriots" who think it is their duty to support their government and not think for themselves.
Yes, it can be worse for some of us than 2004. We can lose our jobs, catch a disease, get our hair cut by the wrong barber...
| QUOTE (Rationality @ Tuesday, 11 January 2005, 12:48 am) |
| Yes, it can be worse for some of us than 2004. We can lose our jobs, catch a disease, get our hair cut by the wrong barber... |
it can be worse for MOST of us than 2004- and considering the sad state of affairs in this country right now, it most likely WILL BE worse.
i want to remain positive about our chances to change course in 2008-
but i don't see anything good coming out of this election. and i fear that by 2008 things will be too far gone...
-t-
| QUOTE (tamara @ Tuesday, 11 January 2005, 9:16 am) |
| it can be worse for MOST of us than 2004- and considering the sad state of affairs in this country right now, it most likely WILL BE worse. i want to remain positive about our chances to change course in 2008- but i don't see anything good coming out of this election. and i fear that by 2008 things will be too far gone... -t- |
I think you are right -t-, we are in for a major storm and I just don't think the USS America is seaworth enough to survive....why do I keep seeing pictures of Bush in my head with a small brush mustache and a swatstki on his arm....things of night mare but in reality it's not...I hate it -t- I really do.
Doc
Nothing we can do. The left has been politically "neutered" for the next four years. The only hope I see we have is that George W. Bush's own policies come back to bite him in the *ss so hard that even Scott McClellen (Bush's propoganda-spouting syncophant) cannot spin it with a straight face.
An unrighteous government that cloaks itself in false-righteousness is begging to be taken down a notch. If and when it happens, I will say: "Hell, Yeah!".
An unrighteous government that cloaks itself in false-righteousness is begging to be taken down a notch. If and when it happens, I will say: "Hell, Yeah!".
| QUOTE (AntiFlagWaver @ Tuesday, 11 January 2005, 11:47 am) |
| Nothing we can do. The left has been politically "neutered" for the next four years. The only hope I see we have is that George W. Bush's own policies come back to bite him in the *ss so hard that even Scott McClellen (Bush's propoganda-spouting syncophant) cannot spin it with a straight face. An unrighteous government that cloaks itself in false-righteousness is begging to be taken down a notch. If and when it happens, I will say: "Hell, Yeah!". |
While I may agree with you I still can not and will not give up, 2006 is coming, let's hope we have the turn out we had in the 2004 election. We need to get key offices in the states, we need to get people in to through out those Dibold machines otherwise you can kiss 2008 goodby and freedom as we once knew it.
doc
| QUOTE (Dr. Left @ Tuesday, 11 January 2005, 1:53 pm) | ||
While I may agree with you I still can not and will not give up, 2006 is coming, let's hope we have the turn out we had in the 2004 election. We need to get key offices in the states, we need to get people in to through out those Dibold machines otherwise you can kiss 2008 goodby and freedom as we once knew it. doc |
it certainly is worth fighting for, isn't it doc?
this whole chicken little "the sky is falling" mentality means we are accepting defeat.
and i, for one, have NEVER accepted defeat.
EVER.
fight on, brothers and sisters...
fight on.
-t-
| QUOTE (tamara @ Tuesday, 11 January 2005, 1:11 pm) | ||||
it certainly is worth fighting for, isn't it doc? this whole chicken little "the sky is falling" mentality means we are accepting defeat. and i, for one, have NEVER accepted defeat. EVER. fight on, brothers and sisters... fight on. -t- |
You got it -t-, we've licked our wounds, now we need to brush ourselves off and go out there and kick Right Wing ass....
Doc
One thing is for certain: The Left has to come up with new tactics. The 2004 election showed us with shocking clarity that what we did did not work. Its a new game. The Republicans know how to play it, and don't give a damn about right or wrong. What they are doing is working, like never before. Just crying fowl at every bad thing we see Bush and America under him doing (at least 20 new things each day) is not gonna cut it. People are watching Fox News, and they don't really care what we have to say. How are you going to change that mentality?
We are waging a war to win the hearts and minds of the American people, and losing horribly at it.
We are waging a war to win the hearts and minds of the American people, and losing horribly at it.
I was trying to lighten up the mood a bit, but perhaps I misfired?
I mean really what more can Bush do? I mean we have that war, the evangelists are coming out of the woodworks and most republicans are still celebrating the election by screaming about Kerry rather than by considering a new agenda. As long as this keeps going, do you really think they're going to do much more damage? We have two years of this and then if the DNC gets their act together with Dean at the helm we can start reclaiming the senate and house.
I mean really what more can Bush do? I mean we have that war, the evangelists are coming out of the woodworks and most republicans are still celebrating the election by screaming about Kerry rather than by considering a new agenda. As long as this keeps going, do you really think they're going to do much more damage? We have two years of this and then if the DNC gets their act together with Dean at the helm we can start reclaiming the senate and house.
| QUOTE (AntiFlagWaver @ Tuesday, 11 January 2005, 4:18 pm) |
| One thing is for certain: The Left has to come up with new tactics. The 2004 election showed us with shocking clarity that what we did did not work. Its a new game. The Republicans know how to play it, and don't give a damn about right or wrong. What they are doing is working, like never before. Just crying fowl at every bad thing we see Bush and America under him doing (at least 20 new things each day) is not gonna cut it. People are watching Fox News, and they don't really care what we have to say. How are you going to change that mentality? We are waging a war to win the hearts and minds of the American people, and losing horribly at it. |
Yeah they cheat, lie and steal, and we have to learn to do the same....
Doc
Antiflag waver... remember that this all did not happen over night. The ground work had been layed over 50 years ago for the republican party to take over control of all three branches of the government. I know you are disheartened.. however, now is not the time to throw in the towel.
Yeah the dems were not united in 2004... or 2000.. we have become complacent...
And Doc and T hit the nail on the head... this country is worth fighting for... it was founded on great principals, the bill of rights and the constitution.
We are working to unite the grassroots organizations... those that want to see change in america, restore everyone's consitutional right to vote and have it be counted... It doesn't happen over night, however, it will happen. Hell, we have the blue print to follow...
And Panda... love the Blue party! great suggestion! If the dems continue on their road to destruction... passifing the imagined majority... and do not fight fire with fire... I tooo will be revoking my stated party and going independent.
Yeah the dems were not united in 2004... or 2000.. we have become complacent...
And Doc and T hit the nail on the head... this country is worth fighting for... it was founded on great principals, the bill of rights and the constitution.
We are working to unite the grassroots organizations... those that want to see change in america, restore everyone's consitutional right to vote and have it be counted... It doesn't happen over night, however, it will happen. Hell, we have the blue print to follow...
And Panda... love the Blue party! great suggestion! If the dems continue on their road to destruction... passifing the imagined majority... and do not fight fire with fire... I tooo will be revoking my stated party and going independent.
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