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WhichTruth
It's only 4 days until July 4th. I hope all will take some time to re-read our Declaration of Independence and Your Constitution. Please take a few minutes and give some serious thoughts to what these mean to you. Make it personal, because it is.

I've had enough. I have to express my concern for our country and our liberty. I can't help but wonder if it is not time to renew our Declaration of Independence, and the commitment our Founding Fathers made to it and the Constitution that resulted. You know, the "We the People" part of our government.

We have decided to express ourselves here with the Flag. No, I will not burn it--I will defend the right to do so. At 12:01 am on July 4, 2006, we will fly Old Glory upside down to denote our national distess. She shall respectfully fly in this position until the end of this Illigitimate Presidency and the abuse of our laws and principals. Feel FREE to join me.

Remember:

Fool you once, shame on them.
Fool you twice, shame on you.
Fool you thrice, Hellooooooooooo?


Get involved.

Happy Fourth of July. Have a great time and enjoy your liberty...exercise it.
Max-1
clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif

(5 out of 5)



P.S.

I'm stealing your Avatar too to use on other blogs.

shoeless
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WhichTruth
QUOTE

P.S.

I'm stealing your Avatar too to use on other blogs.


Please do. I found it here. http://syninfo.com/Responsibility/ He is encouraging people to use it...put it on web sites and any place you can.

Spread the idea.
maxanne
The Constitution is a problem. It was written long ago, by affluent, imperialist men. The ongoing attempts to convince us that it is a "living" document are just bullshit. Those same people attempt to tell us that they can interpret what the founding fathers wanted. Worse are the ones who would like to return us to the time of the founding fathers, when women and dark skinned people were disenfranchised, and wealthy white landowners ruled the roost.

The best thing we could do for this nation is write a new one.
Libertas
QUOTE(maxanne @ Saturday, 1 July 2006, 1:06 pm) [snapback]62356[/snapback]

The Constitution is a problem. It was written long ago, by affluent, imperialist men. The ongoing attempts to convince us that it is a "living" document are just bullshit. Those same people attempt to tell us that they can interpret what the founding fathers wanted. Worse are the ones who would like to return us to the time of the founding fathers, when women and dark skinned people were disenfranchised, and wealthy white landowners ruled the roost.

The best thing we could do for this nation is write a new one.

Here's the thing, though. The Constitution was indeed written by We the slave-holders, we the land-holders, we the wealthy, we the powerful, we the State demigods, we the minority Federalists, but whether they intended it or not, they gave us a tool to create a government that suits our need at any particular time. Trying to determine what the "Founders" wanted is stupid--what we ought to try and determine is what kind of nation WE THE PEOPLE want to build, because that's what the lasting legacy of the Revolution has been.

Conservatives love to talk about what the Founders intended. So? They don't live in our time with our values or deal with our problems. They never could have imagined a country like we have today. It's time that the Constitution started working for us, and we could make that happen, because our elected officials are reflections of our country, and the SCOTUS that interprets the Consitution are reflections of the man we elect to be President. And when all else fails, we DO have the Amendment option, which has been utilized successfully many times in the past, and Amendments 13-28 have created a nation radically different than what the Founders "intended." But it did create a nation that worked best for people at that time.

So I say, elect better people, Amend the Constitution, but don't scrap it. It really is a visionary document.
WhichTruth
QUOTE(maxanne @ Saturday, 1 July 2006, 12:06 pm) [snapback]62356[/snapback]

The Constitution is a problem. It was written long ago, by affluent, imperialist men. The ongoing attempts to convince us that it is a "living" document are just bullshit. Those same people attempt to tell us that they can interpret what the founding fathers wanted. Worse are the ones who would like to return us to the time of the founding fathers, when women and dark skinned people were disenfranchised, and wealthy white landowners ruled the roost.

The best thing we could do for this nation is write a new one.



The problem is not in the Constitution, but in the interpretation of it. If you read it for what it is...a secular document that lays out the structure of our basic national government, while reserving our rights as free people both individuallyand collectrively.

It should be interpreted literally for the most part. Read "men" to mean mankind, and people to mean all people, regardless of race, color, creed, sex, origin, orientation, and anything else that makes us unique.

True they wrote it for themselves...we just have to expand the concept to include all of us.

People like to complicate things, and yes some issues are. However, most constitutional issues should have obvious answers to anyone of average intellegence, who can read. Assuming they look at it with an open mind.

Fool you once, shame on them.
Fool you twice, shame on you.
Fool you thrice, Hellooooooooooo?
sky of mind
QUOTE(maxanne @ Saturday, 1 July 2006, 1:06 pm) [snapback]62356[/snapback]

The Constitution is a problem. It was written long ago, by affluent, imperialist men. The ongoing attempts to convince us that it is a "living" document are just bullshit. Those same people attempt to tell us that they can interpret what the founding fathers wanted. Worse are the ones who would like to return us to the time of the founding fathers, when women and dark skinned people were disenfranchised, and wealthy white landowners ruled the roost.

The best thing we could do for this nation is write a new one.





The problem is, once you open this aspect up for debate, you have to include the voices of those you disagree with, even adamantly disagree with. And how many of us think "their" ideals have all that much to do with individual freedoms, liberties and governmental protections?

If we were to open that Pandora's box, we might not like what happens to it beyond "our" control.
Case in point, the current United States Congress! (and to a lessor degree, the SCOTUS)


Cleaning up the foundation of this country is a wonderful idea, one that shouldn't (can't) even be considered until the country is firmly on a Progressive path. If we dare to involve the regressives in such a political activity, then we might as well change the name of the country as well, to Dumbfuckistan! I'm sure there would be nothing the Neo-cons would like to do more than to modify the Constitution and it's ammendments. (or even remove them all together)

No, I will continue to fight to support these documents AS THEY ARE, because these things offer the country a process by which we are responsible for our own government. And if we fuck it up, then, like it or not, it was our decision to do so. Bush is in the White HOuse, NOT because of "they" screwed with the election process, though clearly that played a decisive role. He is there, because "we" didn't stop it, or didn't think it important enough to prevent him from taking that control he has.

NOW "we" have awaken, or are in the process of waking, and NOW we are beginning that fight to put the country back on track. Those of you over 40 or 50 know full well that these things we suffer with today, though their specifics may be new, the generalities are absolutely NOT new. The situation today is so similer to the Nixon era it's amazing to me. Only it's the Nixon years on Steroids. The rebalance is coming. Bush and company WILL fall and their house of cards WILL come down hard! The only question remaining, how many will have to suffer, how many will have to die before WE THE PEOPLE actually care enough to get involved and do something?

The "ME" generation, and their children, the "X" generation, are as responsible for the events of today as those of the WWII generation were responsible for Vietnam and the Nixon years!





In other words, this isn't something that is happening "to" us. We are NOT innocent victims!
The constitution states, "We The People", and that's what we have here. I am NO ONE'S victim!

We are ALL responsible for our Government, and the US was the first country in history to place that responsibility squarely on the shoulders of those it governs. This idea has been so successful that dozens of other countries have chosen to emulate it.



I am a Progressive Democrat. I love my country for it's potential, a potential that is guaranteed by it's enabling documents.
Those documents are The Constitution and it's Amendments.

The reason we have such a political issue today is exactly because of these documents, and the presidents desire to strenghthen the powers of the President, at the expense of these foundational documents. It is this dissagreement that is why this forum is here, and every other political aspect on the web. Everything revolves around this issue, and these documents! Flag Burning, Abortion, Civil Rights, Freedom of Speech and Religion. All of these things and much more are Constitutional arguments. All of these things are protected by these documents! And all of these things are under attack by those whom "WE" have elected!
"WE" who have done so, will have to take responsibility, without being a victim with the right to point fingers, and use this Constitution to put our country back on track. With the constitution and it's amendments as our foundation, we can do this! As clearly we must!


The Constitution and it's Amendments are not broken. They do not need to be replaced. They are still working.
If this were not the case, the President and his men would not work so hard to make them meaningless!

Use the tools provided, they are very good tools.
Stop being the victim with inherent rights to abdicate responsibility.
Mr. Natural
brass ovaries indeed! As I see it, Ms. brass ovaries' plan is no plan. We need desperately to wrest power away from those who would waste our fortune, waste our young lives, and scatter bones and guts every goddamned place they go, and turn to shit everything they touch for the sake of more million$. We need to do that NOW, not in some fantasy someday.
Let us do the work that needs to be done, THEN set about the project of improving our Republic.
WhichTruth
The first order of business is to rid ourselves of this illigitimate Presidency and its puppets. Hold all politicians accountable for their actions, make the proces more open, demand all admendments be germain to the bill at hand, and take the time and energy to determine the facts of what's been happening.


We also need to demand the removal of personhood from corporations, and take corporate moneyout of the political process. Corporations are an entity created by the state, and are subject to the rules and limitations neccessary to protect thepeople from their lack of a conscience.

Until then I would be reluctant to even consider something like a constitutional convention. The only changes in the constitution concerning rights must be to expand them, not limit them.

The last poll I heard concerning the Bill of Rights was that if the were voted on today, they would fail.
sky of mind
You are the We in WE THE PEOPLE!


Witness the truth!
leftinrightsouth
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Sunday, 2 July 2006, 12:52 pm) [snapback]62389[/snapback]

The problem is, once you open this aspect up for debate, you have to include the voices of those you disagree with, even adamantly disagree with. And how many of us think "their" ideals have all that much to do with individual freedoms, liberties and governmental protections?

If we were to open that Pandora's box, we might not like what happens to it beyond "our" control.
Case in point, the current United States Congress! (and to a lessor degree, the SCOTUS)
Cleaning up the foundation of this country is a wonderful idea, one that shouldn't (can't) even be considered until the country is firmly on a Progressive path. If we dare to involve the regressives in such a political activity, then we might as well change the name of the country as well, to Dumbfuckistan! I'm sure there would be nothing the Neo-cons would like to do more than to modify the Constitution and it's ammendments. (or even remove them all together)


Rather than encouraging more us vs. them bullshit, lets consider doing things to give power to everyone. The people in power in this country are very well corrupt and are desperately trying to destroy things as we think we know them. BUT the average republican, the people who voted these politicians into office, is not evil, or malicious, or diabolical. They voted for people who claimed to be pro-family, pro-church, whatever. I live in the conservative belt of the country and I may wholeheartedly disagree with many, many..ok...most people who live around here, but it doesn't mean that I think they are evil, or that they don't have a valid voice themselves. When you advocate change that doesn't include all of the people, it kinda scares me. Everyone who lives in America deserves a voice and deserves a chance to vote for who they want. I agree that the country I want is not here right now. But I don't want to involve myself in the same inappropriate actions that others have taken to get the country back. As I have said before, I don't think being a criminal to steal from criminals really makes sense.


QUOTE(sky of mind @ Sunday, 2 July 2006, 12:52 pm) [snapback]62389[/snapback]

Stop being the victim with inherent rights to abdicate responsibility.



Who are you talking to here?
sky of mind
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Monday, 3 July 2006, 7:46 am) [snapback]62412[/snapback]


Who are you talking to here?




Every American Citizen.
WhichTruth
July 4th 2006

The State of the Republic


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