http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0605/S00297.htm



Pardon my French, but Fuck the Democrats. They bear significant responsibility for the dismal status quo that we face today, and show no signs at all of changing. The Republicans could not do everything they are doing without the support of the Democrats. They make me sick and I want to see them punished for their treachery. They have slit the throat of every progressive here time and time again, and are still playing politics as we watch our liberties dying one by one before our very eyes.

I couldn't agree more.

This Democratic party is in rough shape. The Republicans are shooting themselves in the feet and the Democrats are administering first aid. They should be reloading the gun.

If someone would just stand up and expose all of the issues that we are so aware of - allegations of vote fraud, the fallacy of the War on Terror, the corruption and collusion of both parties and the big corporations and lobbies. The political landscape is such a wasteland, I don't think most people can understand what's going on any more, much less care.

The progressive movement needs a new leader. Someone that can get some attention and speak about these issues without being beholden to big corporate donors. There is a lot of work to be done before '08. People need to know about the potential for vote fraud now so that steps can be taken to prevent it in '08. People need to begin to realize that the War on Terror is sham. If someone could step forward and help give some of the retired Generals that are speaking out about the War in Iraq some attention, then maybe ending the War on Terror could be a viable issue in '08.

How cool would it be to see Al Gore do this. If he could just get everyone that voted for him before to vote for him again, but this time in a fair election, he'd win. If he had one of those retired Generals (as his future Secretary of Defense) say "I know what it would take to win the war in Iraq and bring our troups home because I was there" he'd get also get a lot of votes from people who have relatives in Iraq.

In order to do it though, he needs to divorce himself from the diseased Democratic party. He needs to show the corruption on both sides of the isle. I believe he has enough sway to get himself some attention to do this. He would need to figure out how to do it without seeming like the voter fraud issue is just sour grapes, maybe he needs a strong running mate to champion that cause. I wouldn't even mind seeing him run with a true conservative running mate - maybe someone like Mc Cain from a few years back (not to be confused with the Mc Cain we are seeing today).

I think if he started this soon and gave a name to the new movement, he might even be able to get a few friendly seats in Congress in November. Maybe if that happened he could even win a few more converts in Congress before the '08 elections.

Anybody know where I can write to Mr. Gore?


Wow, I just realized that was a huge rant. Sorry about that, just something I've been thinking about lately...

**APOLOGISTS WARNING**

It's all about Power.

Power is what brought the towers down.
Power is what keeps them in Government.

Not ALL Demarcates are bad. Just some.

However, Power is what will be needed to kick the criminals out.
And the Power needed to do this, Impeach the criminals,
is the same Power that you're wanting to do what to?

Hummz,
I understand your disdain of the two party system that have
colluded in extorting liberties from the American people in exchange
of safety and freedom. Makes me sick too. And yes, I hold both halves
of our Government equally guilty. Their inaction is mind-boggling.

I think what is needed, is a set of priorities when aproaching the idea of replacing the two party system.

Remember, Power is what gets things done in Washington.

How do you expect to Impeach the president and crew if you
essentially intend to cut your resources to do so, off at the knees?

Now, Pelosi. That's a different breed. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HER POSITION.

Thank you Max.



Lets put it this way.


90% to 99% of the Republicans are either corrupt or innept, or both.
Maybe as much as half the Democrats are, but I think the number is smaller than that.
Ya got a few, a very small few that get all the headlines.


So, in the spirit of truth and honesty, perhaps it would be better if you were specific about which Democrats you are refering too.
Since we need them, maybe it would actually help the problem if we didn't paint them all black?
Maybe it would even be bennificial to give those who are good guys a little credit?



Pelosi is a tough nut. On some issues she's quite progressive, then at other times she's a Replicrat!
Sometimes it's damned near amusing to watch the ebb and flow in the politics of individuals.

Sorry. I don't buy the apologist argument. I side with AFW (check my sig).

The guys who keep towing the line are getting it up the poop-shoot from the Dems, and tehy are just asking for more. You all want Bush impeached. You've made graphics and bumper stickers that call for impeachment, and yet, YOU'LL BACK A PARTY THAT HAS OPENLY CLAIMED THAT IT'S POLICY ISN'T IMPEACHMENT.

You don't like wiretapping and losing civil liberties, and yet you'll back a party that didn't complain about hte Pat act, either time.

You want to have more gov't accountability and whatnot, and yet you back a party that will not stand up and expose the Republican corruption, because it's an election year.

Fuck the Democrats.

Now, I know what's coming: "What choice do we have? What's the alternative?"

I'll tell you the alternative. Fuck the Democrats in November. Vote for your 3rd party candidates. Want to send the Democrats a clear, concise message? Don't vote for them just because they are "Democrats."

"But Scorp, a vote for the 3rd party will let teh Republicans win!"

So what. The Dems who will win their seats won't do shit anyways to change it. Sometimes you have to rub the dogs nose in its own shit to get it to behave itself.

After that you stop goofing around and creat a TRUE, progressive party to run in 2008. The Dems are no longer the "other option." They are the watered down version of the Republicans, and allow people to vote in Republican policies without feeling bad about actually voting Republican at the ballot box.

Yes, it may take a long time for another party to come about, but we must be willing to strug threw this, otherwise our own laziness will consume us and that is what they are banking on. They know most of us are too scared or lazy to go for a third party system, plus its not "cool". Damn people we have voice lets use them and tell both politcal parties, NO MORE BULLSHIT< WE WANT CHANGE! We will ether do it with or without you, but ether way it is going to happen.

We must be willing to sacrifice. The moment you are not willing to sacrifice for freedom and for what you fel is right is the moment you deserve what ever your "master" ails you with.

People have had to die to get what we have, you think it requires nothing from you but a simple vote?

I agree 100%.

Even if the Democrats do happen to win one or both houses of Congress (and not because of anything they have done themselves, certainly, but only because people are getting fed up with the Republicans) their leadership is not progressive by any sense of the word. They will not represent us any more than the Republicans did. Regardless of which party wins, Republican or Democrat, we lose because these Democrats are clearly not who you think them to be. Their voting records are a clear indictment of who they really are, at their core.

But I doubt I will convince many here with that logic. You want to vote the Democrats as an alternative to the Republicans. The Democrats will take this as a sign that they are doing just fine and people chose them because of who they are and what they stand for, and they not only will not reform themselves, but will become further entrenched in their current thinking and beliefs. Every election year the same excuses are used to justify voting the party line, and nothing ever changes. Dear God, how long do we have to stay on this fucking merry-go-round before we want to get off, once and for all?

No Democrat who is not a progressive will get my vote. I hope every person here makes the same vow. If you vote for a non-progressive Democrat then you deserve exactly what you will get in the future from that Democrat should they win or retain office.

Of course you want change!
We ALL want change!


The question then becomes, what are you willing to sacrifice to make that happen,
and would that sacrifice include leaving the Repugs in control untill somehow you manage to make the desired changes?
And what if you only get part way? Would you be satisfied?
And what if, how ever stupid you might thing we are, the majority of the American people do not agree with you?


These are important questions to consider!



Yes, we all want change.

I do not think you stupid, Sky. You are probably much more practical than I am. And I cannot forsee a majority of the American people ever agreeing with me. So this means my hypothetical third party could never win and be in control. Which means that we have no choice at all except to turn, once more, to the tired, clueless, set-in-their-ways, disorganized, "politics over substance" Democratic Party that has let us down so many times since Bush took office and continues to do so and will continue to do so. If they are rewarded for their behavior with re-election, they won't give a fuck about reform. So the political future I seek is not possible, at least not in my lifetime. America is far too greedy, corrupt, selfish, imperialistic, and war-like to ever be a progressive nation. We all want change, but we won't get it, at least not the way we want it. I should just accept that and forget about politics altogether. Frankly, if that is what I have to look forward to in politics, I would rather just stop caring.

Might be a lot easier to just get drunk and stay that way for the next 20 years.


But I do care, and I think you do to. We're just stuck with that.
AFW, please believe that I do understand your frustrations!
But I keep coming back to what I have been saying since I came here.
And that's about priorities.

Yes, we all want change. And that's why the priorities are so important.
That's why sometimes we do what we don't like, or even agree with.
Because fantasy is a nice thing, it's an important thing too!
Fantasy gives us an ultimate goal, something to aim the wagon train for.
Lets just hope that while on our way to Utopia we can get over Donner Pass with out any "mishaps".

Thats it, why cant you JUST MOVE BACK!!!!! We need people like YOU more than Japan does!!!

Scorp's a canadian. So if he moves back, he'll be on the other sided of the militarized boarder zone that will soon be put into place to keep them pesky canadians away!!

I would, had I been originally born in the USA. Being from Canada means my DNA won't allow me to place a permanent residence in America .

You know them Canadians!
They all smell like bacon and beer!

That's because of bacon and our beer is WORTH consuming.