The Link

Found this excerpt on another blog, I think this is a really interesting idea.....what say you people?

I think its a grand idea. I'll put it in this month's newsletter.

Any ideas how to get the word out?

The immigrants didn't have too much trouble getting the word out. It can't be that hard.

I went to the march Monday because there was an article about it on the front page of that day's paper that said where and when.

Hate to pee in your cornflakes, but this will never happen on any large scale.

The 4th is a day for John and Jane Q Public to get drunk, wear stupid hats, and revel in being an American.

The "I love America and fuck the rest" attitude will be turned up to "extreme."

Great idea, but not likely.

I think we should not buy stuff Sunday-tues....so that pre-4th sales (beer & weenies etc) will SHOW UP.

and, as always, scorp, thanks for your support.

Kind of agreeing with Scorp, I think the May 1 protest worked because the date was srt of pre-loaded and expected for these folks. The US is the only country that doesn't do labor day on May 1. In many countries it's traditional to get out and protest on May 1. I'm thinking it may also be tradition in Mexico and other Latin countries, so it's sort of like opening presents on Christmas, this is just what you do that day.

Come on guys, we could so totally do this. John and Jane may not, but a lot of Lefties would.

Oh I'm up for it, don't misunderstand.

I'm just saying the date is kind of arbitrary, whereas workers' rights are typically aired on May 1.

So we buy our beer and dogs the weekend before while we're at wal*mart lookin for a bigger cooler with wheels!

One the kids can easily handle!



Edit to add....

I thnk this would be much more feasable on a regular day,
Say, Monday August 14th.
Only not just no shopping, take the day off!
Everybody stay home for one day.

I say we all take off of work, school, shoping, etc and just crowd the main intersections in each town.

Dear Fellow Americans,

Civil liberties, the foundations of American freedom,
are under attack. This attack comes neither from enemy
states abroad nor terrorist criminals, but from our
own government. A government Of the People.

We the People must then ultimately be held responsible
for this. Each of us, each evening as we watch the
news and listen to yet another report on illegal
activities by the NSA or another bold faced lie about
our affairs in Iraq, are culpable in these acts--if
we, ourselves, do not protest.

"To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in
them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient,
and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it
back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed."
--George Orwell, 1984

Orwell's words have become our reality. Must the
tragedy of 9/11 and the politics of fear compel us to
keep lying to ourselves while permitting wild abuses
of power by our civil servants. The motto "If you have
nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" is the
motto of Big Brother. It is based on the inherently
false assumption that those in power could not become
corrupt, when history has shown time and again
otherwise.

You have received this message as a Free Citizen of the
United States, and I ask you to please forward this
message to your friends and family, and take part in a
peaceful protest this coming July 4th Independence
Day. By mailing a copy of George Orwell's novel 1984
to the White House During the first week of July, we
will send a clear message: that the American people
believe this Administration is abusing its power,
lying to its own people, spying on its own people, and
systematically eroding our civil liberties. We hope
this simple act may also inspire American Citizens to
demand that it's leadership answer us in full and open
disclosure and cease it's illegal activities.

Please mail a copy of "Nineteen Eighty-Four", ISBN
0452284236 to the following address:

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Peaceful protests have changed this country and have
changed the world, and we can do so once again. Let
the world know the We the People govern the United
States, and that We the People are honorable and just.

The author of this letter is each and every one of us.
Patriots and Citizens of the United States of America

How else can we distance ourselves from patriotism and love of country?

The FOX"news" representation of liberals as anti-American is already pretty effective, why not give them some more fodder?


C'mon you guys. THINK.


Why not just hand the flag to the republicans and cage ourselves in?

Scorp spouted


For some, yes. For others, NO. There are still those that love this country and believe in and work for what its founding fathers stood for. I'll be god damned if I'll hand over any celebration of that to those who shit upon it and claim to be the champions of it.

Agreed. For many of us, the 4th is not about empty displays of patriotism but a simple statement about our country. For me, it is a day to look past all of the corruption, hate, division ect. and see that the true American sprit is alive. Not this uber-nationalism, quasi fascist idea of what patriotism is but the real thing. I am not going to spend that day being all down on America, when i can go outside and see what America truly stands for. Do what you want but i am not joining any protests on that day.


POAC, I for one could not give two shits what the republicans think of me.

I have tried to state pretty much this same thing TJ, and gotten many angry reply's and arguments!


It's OK to love America for what it stands for, and at the same time fight diligently against everything it does that is harmful.

These two aspects are not EXclusive, they are INclusive,
and specifically are exactly what we will celebrate on July 4!


You really wanna be patriotic on 7-4?

Put on your best cleanest POAC T-shirt, and join your local crowd watching the fireworks and signing the star spangled banner!
Stand tall, and sing it loudly even if you can't sing!

Fuck yeah it's OK to be an American!
Even better to be a loud, pain in the ass, Progressive American!
I refuse to hand over my patriotism either to those who would tell me I do not own it, or to shame!
Either one would be a mistake on my part, and a mistake on your part to think I might!

Considering all that is wrong with my country,
the one thing that I am most proud of,
is my American responsibility to stand up and question authority!



Come July 4 I will drive to Vancouver, down near the Fort.
I will park the car 12 blocks away and the kid and I will carry our folding chairs for half an hour.
At the site we'll enjoy teriyaki chicken on a stick, blue shaved ice and elephant ears.
Well sit with the 30,000 other locals to watch one of the biggest fireworks shows west of the Mississippi.
Then we'll pack it all up and be among the river of humanity that will flow away from the site.

And as I drive home quietly with my son,
I will enjoy the moment, and realize how fortunate I really am to be an American!




Being an American is both personal and community.
Being an American comes with certain responsibilities.
July 4 brings all these things together.
DIG IT TO THE MAX!

Well said, Sky. VERY well said.

I'm going to BBQ two slabs of ribs on the smoker all day and then cut them down to portions and share them with my neighbors. BBQ is rare in these parts. Especially KC style BBQ. Beer will be consumed in generous quantities and fireworks will be watched in the evening.

Jesus said from the heavens


Nor should you. But actively participating in our own marginalization as "unpatriotic" or as the "hate-Bush/hate America crowd" by actively demonstrating the GOP talking points is foolish and only adds legitimacy to their charactarization of us. It harms our work that we do.

It's bad enough that anyone who speaks truth to power is marginalized. And the louder you are the more you are smeared. Cindy Sheehan is called "Momma Moonbat" by the "Support yout troops" crowd. Kerry, who has schrapnel in his leg to this day, is considered a traitor by many. Howard Dean had a mishap with a directional micrphone, and now he's a raving lunatic. And now we can all work legitimize the talking point that "liberals" hate America and want it to fail. I'm not playing into that.

"Mommy, why are those people chanting and holding signs on the fourth of July?"
"They are liberals. They hate America, dear. Now eat your fried twinkie and get in the hummer before one of them smokes pot at you."

It's important to remember that during the sixties America the Beautiful and The Star Spangled Banner were sung just as much as "We shall Overcome".

I guess what I'm saying is don't let those fascist pricks on the right steal your flag, your holiday, or your patriotism.




But didn't you hear? Our glorious leader made that a different holiday. LAW day. Where we celebrate rule of law from the great decider. I shit you not.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=may+1...G=Google+Search

Fuck that. Trying to dis-associate workers' rights from May 1 would be a real uphill battle. Especially as we get more immigrants who have always associated May 1 with workers' rights.

Like W respects the law....

Yes, but dear leader, the "great Uniter" has once again placed a wedge into the American conversation.
That's what they do.



The best I can do, is to ignore that wedge, or actively remove it!
Do not play into it!




We are Americans!
America stands for good things.
I am here, a part of this forum, because I care about what America stands for!

I am an American Patriot!
I will walk my talk
and lead by example!

Tell me, as a foreigner, what America stands for. Seriously, I'd like to hear some enlightened opinions on the subject.

uhhhh, sky's not a foriegner, unless they've seceded in seattle.

And I still see a million people waving flags at parades and saying No More War as not trivializing, butstanding clear on message.

I think perhaps Chorton is the foreigner,
and as a foreigner, sir, you can't really understand until you've lived it,
to walk that mile in their shoes, as it were.



But what ever it is you call it, hundreds of Thoudands have died to preserve it.
I don't know what country your in, but many thousands have likely died for you too!

That should be quite sobering, but unfortunately, unless you're standing in an American Military Cemetary,
not many but an American would actually think of that aspect!

Well lets straighten a few thigns out. Firstly, I am the foreigner ("me,as a foreigner"). I am living in the US and have been for several years. Many thousands have died in defence of my country and its interests, but that does not define my country in itself.

I'll tell you what America stands for from my perspective as a child. (I won't try to say what it stands for at the present time, because its a myth now).

America stands for freedom; of speech; of press; of expression. It stands for the ability to move through the ranks of class from top to bottom or bottom to top, whichever is your desire; it stands for a melting pot of millions. It stands for a rainbow of cultures, ideals, beliefs and customs. America is the place that one can come to seek political asylum. We also accept those who just need a better chance at the things that should be basic human rights. America is the land of opportunity. You can be anyone or no one. You can remake yourself everyday. America is the land of education for all. Its the land of a representative government, where anyone can lead, as long as they are willing. Its the land of the individual and her ability to participate in all levels of government.

Well I'm glad you said that because thats how I see it. I don't see much to celebrate right now. Do you think it will stand for those values again in the foreseeable future?

I didn't say dying was representative of the country.
I stated those things to illustrate that it's not an unimportant concept!
America, the people, have saved many peoples bacon over the years!


I don't have time right now to do a theisis,
but I do understand those who aren't proud of this country.
I would but remind them, that America isn't just about those people in charge at the top.
America is more about, we the people. People in New Orleans, Southern California, Upstate New York, and down town Denver.
It's you and I and this forum.
It's our children and their future, which is exactly my pride in this country cannot allow me to sit still and let "them" corrupt everything that is good about US.

Frankly, If I had no pride of country, i'd have little reason to stand up and question any authority.
Those who are the most proud, have the most to lose by remaining quiet!

I think in answer to the question I would just point at the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of independence where it says that We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Unfortunately, our leaders seldom practice what they preech and thus, it is our eternal struggle to hold them to those principles. And that's where we come in. =-)

How many other countries of the world have anything resembling the Constitution and Bill of Rights?

These two things make a pretty damn fine foundation to work with dontchu think?
As a starting point, this ain't bad!

Yup. And it's up to us to hold them to it. And according to those documents, we are granted the freedom to do so.

Canada has a Constitution.

You can read it here LINK

Enjoy.

Lots of countries have a constitution
The point was resembling our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Yes... this same blue funk happened during the Vietnam war, but we got out of the slump when Nixon resigned and the war ended...As long as we have enuf sense not to vote for McCain or JEB in 2008, we will be fine in the future.

Though I am not pleased what many of the things happening in the US today,
I am none the less still proud of my country.

Today, is just a moment in time. We WILL recover from these dark days,
and will very likely be better for having gone through them.
Sometimes we as human beings have to suffer in order to learn.
Hopefully, soon, we as a country won't be learning so damned much!


I told this story a while back here in the forum.
Now seems a good time to tell it again.

Years ago when I lived in Seattle, I worked for a company that manufactured several models of printing press.
This company had it's own machine shop with 6 CNC lathe's, back when CAD was brand new.
The machinists in the shop were all Polish Refugees. 7 men and their families who had to ex cape the iron curtain.
Well, no, they didn't have too, they chose too. Those of us who are in our 20's or less,
don't really recall what it was like during the cold war. When these men and their families decided to leave Poland, they knew that if they were caught they would most likely be killed, and if not, spend their lives in a Siberian Gulag. This is no over dramatization. It's the truth, as it was back then. Risking your life is one thing, but to risk your families lives too? That must mean that the reasons to go are pretty exceptional!
And they also knew they could never go back. Of course, now they can, but back then no one would have guessed the fall of the Soviet Empire!

I'd had many conversations with these guys. The CAD designing was leading edge, and these CNC machines were amazing to watch! Golfing is a great time for conversation, waiting for a part run to finish so it could go to assembly, choosing a doughnut to have with yer coffee.

These guys never talked of regret for leaving their ancestral home, and their extended families.
They always talked about their pride at being Americans! And yes, I was there in the room with them all when they took that citizenship oath! I damned near cried in public!

I have asked them, what is it about America that made you go through all that you have?
They had many answers. Things like, here in America you can complain! Here in America you can be what you want to be! Here in America you have rights that everybody in the rest of the world wants too!

In America, are the streets paved with gold?
To them, metaphorically, absofuckinlutely!
Those of us who were born here take these things for granted. And they want their kids to be able to take it for granted too!


In today's world, we don't have realities like the Soviet Union, or the Iron Curtain. We do have Korea, and for the Koreans the cold war continues. But for the rest of us, for those who are younger, I hope you never know what it's like to not have the liberties you take for granted! I hope you never have to risk your life, or your families life so that you and your family might have the liberties that provide basic human dignity!


If it perfect here in America? Hell no it isn't!
And you know what? It's not sposed to be!
Life is about change. Life in a society is about give and take, and balance.
In this case, America can never be perfect for all people.

But what makes America Great?
It's the people, good or bad, right or wrong, that decide it's future!
The constitution and it's bill of fights guarantee this!
And as much as my Polish Machinist friends fought to be here,
I will fight to preserve the things they risked their lives to obtain!

I'm not waving a flag here.
I'm not talking symbols.
I'm talking about what I feel in my heart and soul.
I'm talking about the reasons that has motivated millions to emigrate here.
I'm talking about the values that have been the reasons thousands of Americans gave the ultimate sacrifice.
I'm talking about making sure not a single one of those valuable and unique lives are wasted!