Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Democratic Gun Grabbers are at it again
OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards > Political Discussion forums > Politics In General
Pages: 1, 2
rexateyfor
AN ARMED POPULATION IS THE LAST LINE OF DEFENCE AGAINST A TOTALITARIAN GOVERMENT, IMAGINE HOW SUCESSFULL THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WOULD HAVE BEEN IF BRITAIN HAD GUN CONFISCATIONS


QUOTE

109th U.S. Congress (2005-2006)
S. 645: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005
Introduced: Mar 16, 2005
Sponsor: Sen. Frank Lautenberg [D-NJ]
Status: Introduced (By Sen. Frank Lautenberg [D-NJ])



II




109TH CONGRESS
S. 645
1ST SESSION


To reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection
Act.




IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
MARCH 16, 2005
Mr. LAUTENBERG (for himself, Mr. CORZINE, Mr. SCHUMER, Mrs. BOXER,
Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. DURBIN, Ms. MIKULSKI, Mr. SARBANES, Mr. REED,
Mr. AKAKA, Mr. DODD, and Mrs. CLINTON) introduced the following bill;
which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary




A BILL
To reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms
Use Protection Act.

1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa-
2 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
3 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

4 This Act may be cited as the ``Assault Weapons Ban
5 and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005''.
2
1 SEC. 2. RESTRICTION ON MANUFACTURE, TRANSFER, AND

2 POSSESSION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC

3 ASSAULT WEAPONS.

4 (a) RESTRICTION.--Section 922 of title 18, United
5 States Code, is amended by adding after subsection (u)
6 the following:
7 ``(v)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufac-
8 ture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.
9 ``(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
10 or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise
11 lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of enact-
12 ment of this subsection.
13 ``(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm
14 that--
15 ``(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level,
16 or slide action;
17 ``(cool.gif has been rendered permanently inoperable;
18 or
19 ``© is an antique firearm.
20 ``(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
21 ``(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or pos-
22 session by the United States or a department or
23 agency of the United States or a State or a depart-
24 ment, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or
25 a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement of-


S 645 IS
3
1 ficer employed by such an entity for purposes of law
2 enforcement (whether on or off duty);
3 ``(cool.gif the transfer to a licensee under title I of
4 the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of es-
5 tablishing and maintaining an onsite physical protec-
6 tion system and security organization required by
7 Federal law, or possession by an employee or con-
8 tractor of such licensee onsite for such purposes or
9 off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training
10 or transportation of nuclear materials;
11 ``© the possession, by an individual who is re-
12 tired from service with a law enforcement agency
13 and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving a fire-
14 arm, of a semiautomatic assault weapon transferred
15 to the individual by the agency upon such retire-
16 ment; or
17 ``(D) the manufacture, transfer, or possession
18 of a semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed
19 manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes
20 of testing or experimentation authorized by the Sec-
21 retary.
22 ``(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer
23 a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1)
24 does not apply, except through--




S 645 IS
4
1 ``(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of sub-
2 section (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon
3 shall be considered to be transferred from the busi-
4 ness inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer
5 shall be considered to be the transferor; or
6 ``(cool.gif a State or local law enforcement agency if
7 the transfer is made in accordance with the proce-
8 dures provided for in subsection (t) of this section
9 and section 923(g).
10 ``(6) The Attorney General shall establish and main-
11 tain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model,
12 and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic assault
13 weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has
14 been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State
15 law, and the nature and circumstances of the crime in-
16 volved, including the outcome of relevant criminal inves-
17 tigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall an-
18 nually submit the record to Congress and make the record
19 available to the general public.''.
20 (cool.gif DEFINITION SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT
OF

21 WEAPON.--Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code,
22 is amended by adding after paragraph (29) the following:
23 ``(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon'
24 means any of the following:




S 645 IS
5
1 ``(A) RIFLES.--The following rifles or copies or
2 duplicates thereof--
3 ``(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK74,
4 ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA
5 85, SA 93, VEPR;
6 ``(ii) AR10;
7 ``(iii) AR15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite
8 M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;
9 ``(iv) AR70;
10 ``(v) Calico Liberty;
11 ``(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or
12 Dragunov SVU;
13 ``(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/
14 LAR, or FNC;
15 ``(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;
16 ``(ix) HK91, HK93, HK94, or HK
17 PSG1;
18 ``(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;
19 ``(xi) M1 Carbine;
20 ``(xii) Saiga;
21 ``(xiii) SAR8, SAR4800;
22 ``(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;
23 ``(xv) SLG 95;
24 ``(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;
25 ``(xvii) Steyr AUG;


S 645 IS
6
1 ``(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini14;
2 ``(xix) Tavor;
3 ``(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or
4 Thompson 1927 Commando; or
5 ``(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil
6 Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).
7 ``(cool.gif PISTOLS.--The following pistols or copies
8 or duplicates thereof--
9 ``(i) Calico M110;
10 ``(ii) MAC10, MAC11, or MPA3;
11 ``(iii) Olympic Arms OA;
12 ``(iv) TEC9, TECDC9, TEC22 Scor-
13 pion, or AB10; or
14 ``(v) Uzi.
15 ``© SHOTGUNS.--The following shotguns or
16 copies or duplicates thereof--
17 ``(i) Armscor 30 BG;
18 ``(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;
19 ``(iii) Striker 12; or
20 ``(iv) Streetsweeper.
21 ``(D) DETACHABLE RIFLES.--A
MAGAZINE

22 semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a
23 detachable magazine, and that has--
24 ``(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
25 ``(ii) a threaded barrel;


S 645 IS
7
1 ``(iii) a pistol grip;
2 ``(iv) a forward grip; or
3 ``(v) a barrel shroud.
4 ``(E) FIXED MAGAZINE RIFLES.--A semiauto-
5 matic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capac-
6 ity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an at-
7 tached tubular device designed to accept, and capa-
8 ble of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammu-
9 nition.
10 ``(F) DETACHABLE PISTOLS.--A
MAGAZINE

11 semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a
12 detachable magazine, and has--
13 ``(i) a second pistol grip;
14 ``(ii) a threaded barrel;
15 ``(iii) a barrel shroud; or
16 ``(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable
17 magazine at a location outside of the pistol
18 grip.
19 ``(G) FIXED MAGAZINE PISTOLS.--A semiauto-
20 matic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the ca-
21 pacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
22 ``(H) SEMIAUTOMATIC SHOTGUNS.--A semi-
23 automatic shotgun that has--
24 ``(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
25 ``(ii) a pistol grip;


S 645 IS
8
1 ``(iii) the ability to accept a detachable
2 magazine; or
3 ``(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more
4 than 5 rounds.
5 ``(I) OTHER SHOTGUNS.--A shotgun with a re-
6 volving cylinder.
7 ``(J) FRAMES OR RECEIVERS.--A frame or re-
8 ceiver that is identical to, or based substantially on
9 the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any
10 of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).
11 ``(K) CONVERSION KITS.--A conversion kit.
12 ``(L) MILITARY OR LAW ENFORCMENT WEAP-

13 ONS.--A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally
14 designed for military or law enforcement use, or a
15 firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that
16 is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as
17 determined by the Attorney General. In making the
18 determination, there shall be a rebuttable presump-
19 tion that a firearm procured for use by the United
20 States military or any Federal law enforcement
21 agency is not particularly suitable for sporting pur-
22 poses, and a firearm shall not be determined to be
23 particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely be-
24 cause the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting
25 event.''.


S 645 IS
9
1 © PENALTIES.--
2 (1) VIOLATION OF SECTION 922(v).--Section

3 924(a)(1)(cool.gif of title 18, United States Code, is
4 amended by striking ``or (q) of section 922'' and in-
5 serting ``®, or (v) of section 922''.
6 (2) USE OR POSSESSION DURING CRIME OF VIO-

7 CRIME.--Section
LENCE OR DRUG TRAFFICKING

8 924©(1)(cool.gif(i) of title 18, United States Code, is
9 amended by inserting ``or semiautomatic assault
10 weapon,'' after ``short-barreled shotgun,''.
11 (d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS SEMIAUTO-
FOR

12 ASSAULT WEAPONS.--Section 923(i) of title 18,
MATIC

13 United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the
14 following: ``The serial number of any semiautomatic as-
15 sault weapon manufactured after the date of the enact-
16 ment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which
17 the weapon was manufactured.''.
18 (e) RELATED DEFINITIONS.--Section 921(a) of such
19 title is amended by adding at the end the following:
20 ``(36) BARREL SHROUD.--The term `barrel shroud'
21 means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or com-
22 pletely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud
23 protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by
24 the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the
25 barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock


S 645 IS
10
1 along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or
2 substantially encircle the barrel.
3 ``(37) CONVERSION KIT.--The term `conversion kit'
4 means any part or combination of parts designed and in-
5 tended for use in converting a firearm into a semiauto-
6 matic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from
7 which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled
8 if the parts are in the possession or under the control of
9 a person.
10 ``(38) DETACHABLE MAGAZINE.--The term `detach-
11 able magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that
12 can readily be inserted into a firearm.
13 ``(39) FIXED MAGAZINE.--The term `fixed magazine'
14 means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or per-
15 manently attached to, a firearm.
16 ``(40) FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK.--The term
17 `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds,
18 telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size,
19 or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the
20 concealability, of a firearm.
21 ``(41) FORWARD GRIP.--The term `forward grip'
22 means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions
23 as a pistol grip.




S 645 IS
11
1 ``(42) PISTOL GRIP.--The term `pistol grip' means a
2 grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that
3 can function as a grip.
4 ``(43) THREADED BARREL.--The term `threaded bar-
5 rel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in
6 such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm
7 as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms
8 Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).''.
9 SEC. 3. BAN OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING

10 DEVICES.

11 (a) PROHIBITION.--Section 922 of title 18, United
12 States Code, as amended by section 2(a), is amended by
13 adding after subsection (v) the following:
14 ``(w)(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (cool.gif,
15 it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess
16 a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
17 ``(cool.gif Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to the posses-
18 sion or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding
19 device otherwise lawfully possessed in the United States
20 on the date of enactment of this subsection.
21 ``(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import
22 or bring into the United States a large capacity ammuni-
23 tion feeding device.
24 ``(3) This subsection shall not apply to--




S 645 IS
12
1 ``(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or pos-
2 session by the United States or a department or
3 agency of the United States or a State or a depart-
4 ment, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or
5 a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement of-
6 ficer employed by such an entity for purposes of law
7 enforcement (whether on or off duty);
8 ``(cool.gif the transfer to a licensee under title I of
9 the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of es-
10 tablishing and maintaining an onsite physical protec-
11 tion system and security organization required by
12 Federal law, or possession by an employee or con-
13 tractor of such licensee onsite for such purposes or
14 off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training
15 or transportation of nuclear materials; or
16 ``© the manufacture, transfer, or possession of
17 any large capacity ammunition feeding device by a
18 licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the
19 purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by
20 the Secretary.
21 ``(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer,
22 licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large
23 capacity ammunition feeding device that was manufac-
24 tured on or before the date of enactment of this sub-
25 section, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before


S 645 IS
13
1 the end of the 60-day period that begins with the date
2 of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed
3 by the Attorney General, that the device was manufac-
4 tured on or before the date of enactment of this sub-
5 section.''.
6 (cool.gif DEFINITION LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION
OF

7 FEEDING DEVICE.--Section 921(a) of title 18, United
8 States Code, as amended by section 2(cool.gif, is amended by
9 adding after paragraph (30) the following:
10 ``(31) The term `large capacity ammunition feeding
11 device'--
12 ``(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip,
13 or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can
14 be readily restored or converted to accept, more than
15 10 rounds of ammunition; but
16 ``(cool.gif does not include an attached tubular de-
17 vice designed to accept, and capable of operating
18 only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.''.
19 © PENALTY.--Section 924(a)(1)(cool.gif of title 18,
20 United States Code, as amended by section 2©, is amend-
21 ed by striking ``or (v)'' and inserting ``(v), or (w)''.
22 (d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS LARGE CAPAC-
FOR

23 AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.--Section 923(i) of
ITY

24 title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(d),
25 is amended by adding at the end the following: ``A large


S 645 IS
14
1 capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after
2 the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identi-
3 fied by a serial number that clearly shows that the device
4 was manufactured or imported after the effective date of
5 this subsection, and such other identification as the Attor-
6 ney General may by regulation prescribe.
7 (e) BAN ON TRANSFER OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT
8 WEAPON WITH LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING
9 DEVICE.--
10 (1) IN GENERAL.--Section 922 of title 18,
11 United States Code, is amended by inserting at the
12 end the following:
13 ``(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer
14 any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition
15 feeding device.''.
16 (2) PENALTIES.--Section 924(a) of title 18,
17 United States Code, is amended by adding at the
18 end the following:
19 ``(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall
20 be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10
21 years, or both.
22 ``(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4)
23 shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than
24 5 years, or both.''.




S 645 IS
15
1 SEC. 4. STUDY BY ATTORNEY GENERAL.

2 (a) STUDY.--The Attorney General shall investigate
3 and study the effect of this Act and the amendments made
4 by this Act, and in particular shall determine their impact,
5 if any, on violent and drug trafficking crime. The study
6 shall be conducted over a period of 18 months, com-
7 mencing 12 months after the date of enactment of this
8 Act.
9 (cool.gif REPORT.--Not later than 30 months after the
10 date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall
11 prepare and submit to Congress a report setting forth in
12 detail the findings and determinations made in the study
13 under subsection (a).
14 SEC. 5. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.

15 Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is
16 amended--
17 (1) in paragraph (1)--
18 (A) in subparagraph (cool.gif, by striking the
19 period and inserting a semicolon; and
20 (cool.gif by adding at the end the following:
21 ``© a semiautomatic assault weapon; or
22 ``(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding de-
23 vice.''; and
24 (2) in paragraph (2)--
25 (A) in subparagraph (cool.gif, by striking the
26 period and inserting a semicolon; and
S 645 IS
16
1 (cool.gif by adding at the end the following:
2 ``© a semiautomatic assault weapon; or
3 ``(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding de-
4 vice.''.
5 SEC. 6. EFFECTIVE DATE.

6 This Act and the amendments made by this Act shall
7 take effect on the date of enactment of this Act.





S 645 IS

Copyright © 2006, but you're welcome to reuse/copy anything on this site. GovTrack is a noncommercial project unaffiliated with the U.S. Government or any other group. For more information, see About GovTrack.
For questions or comments only about the operation of this website, email comments@govtrack.us. Emails directed to members of congress will simply be ignored. To contact your congressperson or senator, visit his or her website.
Gadzooks!
If, worst case scenario, martial law is declared and the goverment issues a list of liberals or anybody else to be rounded up for questioning, arrest and detention, what do you propose to do with your assault rifle when six heavily armed infantrymen pour out of a Stryker assault vehicle at your front door? The weaponry employed by both sides during the American Revolution were pretty much the same. Have you had a look at what the owner of, say a Ruger Mini 14 might be facing when he declares,"Hell, no!"
rexateyfor
QUOTE(Gadzooks! @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 12:42 pm) [snapback]50680[/snapback]

If, worst case scenario, martial law is declared and the goverment issues a list of liberals or anybody else to be rounded up for questioning, arrest and detention, what do you propose to do with your assault rifle when six heavily armed infantrymen pour out of a Stryker assault vehicle at your front door? I ask this question seriously, as I have a firearm that is included in the feds list, though it was added after the list was first compiled, and purchased before the original ban was even proposed.


Id rather die defending my rights in my home than rotting in a goverment cage, so if 6 show up....I'll atleasts get 2 or 3 of them and im 100% serious about that and like you I have a few on that list.

Gadzooks!
Then you have crossed a line that I have not. I might add that I live in a state that had a ban on assault weapons before the feds, and it is more restrictive than theirs, with the exception that firearms on the list purchased before the ban can be owned but not transferred.
Max-1
It is important to understand that certain weapons aren't used for casual game hunting. Some weapons are designed to hunt people. Defense weapons don't need to be high caliber multi/rapid fire, especially if you're defending your home against a burglar. Hand guns are good. However auto reload, multi/rapid fire machine guns need to be left to the battle Field.
soon2b
I've often wondered if a political alliance might develop between the NRA and certain liberal factions as a neocon agenda that would probably include a disarmed citizenry unfolds.
sky of mind
Violence in America has long passed the point at which a so called civilized society can accept!

I grew up a member of the NRA.
My Family was NRA, and I possess several NRA Marksman badges!

But I have perminantely dissassociated myself from that organization.
They don't allow room for reality. This is not the 50's anymore, and never ever will be agian!



When some state they would rather die fighting than live in some camp,
I ask them, would they make this decision for their family?
Would they require their child to die with them?

Does Ruby Ridge ring any alarm bells?
Yes, the Govt blew that situation to shit.
But the old man could have ended it at any time,
and his kid would still be alive!




Sorry, but the days of the wild west are history!
There are something we simply do not need in our society,
and somethings that simply out to be illegal!

There is no logical reason that anybody needs to oan an assault riffle,
Or the armor piercing bullets to put in them!


The odds of you needing to defend your home,
is nearly zero compared to how likely some innocent will get killed with it!




If the worst did happen, and they started rounding up liberals,
are you telling me that you wouldn't be able to find what ever you think you need for protection?
Is keeping an assault rifle or 6 in your closet the only solution you can come up with?



BTW.
Having an assault riffle doesn't mean you got bigger balls.
On the contrary!



soon2b
There's a difference in wondering and endorsing. That said it would be a good thing if Republicans lost the support of the NRA.
rexateyfor
Its also important to remember that many people like myself enjoy goign to the gun range and blasting thru a few clips, why must all law abiding citizens be punished becasue some dipshit decided to take an AK-47 to work?

Do any of you actually think gun control prevents automatic weapons from gettign to the streets? If you do your sadly mistake, I purchased my first gun which happened to have been a fully automatic Mac-10 for $50 out of the back of a van when I was 14!!!!

REMEMBER GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE.....PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE and eliminating automatic/semi-auto weapons isnt gonna change the murder rates.

Ive read stories in Florida of people using swords, knives, razor blades, hypodermic needles and even hunting rifles to attack and rob people........all those things are legal.

Does anyone know how difficult is would be to conceile a AK-47? Its not somthign you can put in your shorts and walk into a 7-11, this wont stop crime it will just stop law abiding citizens from owning these firearms

QUOTE
Hand guns are good. However auto reload, multi/rapid fire machine guns need to be left to the battle Field.


When the swat team goes back to handguns I'll belive you

and Sky, my decision to stand and fight rather than rot in a cage was made with my family so thanks for your concern, I do hope when they start filling up these Halliburton Camps that we all know they are building, your comfortable becasue rest assure everyone on this forum is on someones list.
Max-1
Yo Rex,

Then why not have the shooting range possess the rapid shooter and you rent it from them to shoot on their range? That private ownership is relegated to business ownership and they could rent it for range use only. That way the Feds can control their usage easier.

QUOTE
REMEMBER GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE.....PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE
Then 7 year old Johnny that was playing with the gun, who accidental shot his sister/brother/friend is at fault? NOT!
rexateyfor
Why would I want the feds limiting my use? Isnt the point of my background check, my permit and all this other hoops I have to jump thru enough? Maybe you want more goverment in your life but not me.

Can anyone show me how assault weapons cause more crimes than guns not listed on that bill, such as Handguns (which I also own)?

Fact is I like shooting, its a hobby and if I want to do it on my own land or in a gun range aslong as Im not breaking the law why should my right to own any firearm be limited?

So little jonny shoots his friends, what is he more likely to pick up an assault rifle or a handgun?

Have any of you actually been shot at? or Shot? or been a victim of a gun related crime?
Max-1
SAME BUT DIFFERENT:

Then why is it that I must go to the race track to drag race?

Why must my enjoyment of driving fast be limited to a race track?

leftinrightsouth
This is something I have struggled with myself. Not the owning a gun part, because I am personally an ardent pacifist, and would never shoot someone. But, I try to imagine the happy medium. My personal preference would be that no one have guns. Like somehow they disappear from the planet. I am also realistic and understand that's not even a remote possibility. I also know that many people use their guns strictly for food hunting, something I do understand. Now, as far as shooting for sport, it seems kinda silly to me. I don't even particularly see the sport in shooting a target of any sort.

Gadzooks!
"Have any of you actually been shot at? or Shot? or been a victim of a gun related crime?"-Rexateyfor

Do combat related wounds count? If yes, then I have, to all three questions. That is why I have not crossed that line. I notice you didn't ask if anyone had shot and wounded or killed a human being. It's harder to do than to talk about doing, take my word for it.
Max-1
QUOTE(Gadzooks! @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 11:12 am) [snapback]50701[/snapback]

"Have any of you actually been shot at? or Shot? or been a victim of a gun related crime?"-Rexateyfor

Do combat related wounds count? If yes, then I have, to all three questions. That is why I have not crossed that line. I notice you didn't ask if anyone had shot and wounded or killed a human being. It's harder to do than to talk about doing, take my word for it.

clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif
wiretapthisDMW
Well. Once apon a time, when my husband (then boyfriend) was driving over the road...I lived in a quiet, copless, safe little rural community. I didnt like the fact he brought a handgun with him when he moved in; but kept it in the top of his dresser.

One hot summer evening, I'm kinda snoozin on the couch, watchin tv, screen door didnt even have a lock, when this guy just walks in my front door....looked like he was totally drunk, and confused. Said he was lost, I gave him directions, my radar on high...I told him it was time to leave, and he said if I gave him a beer, he would go...and thats when he grabbed me by the arms/shoulders, slammed me into the wall, and said he was going to rape me.

Your mind works amazingly fast in life or death situations, my friends, and this wasn't my first run in with this kind of nut. I played weak victim...said, "I'll do anything ANYTHING you want, Mr....just let me get some protection...I dont want aids or to be pregnant! I'll even put it on for you" He shoved me into the bedroom & said...go ahead whore....I reached into that dresser, came out w/the 357...and said "I'VE GOT PROTECTION NOW MOTHERFUCKER!" He said you wont use that and I put one in the floor by his feet, cocked it again for effect, smiled and said TRY ME!

I then backed him out the door, locked it and called 911. The cops (who i had to argue with to get to come out, the other side of the street had their own force but I would have to wait an hour for a state trooper)
when they finally came, they screamed on me for not making him lie on the floor till they got there. By then disaster averted adrenalin draining I was crying and saying I thought I did pretty fucking good for a 22 yr old woman! I just wanted the bad man GONE!!!!!

I knew in my heart, I would have blown his head apart in that instant...to save my life. (And hyper-adrenal brain even thought about the mess at the time) And now that I have a child, that feeling is doubled for him! Yeah, lifelong pacifist, killer me.

Hunting people BAD. Protecting myself and my family from someone using deadly force GOOD.
Moral of story one:
Until you live it you'll never know what you can do. And guns can be really useful tools.

And like what has been said, if someone came to my door with the intent of killing me or mine, I would and could take as many of the bastards down with me, with hopes my son would get away!

Ps: The other time I was quite young,(14ish) and my friend & I were cross-country skiing thru a little park when a guy came up to us with his pants down & a knife in hand. Us being good little catholic girls who had never even seen a man part froze. We had stopped to have a drink of the pepsi's we brought in our backpack...and there was a rock nearby. My big brother had told me that a bottle would always break if you held it by the neck, like a knife. It did. I held it to his neck & screamed "You will kill me, but you're gonna bleed first! Im ready, are you? ready lets dance" He ran off....then I puked. That memory is kinda fuzzy...but my friend retold it soooo many times. She said I looked crazed & scary...and all I remember is thinkin I wasnt going to let him kill us.

The moral of story 2...when faced w/deadly force a gun isnt always necessary, you will use what you have. But lemme tell you, Id rather have a gun, than a jagged bottle at someone's jugular; in reach of his knife.
Max-1
blink.gif huh.gif blink.gif

Moral of the story,

DON'T FUCK WIT DIANE

see what a simple hand gun can do?
no need for an A-K47 for self defense.
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE(Max-1 @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 12:53 pm) [snapback]50704[/snapback]

blink.gif huh.gif blink.gif

Moral of the story,

DON'T FUCK WIT DIANE

see what a simple hand gun can do?
no need for an A-K47 for self defense.


Thats bs max; one handgun against a large unarmed man, yeah....gimme the AK any time against armed ones. The time may come...when owning one would be life or death to you & yours. (and no im not an NRA-er....at all)

And,PS, I know you were joking, but telling that story is painful. It was a life or death situation. And terrifying. But I did it to illustrate how me, the anti-gun chick, was glad as hell to have a gun when this guy was saying he was gonna rape me & get off while he choked the life outta me. It may open some eyes.
rexateyfor
QUOTE
Thats bs max; one handgun against a large unarmed man, yeah....gimme the AK any time against armed ones. The time may come...when owning one would be life or death to you & yours. (and no im not an NRA-er....at all)

And,PS, I know you were joking, but telling that story is painful. It was a life or death situation. And terrifying. But I did it to illustrate how me, the anti-gun chick, was glad as hell to have a gun when this guy was saying he was gonna rape me & get off while he choked the life outta me. It may open some eyes.



clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif

If you find yourself here in Florida let me know, we'll go shooting!! biggrin.gif
wiretapthisDMW
Believe me in the 20 yrs that have passed since that time, I've learned gun-safety & become a hell of a shot.

Been a while since I've been on a range, I'll have to brush up first, rex wink.gif

sky of mind
QUOTE(wiretapthisDMW @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 12:00 pm) [snapback]50705[/snapback]

Thats bs max; one handgun against a large unarmed man, yeah....gimme the AK any time against armed ones. The time may come...when owning one would be life or death to you & yours. (and no im not an NRA-er....at all)

And,PS, I know you were joking, but telling that story is painful. It was a life or death situation. And terrifying. But I did it to illustrate how me, the anti-gun chick, was glad as hell to have a gun when this guy was saying he was gonna rape me & get off while he choked the life outta me. It may open some eyes.





Don't you spose for household protection purposes,
a semi-automatic shot gun would be much more effective?

Scatter shot means you need not be as accurate in trying moments,
and the shot doesn't travel as far, so innocent people are less likely to be involved.

(Unless yer bird hunting with the VEEP)




BTW,

Most of the rest of the world have various aspects of gun control.
Most of the world considers us the Cowboys!

And here we are in Iraq.



No one see's any connection do they?
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 1:32 pm) [snapback]50712[/snapback]

Don't you spose for household protection purposes,
a semi-automatic shot gun would be much more effective?

Scatter shot means you need not be as accurate in trying moments,
and the shot doesn't travel as far, so innocent people are less likely to be involved.

(Unless yer bird hunting with the VEEP)
BTW,

Most of the rest of the world have various aspects of gun control.
Most of the world considers us the Cowboys!

And here we are in Iraq.
No one see's any connection do they?


Got one. And by god, that thwunk thwak of it cocking is effective in and of itself.

There was a time i totally believed on gun control; now when we are near the age of the Wreaks and Wrecks, I wouldnt mind owning a full auto. Dont have one yet, but have given it serious thought.

This "cowboy" (cowgirl actually) saved her life, by having a gun (that i previously had complained about). Kinda set my mind in a permanent way, no one will ever be able to change. Just like abortion, my dear, if ya dont believe in it dont have one. I'd rather be armed in these times; all the wishes wont make the cruel fact of this violent society & even more violent cabal go away. I hate that part; wish peace would find a way. I dont espouse violent anything, except protection of YOUR OWN by whatever means necessary.

So all the preaching, or making fun of me, won't change my mind. The sick bastard was just grinning and drooling at the thought of choking me to death, while raping me. No rhetoric will ever wash that sick, grimy nasty vision from my mind. It didnt cripple me, but it did harden me. Im positive that I would not act so cautiously if it ever happened again. I'd blow him away.

Thus said, me protecting myself by owning a gun; and linking it to the "reason we're in Iraq" or saying "Dont mess w/ Diane" is both callous and shallow on your parts.

Thats just my choice, and Im not saying YOU should own any. My shoes, my life.
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE(Max-1 @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 11:21 am) [snapback]50694[/snapback]

Yo Rex,
Then 7 year old Johnny that was playing with the gun, who accidental shot his sister/brother/friend is at fault? NOT!


No his asshole parents are, for not teaching him young what NO means. And having them out of his reach until they take him & show him at a range, how loud, scary and deadly they are. I talk to my son all the time about movies and cartoons and tell him real death is ugly and bad, and tell him he can NEVER EVER touch a gun; until he is old enough to take a hunter safety course.


Gonzo Rad
As I told her at the time, the cops were right, she should have dropped him. Never point a gun unless you have full intention of using it.
MasterMind
What is the reason for taking away asault rifles? Because they kill people? If you begin to wipe away things that kill people, where do you stop? What line do you draw? The meer fact we exist means we will die. Nothing will change that, not what we eat, not what we say, not what we believe, not what we know, nothing.


To focus on the things that will kill you in life, you will miss everything that defines what living is.

The issue is not even the guns, its the power they grant and no one wants to give any one the ability to have power over them. So, is it really that some little kid may kill himself or someone else or the fact you are scared shit else of someone having more power then you? Kids die everyday to far more stupid and common things then guns. Contray to popular believe, on the scale of how people die in the world, guns are way down the list.

Do I hear any of you crying out for people dieing of heart disease? Cancer? Strokes? Flu? (yes the flu kills more people then guns) or wait how about accidents?

We have way more important things to worry about then whether some redneck wants to waste $60 on a box of ammo just to piss away.


Unless this really is about the fact that peopel can die from the misuse of guns. Cause if so we gonna have a long night. There are alot more common things that kill people everyday then guns and we ned to get those too!!!!
sky of mind
QUOTE(wiretapthisDMW @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 1:50 pm) [snapback]50721[/snapback]

No his asshole parents are, for not teaching him young what NO means. And having them out of his reach until they take him & show him at a range, how loud, scary and deadly they are. I talk to my son all the time about movies and cartoons and tell him real death is ugly and bad, and tell him he can NEVER EVER touch a gun; until he is old enough to take a hunter safety course.




More accurately, his parents were at fault for not having gun locks on the weapon!
4 year old can and will play with it if found, and they don't know NO!


However, if your weapon has a gun lock on it, it;s not much good if you wake up to and intruder.
Once upon a time I had an old BB gun that had a hollow barrel.
Look very much like a shot gun.

I figured if I were a house thief coming a window and say that in my face,
I wouldn't question if it was real or not!


Now I have a big ol' highly visable upholsteres hammer.
It's big, not heavy, covered with a very bright fabric, and smacks hard!

Someday I'm gonna get me a big ass stun gun! (Not a Taser)
These suckers pack 500,000 to 775,000 volts, and with good contact will take down even the biggest ass hole.
PLUS. You can fire off One Spark!

Big ass Rotweilers stop dead in their tracks and reverse course! (I have seen this in action)
Stun Guns are what the airliners should have instead of pistols.
A hand gun will put holes in things that should not have holes in them, especially at 35,000 feet!

IPB Image
Stun Baton

This is the unit I intend to get because I have played with this baby.
The shaft is electrified too, so your attacker can't grab it away from you!

I swear, for self protection, this sucker is far more effective than a hand gun!
And Non Lethal!

Pop of a single spark just once and you'll be convinced!
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE
More accurately, his parents were at fault for not having gun locks on the weapon!
4 year old can and will play with it if found, and they don't know NO!


4 yr olds do know no, and I said "Keep it up out of their reach" at that age.

A stun gun wont do you shit when your intruder is armed, ....but I guess when you hail from Detroit you know these things. as the saying goes...never bring a knife to a gun fight.
Gadzooks!
Sky, do you know what happens when you pop somebody with one of those babies and he grabs you? Hahaha! Double feature.
sky of mind
QUOTE(wiretapthisDMW @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 7:02 pm) [snapback]50762[/snapback]

4 yr olds do know no, and I said "Keep it up out of their reach" at that age.

A stun gun wont do you shit when your intruder is armed, ....but I guess when you hail from Detroit you know these things. as the saying goes...never bring a knife to a gun fight.






Sorry Tap, but I will never condone a hand gun in the same house with a toddler,
unless it has a trigger lock on it!

Toddlers have a unique ability for finding trouble!





BTW,
I am not anti-gun ownership!
Absolutely not!



I am however for restrictions on Gun ownership.
If we can legally own an assault rifle,
why not a bazooka? To protect my house from the hoards ya know.

How many of us really need a 35 milimeter cannon?
If an assault rifle is ok, why not the 35mm?
rexateyfor
QUOTE
If we can legally own an assault rifle,
why not a bazooka? To protect my house from the hoards ya know.

How many of us really need a 35 milimeter cannon?
If an assault rifle is ok, why not the 35mm?


Ive been saying that for years but I keep getting deneyed at the gun shop for my rocket launcher, I wish the gun shop owner thought as rational as you do.

sky of mind
QUOTE(rexateyfor @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 8:34 pm) [snapback]50805[/snapback]

Ive been saying that for years but I keep getting deneyed at the gun shop for my rocket launcher, I wish the gun shop owner thought as rational as you do.




Your counter sarcasm is almost as effective as the original.


thumbup.gif

Gadzooks!
Ironic, no? One can buy a US-made shoulder-fired rocket launcher on damn near any street corner in the middle east or the African horn for pennies on the dollar, but try and get one right down the street from the factory...
happymisanthropy
Back to Rex's original post, I think it didn't help Kerry that he tried to portray himself as pro-gun but in August he returned to DC for only the second time that year just to vote for the semi-auto ban. It came across as pandering to both sides of the fence and playing gun owners for morons.

Also we know that a few thousand poorly organized irregulars in a country the size of California could never tie down the US military... so the second ammendment is really obselete. Really.

I think that Democrats are often seen as patronizing toward gun owners, as in the whole "we could compromise if YOU were just more reasonable."
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE(rexateyfor @ Monday, 3 April 2006, 9:34 pm) [snapback]50805[/snapback]

Ive been saying that for years but I keep getting deneyed at the gun shop for my rocket launcher, I wish the gun shop owner thought as rational as you do.


hehehe If a rocket launcher was good enough for Hunter S Thompson, you should have one too! LOL
maxanne
I'm an armed pinko. I write an editorial column for a local winger paper, and after 9/11 I recieved threatening mail - including a death threat.

I decided that I wasn't willing to die at the hand of some redneck woodbooger. My son-in-law taught me how to shoot, taught me safety - everything I needed to know. I'll never be a sharpshooter, but I can shoot well enough to protect myself in case some moron decides to come by and play "Deliverance."

I live in a state that has very lax gun laws - and almost no gun crime. I realize that what works in NH isn't working in NY or CA.

I also realize that the polarization around gun issues is bad for the left. The quickest way for us to ever enact sensible gun policies (FAST) would be for all liberals to start stockpiling guns.
sky of mind
again, I have zero issue against gun ownership!

What I rail against is the decision to make military hardware accessable to (nearly) anyone.
A semi-automatic assault rifle can be considered nothing other than military!



rexateyfor
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 4 April 2006, 11:00 pm) [snapback]50996[/snapback]

again, I have zero issue against gun ownership!

What I rail against is the decision to make military hardware accessable to (nearly) anyone.
A semi-automatic assault rifle can be considered nothing other than military!



Removing them from the stores wont remove them from the streets, this past week I read about 4 armed situations that happend around Orlando, 2 with shot guns 1 with a hand gun and 1 with a knife, I dont recall any stories of people using AR-15's to hold up a 7-11 since ive been down here.

Military set ups arent practical, I have mine set up ala Swat Style.

Minus the knife, this looks alot like mine

IPB Image
sky of mind
I'm not a gun expert by any means.
I have no idea what the calabre of the weapon is, but I suspect it's not a large round.

Back when I lived in Montana, hunting was not optional, if you wanted to be a part of the the place.
I owned a remington 7mm bolt action rifle with a nice scope.
I killed two Elk with it in the time I was there.


Lemme tell you, that 7mm packs far more pow than your assault rifle.
For the fun of shooting, shooting that equates to power, a 7mm or 300mag can't hardly be topped.
Tuck that baby it to your shoulder, lay your cheek down close to the stock and sight the scope,
slowly squeeze the trigger and BAM!

If you weren't prepared you have you just been set back on your heals,
and your ears are ringing!

Shoot it 6 times, about all you need to sight it in,
and your ears will ring several days, even with ear plugs!




I recall one dawn, claimbing along a ridge made of shale.
It was one side of a real big natural bowl in the rockies,
the intention was to make noise and scare the Elk out towards the other 4 hunters.
Not only could I have killed my self if I slipped, but in the dawn light,
I could clearly see two rifles spit fire.
I had time to wonder if they were shooting at an Elk, or at me,
before their thunder rolled past me, and echoed off the surrounding mountains.

These big rifles boom. No pop in a real rifle!


IPB Image


Edit to add...




When I shot my first Elk I got so excited.
I had TWO Bulls charge out of a clump of trees right past me and out into the clearing.
I heard their hooves as they ran for several seconds before I saw them,
and they ran past within 50 feet of me.

I was in awe, shocked and stunned. But after they passed me, I wheeled around, chambered a round,
swung the rifle up and fired the first shot! Then chambered a second, got down on one knee,
and fired a second. Then stood up and started running after the animals,
as I ran, I was trying to chamber a third round.
I was running as fast as I could and this wasn't easy to do! Keep an eye on the animal, run and load.
I got it chambered and was looking for the animals in my sights when someone hollared at me
"don't shoot! It's already dead, but hasn't fallen yet."

Darren, by brother in law walked up to me and reached up and took my sun glasses off my face.
One lense was missing and they were bent.
Later I saw my face in the truck mirror and had a nice looking black eye!

But through all the excitement of the moment, I didn't notice a thing.
I had completely forgotten I even had sun glasses on and didn't remember till he pulled them off my face!

I spect I looked pretty redikulus. This hunting newby in the Montana Mountains,
with people who had been weened on this stuff,
standing there with wild eyes and shaking hands trying to load another bullet,
hair sticking out all directions cause my hat fell off some time between the first shot and the run,
wearing bent up shades with one lense sporting a shiner!


Sitting in the truck after we had loaded up the dead Elk, Darren asked me....
"See, that's better than sex isn't it?" I looked at him and said....

"Sorry bud, but Nothin's better than good sex!"




Seems I'd never be anything but an inlaw from some other planet!
MasterMind
Have we forgotten that the only people who follows these kind of laws, are honest people? If a criminal wants a gun, he can get one cheaper then common market and faster, so why would he even bother to register his AK-47 or even his .3006?

I have tried and tried to own a gun, but they have told me I am not allowed to own one. I still continue this struggle, but do you honestly think that everyone will go threw this hoops just so the government knows who has what gun? How about just the guy who plans to take something of yours later? Think he registered his gun?

A law like this only disarms honest people, plain and simple.
sky of mind
I guess then that since only honest drivers follow the laws,
we might as well abolish all legal rules of the road?
rexateyfor
QUOTE
A law like this only disarms honest people, plain and simple.


clap.gif
sky of mind
Again, not asking anyone to disarm!




I'm asking them to accept limits.


You can do it and it does make a differance.
Car companies once said they couldn't put seatbelts in cars,
that it would cost too much and besides,
people wouldn't use them.



Could you today imagine a car without seatbelts?


Why do we care about the Meth problem?
After all, honest people don't do meth!
soon2b
QUOTE(MasterMind @ Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 10:56 am) [snapback]51041[/snapback]


I have tried and tried to own a gun, but they have told me I am not allowed to own one.
.


Uh, why not? eek.gif
wiretapthisDMW
An armed society is a polite society.

Everyone should probably carry street sweepers. Heh, heh; and cars should have nice little mounted missles on them. Lot less people would cut you off then!! tongue.gif
rexateyfor
QUOTE
You can do it and it does make a differance.
Car companies once said they couldn't put seatbelts in cars,
that it would cost too much and besides,
people wouldn't use them.



Could you today imagine a car without seatbelts?


Yes I can imagine cars without seatbelts, hell I remember when we werent forced to wear them because someone got a hair across their ass and decided they could make the choice to wear a seatbelt for everyone.

Kinda like this gun debate, a few people making the choice for the rest of us.
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE(soon2b @ Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 9:18 am) [snapback]51056[/snapback]

Uh, why not? eek.gif


hahahaha; kinda wondered that myself, sooner! I mean if they registered them to us...???

<<scratchin head, sayin hmmmmmmmmmmmm>>


QUOTE(rexateyfor @ Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 9:23 am) [snapback]51059[/snapback]

Yes I can imagine cars without seatbelts, hell I remember when we werent forced to wear them because someone got a hair across their ass and decided they could make the choice to wear a seatbelt for everyone.

Kinda like this gun debate, a few people making the choice for the rest of us.


How did we all survive in the front seat, no seatbelts, no helmets on bicycles, sharing drinks with our friends;
and when accidents were accidents, not lawsuits???

Brought to you by the "getting da gub'mint outta yo life" Hee Haw club of the Conservatives!!!

They think for us; we all just "Yessah massah"


MasterMind
QUOTE
Uh, why not? eek.gif



I am not totally sure why. They refuse to process my application, so I cant appeal it to find out why. It is very legal how they are doing it. In NC the sherriff has the right to refuse to process anyones gun permit on morale and character values. Well guess what, The sherrif here thinks I am not morally sound enough to own a gun.

Geee I wonder why.


Side Note-

Sky, I never said you did say totally disarm.

QUOTE
Your counter sarcasm is almost as effective as the original.


Way to keep things professional and not personal Sky.
sky of mind
QUOTE(wiretapthisDMW @ Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 8:29 am) [snapback]51060[/snapback]

hahahaha; kinda wondered that myself, sooner! I mean if they registered them to us...???

<<scratchin head, sayin hmmmmmmmmmmmm>>
How did we all survive in the front seat, no seatbelts, no helmets on bicycles, sharing drinks with our friends;
and when accidents were accidents, not lawsuits???

Brought to you by the "getting da gub'mint outta yo life" Hee Haw club of the Conservatives!!!

They think for us; we all just "Yessah massah"




True enough,
and as long as the person killed wasn't anyone you knew,
(shrug)
wiretapthisDMW
QUOTE
An armed society is a polite society.

Everyone should probably carry street sweepers. Heh, heh; and cars should have nice little mounted missles on them. Lot less people would cut you off then!!


Hey sky.....



QUOTE
True enough,
and as long as the person killed wasn't anyone you knew,
(shrug)


A lot of people I know desperately deserve it LMAO laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

And Im sure in said scenario I would need to wear body armor myself! eek.gif tongue.gif eek.gif

jokin kids, jokin.....

rexateyfor
QUOTE
And Im sure in said scenario I would need to wear body armor myself!


Body armor wouldnt have helped JFK.....come to think of it an assault weapons ban wouldnt have helped either
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.