I just wanted to share this. Last night I got my weekly telephone solicitation for funds for the DNC . I once donated 25 bucks and have since recieved at least twice as much money's worth of mailings and long distance phone calls. But let me set the scene before I tell you about the phone call...

A week ago I got my survey asking me what issues are most important to me. I'm supposed to rate them in order of 1-10 in importance, so the dems know what to focus on. Lots of good issues to choose from: healthcare, defense, the usual buzz words. Only one thing was missing: election reform. Not a single mention of electronic paperless e-voting machines, not a mention of eliminating Secretaries of State doubling as campaign managers. No talk of renewing the Voting Rights act. Now that royally pissed me off. I've f*cking had it with these people.

About a week before this, I received a letter from the DNC asking for another donation. One paragraph stuck out. For two reasons: It was the only paragraph not asking for money. But also, because of what it said:



"Together, we will"? "Together, we will"?
What the heck have they been doing? I'm smart enough to know that we have to tackle the big issues of voting integrity and restoring our voice in the media by reinstating the Fairness Doctrine and repealing the 1996 Telecom Act. Why the hell can't you? You can talk pretty about the issues until you are blue in the face, but if the media won't carry it, or worse, will purposely misrepresent it, you are wasting your breath. You can gather the support of the entire country, but if corrupt politicians are managing the vote counts with machines that are designed specifically to provide no proof of the votes cast, elections aren't worth the paper they (are not) printed on. But I digress. On to the phone call...


So it starts in the usual manner.

"Mr. **********, first let me thank you for your recent contribution... [blah blah blah.] Let me just get to the point, I'm at the end of my long day and I'm sure you are at the end of your long day. We're asking for your financial support to help us...

I butted in.

"Actually sir, let me respectfully interrupt you and help shorten your long day of working the phones. I recently received my survey from the DNC where I was supposed to rank the most important issues facing us. Nowhere on that survey was electronic voting or electoral reform mentioned. I'm not send ing a single dollar to the DNC until I see that as a priority, and quite frankly I want my 25 dollars back.

His response:

"Well sir, I know just today something came out from the democratic party about election reform... *shuffles some papers* Hold on a second here and let me see if I can find it..."

It was obvious to me that he was shuffling through his talking points to find the correct response.
"Sir, I run the Project for the Old American Century and the biggest part of my job is to monitor the media. I know fully well that the democrats didn't release anything today and i also know what little they have done to do anything about this problem. You and I both know that the 2000 election, the mid terms, and the 2004 elections were stolen. And I see next to nothing being done about it."

"Well we have John Conyers".

"Yeah, we do. And he's been doing great things for decades. But where's the party wide support. Where's the organizing around this. Nobody even knows about the Conyers Report."

Now he seems to have either failed to find the correct talking point, or just settled on the next best thing...

"Mr. Templeton, being a single issue voter is stupid. You have to look at the big picture to fight the republicans"

"Voting integrity is the big picture. I can vote on a thousand different issues, but if my vote isn't counted, it doesn't matter what I voted for.

Well, he didn't like that at all. He started raising his voice and was clearly angry. "How long have you been a democrat?" I guess he thoght he'd try the democratic version of questioning my patriotism or party loyalty.

"Since I've read the PATRIOT ACT and the Homeland Security Bill".

Now he's stumped and completely loses his cool. He's shouting now. "You have to look at the big picture! The democrats are fighting all kinds of issues! It's absolutley stupid to be a single issue voter!!!"

Back to that single issue bullsh*t. That must have been the talking point that he settled on. Because they sure as hell don't have one to serve as an excuse for doing nothing about election reform, aside from Well yeah, but we have Conyers..

Now he's literally screaming into the phone so loudly that my wife can hear him in the other room. i just chose to hang up.

Guess what party has permanently lost my support.

I am kicking my Repub membership once and for all too. I do not think a "retake" of the party will work. They have infested every level of it I think. Wonder what it takes to start a national politcal party.

I'm thinking the "Capitalist worker's party" has a nice ring to it.

Good points, TJ. The electronig voting issue is a very real problem, and unless it's corrected, the 2006 "elections" will just be the same old story. The ELECTIONS forum is full of discussions about it here at the POAC.

What do you mean, "too," MM?

Is TJ a REPUB who doesn't want to be one anymore?

I think he means he's not going to support the mainstream Democrats as their agenda stands right now.

Catherine

A sad and honest tale.

The right wing and the left wing are two different wings of the same diseased bird.

I'm shocked that they didn't include an other-please explain option on the form.

And the phone solicitor didn't even want to make a note that you felt that vote reform is at least your big issue? Now that just reveals his shallowness and lack of coaching from his manager. You could have asked him, "So sir, how progressive is it, as a Democratic member like yourself, to wave off a fellow party member's concern on a real, under reported issue that potentially will, once again, affect this years election due to the form of dismissal that your showing just now? How progressive is it? If progressive means to bring to light real issues that affect us all so that change can be effective?"

TJ,
You are right.

Voting IS the big picture.

We can all vote for an issue, but if our votes aren't counted properly or at all, what does it matter in the end?

Keep up the great work. It certainly isn't lost on us.

I was very disappointed to learn that Karl Schwarz had decided not to run for President in 2008 under the Unification Party.

http://www.karlschwarz.com/

Here's the announcement that he's withdrawing as of December, 2005: http://www.karlschwarz2008.com/

If there was a man who could give the two party system a real challenge, it would've been Karl Schwarz. I don't know why he decided to withdraw. It had to be something pretty major.

Catherine

OH, PULEEZE...I can't stop laughing....

Catherine

Cat, I ment too, as in we are both casting aside our politcal parties. The action itself, not what was tosed. See what I mean?

These are all very good issues, and I can't argue with a single aspect.
I can't and I won't, except to ask three questions.....



1) Are you going to Vote in November? Or will you not vote because it doesn't matter how you vote, it's a done deal?

2) If the position has two names, one is R and one is D, which one will you vote for?

3) If the ballot as 3 names, are you willing to voe for the one that is not R or D, knowing every vote not D helps R?





I grant you the person to whom TJ spoke with is a jerk, and they may well train them to be jerks.
I don't know and though I do care, for this moment it's irrelevant!

My first priority is that the Republicans must be removed from political control,
and there is no other way to do this than what I have mentioned.

If I am wrong, please explain to me how we can do otherwise and have a reasonable expectation of Defeating the Republicans?



Electing the democrat is NOT a solution!
It's only a step in the right direction!

Any step not in the right direction,
most likely will come with very serious consequences.
If you thought Pat Act one was bad, and Pat Act II was worse,
wait for Pat Act III, one backed by a Neo-con dominated and controlled SCOTUS.

Clarify please.

What direction are you alluding to?

I'm voting for the Green party candidate, not Cantwell and not the Repub.

Cantwell lost my vote when she sold my right with her supporting vote for the P.A.II

And the Repub. replacement, is no better than her. But one worse: A REPUBLICAN.

It is far more important for my voice be heard on the hill. Any Senator and House Rep. by definition and job description, must be a voice of the people that they represent. Not a voice for their party or agenda, such as we have now.

I think we should hold a massive protest that this 06 all votes have a paper trail.

As to your direct questions....

1) Yes. I am a fool for hope.

2) I dont really look at party afflitions when it comes to my vote. I vote on the person and what they stand for. But I will be honest and say this year I am paying more attention to the Democrats then the Republicans and I am paying extra attention to people who stand up about what is really going on and what they are gonig to do about it. I am movers and shakers, not fat bastards who vote like robots.

3) I dont care enough about ether party to say whether I would care if the other one existed or not. They eat from the same trough, look the same, say the same crap, and even react to events to same predictable way, so they must be the same beast.

Now Sky, answer me this.

Are you willing to vote D no matter what, knowing how much Democracy it will cost America? How much Sectionalism it is and how this very thing lead us to where we are now?

Also, the Republicans have a much tougher problem with sing votersthis 06 then Democrats do. How many Democrats jumping ship, versus Republicans jumping ship do you think there will be? A third party vote in these coming elections will play far more havoc on the Republican vote then any Democrat vote.

Oh and Sky, just the fact they will be replacing the shit that currently holds office, does not mean they are automaticly better. Just look who followed Ceaser.

The FIRST STEP, is to remove the Republicans from every corner of US Politics.
They can come back later after the Neo-cons have been cleaned from the system.
Today one must assume that if you are a Republican, you are also a Neo-con.

After the removal of this huge and intractable power structutre,
a power structure designed and intended to restructure American politics
to fascilitate their greater aspirations for a New World Order!

Imagine Germany in the late early 1930's.
We need to remove the Nazi's before it's too late!
The political structure in Germany in the 20's was in bad shape,
that's what the Nazi's deliberately used to create an environment they could grow in!
And they did, just as these neo-cons have taken control of the Republican party,
and through the conservative movement, which includes several fronts,
have begun the process of restructuring the American political system. (and are well into it)

After it happens that somehow the Republicans are removed from the wheel house,
then all cards can be back on the table.
Then we can persue any form of rebuilding or reformation we (the american people) choose to persue.

But, if we do NOT remove the Rethug machine, nothing else matters!
Even with election reforms, if you do not remove the Corrupt Republican Party from control,
we simply will not be allowed to progress anywhere the Rulling Republican party does not want us to progress!


Hells bells! The whole Diebold voting scandal issue, IS A REPUBLICAN ISSUE,
and is nothing more than symptomatic of the greater disease!


Yes, the credibility of the election process is extremely important,
and is directly being addressed primarily on the local level,
and Yes, the Democratic party outta be all over this.
No argument what so ever!


Patience and persistance, and
Priorities!


It will do no good to vote for the Green candidate.
That's a protest vote, and will be a wasted vote.

In this country, unfortunately, there are only 2 main parties, (and a few also rans)
You and I are informed enough to know that the Green party candidate may well be the better choice!
But that don't mean shit to your average voter!

Your average voter is still just as stupid as they were in 04 and 00.
Your average Voter is still a sheeple!
Your average voter gets 99% of their political information from the MSM.
The MSM only deals with two parties!

Which one are YOU gonna vote for?


Any voter who votes, that does not Vote for the Democrat,
is either Voting for the Republican, or voting for the Republican by default!

Understand, that in many cases I would MUCH rather NOT vote for the Democrat.
But, one thing over rides my personal values!
And that is that in every single case, the Republican is Worse!

On the big picture, Reality trumps ideals every single time.
Vote your ideals, and the bad guys win. It's just that simple.



If the Republicans manage to maintain their death grip on the American political system,
it will be in part because of the Republican power system, that includes Diebold,
and it will be because the American people decided to let it be so!

If the American people do not decide to fight the Cancer that is today about to engulf the American Political system,
Your ideals, no matter how informed and rightious they may be, will not be worth squat!
In fact, they could be your liability! You'll be who they come for first!

I'll vote the same way I always have: look at their voting history and who funds them. Regardless of party affiliation.

Sky, you are a sectionalist, which is my book is the same as a rascist. Your words are similar to those that have started Civil Wars, in this very country. Have can you just make a blanket statement like that about a whole entire people, just because of the actions of a few? You can say well they are enablers, but what did you do to stop those few? Did you stand in front of any tank before it brought war?

]

That is because the Democrats have done nothing to stop it!! NOTHING! Not a damn fucking thing.



Listen to that Hate. What about feeding people and getting medicine for the sick? What about jobs for the unemployed? What about shit that fucknig does really matter, instead of this lame ass soap opera that has become American Politics.

No, longer should we trust those up on Government hill right now. We need to take back our government and insure the policy makers have the people's best intrest in mind and not those of the corporate world.

Teeeej!!!!!!

Actually I got the same call the other night; but I guess I got a less-evolved version of their call-bots.

By the time I was done talking to the young lady, I had her asking questions. I let her know I get my media information here, as well as other non mainstream sources...(it sounded like she wrote down a couple I had to repeat "just google POAC...for that matter look up PNAC; see what we're up against!")

I told her I was a political activist who actually tracked the voting records of my representatives in Washington, and asked if she did. I asked her how her people voted on the Pat Act...

silence

I asked her whether or not any or all of the people she was raising funds for backed our Conyers?

"I'm not sure..."

I asked if she knew whether or not Michigan was going to continue to have paper ballots (they are)

silence

I said until MY Party stood up on its hind legs, and started not acting like Republican-lights; that they wouldn't get a penny of my money, and told her I only donate on-line to actual individual candidates who actually support what I believe in.

She answered "Wow, sounds like your really informed and beneficial to the party; Thanks for all the info! Thanks for your support! Have a great night"

I was holding the phone out so my husband could hear....we laughed & laughed....He said "You really shouldn't eat those poor little interns for lunch, Diane!" My reply..."If she looks up even one thing I told her about...Worth IT!!!"

good to find kindred spirits here.....

Indeed

Nice Wire!! Nice!

The worst part is she was Pro-party, but Ignorant of the details!!!!!!

Must be one of Sky's foot soldiers.

Sky,
Voting out a Republican to all but replace them with a Republican-lite(aka. moderate Dem) is not the change that you think it is. Take our state, Washington. Cantwell is a Republican-lite. I don't care if she says she's a Dem. She votes with the Republicans down the line, practically per vote item. How is that change? Then you have to put up another 6 years of her Repub-lite vote. All just to struggle, ONCE AGAIN, to oust the dead wood.

HELLO?!?!?!?!

My head starts to bleed after the first hit.

How many can you take???

That's an unkind, unfair and stupid statement MM.
You continue to say things that lose my respect.
Why do I have to be your enemy?











Damn, I say it over and over, and you still only pick out bits and pieces.
I am anti-republican because the Republicans have proven them selves to be both corrupt and innept!
There may well be a few worthy Republicans, but as a whole, the Republican party structure is corrupt!

How many tanks have you confronted MM?? Sheesh!




The Democrats include every single voice that is actively working against these things you rail against.
In the last quote you accume me of generalizing the entire party. What the fuck?



Holy shit! It's not about hate!
Lemme rephrase. I do not hate any person, but I DO HATE their Neocon policies!
I HATE the reasons we went to war in Iraq!
I Hate the responce to Katrina!
I Hate that 9/11 was not fully investigated!

Ya know MM, you and I really are on different planets!




I do not disagree with this, however, its just fucking words!Voting for the Green man
WILL NOT MAKE IT HAPPEN!

MM,

You and I are unable to communicate.
We are speaking different languages.

Because of this reality,
I am NOT gonna be drawn into your crap.



I do not agree with TJ,
and have deliberately not taken issue with his statements.
This is his board, and other than a few issues, he's earned my respect.
That respect in it's self is a larg part of why I am here.

You, I can't say the same.
To me you are offensive.




Mr devisive.

Isn't it nice to make such an impact on the uninformed?

Scary thing is that these tools that are working hard for the party, . . .
. . . so hard for the party,(imagine Jennifer Beals running in place),
yet not informed of the scope of the truth out there.
All for the knowing with our good friend google.

Good job Diane,
You know you had an impact with that tool as your ability to tell her NO WAY resulted in her profusly thanking you for your help and information.

Sorta like how the Reps have run the Hill.
"Bend 'em over and make them thank you for it in the end."

Agreed, but given a choice, democrat dead wood or Republican dead wood,
which would you prefer?

I guarantee no Green party member will win a national position in the 2006 election.
Not with out something happening that there hasn't yet been even a shadow of.
That being, strong natinal exposure.

Nader had a Ghost of a chancem because the sheeple knew his name!
Ahnald won in Calif, NOT because he was good.



There are more Progressive Democrats than there are Progressive Republicans, yes???
So which party should be in charge, for the short term?

If you like how things are right now,
do not vote for the Democrat.


The Primaries are the exception!
That is your last chance Before the mid terms to vote your ideals
and it won't condenm the country should your ideals not be realistic.



Oh, and about Cantwell,
Look at her Republican November counter part.
I'm sure he's a real winner in your book!

Thanks, I did feel really good about it after. Kept my money & open some eyes!

I do think, generally the Dem's in my area are wayyyy better than the repug's....but hers was blind faith...she should know WHY she backs them. A lot of people are from the auto industry here, and they're union-oriented. They blindly vote "D" thinking they are doing the right thing. And lets face it, you really cant stray too far afield in Michigan & not have the union's wrath. (Although in a side-bar, they are trying desperately to kill the unions here:: see what they are doing with GM/Delphi) Conyers is a good man. And Granholm gets a bad rap for inheriting the previous administration's debt. But crap, the caller didnt know anything about votes or voting records.

Alrighty. I spend a wonderful day outside and stop to check on you guys before taking a shower and look what I see!!!


Tj,

You are absolutely correct. Supporting a party to support a party isn't going to help anyone.

Tap,

Great job getting the word out. I actually got a very loyal repub to google PNAC the other day, and he called me yesterday and said he's spent the last two days following all that it leads to. He's freaked out and mad and its so great.

Everyone!
We have really got to remember what our goals are, to spread the word and to stop the growth of the new world order, in whatever shape and party affiliation it may come in. all this other arguing and fighting amongst the group isn't going to help a thing.

You're talking to us DIRTY???!!!??? LOL take the shower already we dont need no dirty talk!

Wait! Lemme give her my number.

Sky,
I must also add this bit of info...

Each Thursday pm, my local pbs station hosts a local government talk show, WITH LIVE CALL IN QUESTIONS.

KCTS Connects. LiNk

This last Thurs. was about the US Senate race. Mike McGavik and Aaron Dixon on at sepperate times.

I was privledged enough to get through and ask Mike McGavik a question. A guicy question at that.

During his intro and pre-questioning, he iterated that the partisan politics must come to an end if there is going to be change on the Hill.

Taking his que, my question:
Hello Mike, it is nice to be able to talk to you. I am glad to hear that you recognize the need to drop partisan poilitcs so as in order to affect change. My concern is of accountability and especially the accountability of the Executive Branch. My question for you, Mike, is what is your position in regards to the Resolution brought forth by Sen Feingold to Censure the president over the wiretapping?

His answer:
Sen. Feingold is wrong in attempting to censure the president during a time of war. yada yada yada....

He's a talking head Sky.
A TALKING HEAD.

If you get KCTS, the show re-airs on Sunday, 04/02/06 at 12:00pm.

sky said:

I'm at a loss to understand how voting for Democrats is a step in the right direction. The Democrats did not oppose Patriot Act 1 or 2. The Democrats barely whimpered over the last 2 nominees to the Supreme Court.




That is flat out bullshit. As long as ballots are counted in secret in this country, we don't have a democracy. And the Democrats you bluster about have done NOTHING to protect our voting rights.



Horseshit. This is the same crap I heard in 2004 about Kerry. I was told I OWED him my vote. That kind of fascistic logic is just what the Republicans use to keep their faithful in lockstep. A vote for Kerry was a vote saying,"I will accept the worst possible candidate the Democratic Party could possibly nominate, and I will vote for him/her anyway - so don't bother to put up anyone with a spine." In fact, that kind of crap is incredibly belligerent and divisive. Screw you, pal. It' s MY VOTE and you don't get to tell me what to do with it. How dare you spout off about Hitler, while having the audacity to say something like this??



Oh, spare me the high drama. You think the spineless Democrats are going to do anything to save anyone??
Have the Democrats said a word about the detention centers in the US that Halliburton has the contract to build? You think the Democrats are going to keep anyone from coming after you or me? They can't even take a stand to protect our ballots.

I have some beachfront property near Mt. Washington in NH to sell you.

As long as we accept the unacceptable - we will continue to have it served to us - GOP or DEM.

EXACTLY

As you can see, Cantwells Republican challenger is a piece of work!
Not worth crossing the road for.

The Green Candidate looks truly worthwhile and quite interesting.
However, and you must agree, not many sheeple have a clue,
and those that do, will still vote for one of the big two,
and of those, most like for the name they are most familier with!


Familiarity brings comfort and a feeling of security.
Ahnold depended on it to win.
(That same aspect, will keep him from winning again!)


You and I would give the Green Candidate a true shot.
Your average voter will not!

You live in Washington,
what do you think your average voter in say,
Spokane, or Wenachee, or Yakama or Kenniwick thinks about your Green Candidate?

Cantwell may not be your best option.
But which option would be your best, that could actually win?
This is important, when the last choice is so terribly bad!

That is your reality -vs- ideals dilema.



Some of you seem to consider this to be nothing more than party politics.
And for those of you who do,
clearly you have missed the meaning and intent of my argument!
(Do not accuse me of not paying attention, or of not hearing what you have to say.)

I feel your pain , TJ. It's like when we go to the grocery store "Ma'am, excuse me do you want paper or plastic?" Well, now they are acting like we want the same choice in voting ballots> "Do you want paper or cyber?" I wonder who would say "I want to wait 4 hours in line and vote on a cyber machine that might not count me at all, or even flip my vote for the other side which would even be worse than not counting my vote at all."

You raise some good points Sky.

I asked my question specifically the way I did so as to highlight to the public, his rhetoric about partisan politics is reflective to how he and his party continues to respond. That if he wasn't partisan and actually walked his walk, he wouldn't have gone down the Republican Mighty Righty high road and attacked the concept of accountability. See, accountability isn't a partisan issue. It is a constitutional issue.

He did take the standard Republican stance of suggesting that legalizing the illegal actions of the Commander in Chief during a time of war is necessary so as the Leader can continue to break the law, legally. Pure BS on our PBS. You really should try to see it if you can.

I asked a question about the accountability of the president, in considerations of non-partisanship and how he felt about the Feingold Resolution. Not, did he support the resolution? I attempted to stay as neutral as possible. He went hard line Republican on his answer. I can only hope that others that saw it, saw it.

Now, it is interesting that you bring up Dixon's chances throughout the entire state. I was born in Spokane and grew up there, 22 years spent there. Sketchy to say best. McGavik's draw is from that side of the state. If you've seen his ads, skateboarding as a youth...HA! The dude is over 50. Skateboards as a youth in his days were huge banana boards with concrete wheels. My older brothers, of ten years, and I'm 42, had just that in their youth. And McGavik's big radical point? He crashed his board through a neighbors window. OOOOH-AAAAH That's about the speed of Eastern Wa. But then again, they only count for about 20% of the population, too.

And Dixon's big radical moment? Black Panther Founder, Seattle Chapter. Hello?!?!?!? Civil Rights. He was the co-sponsor of the 3 year ant-war march in Seattle, and then again in Tacoma. His message? Fight war and end racism. He opposes the P.A.II, the war in Iraq, and supports Impeachment. He sees the current administration as corrupt, immoral, and illegal. Most of Western Wa. agrees to a certain extent. The only problem, AIR TIME. McGavik runs ads on T.V. cuz his party has $$$$$ Dixon's party is bone poor.

The Green party has an additional weight to carry, besides being part of a dirt poor party.
The greens are in general, unknown!
People rarely vote for an unknown, no matter how well qualified they are.
And even if they have never heard of the candidate, they did hear if they were a democrat or a republican.
Those names are familier!

Hell, sheeple will pick a name because they once knew someone with that name,
and they either liked or didn't like that other person!



By the way, I also had one of those old skateboards.
Didn't even know that was a banana board on concrete wheels.
To us a skateboard was an extension of a gravity go-cart made using old skates!

Mostly we rode the sidewalk, straight down hill with only one intention.
To go as fast as we could and not get killed!
The standard position on the board was NOT standing up.

Usually a pair of shoes lasted about a week!
Saw lots of kids with no heals on their shoes, or the sole all but gone.

And then again,
AVOID ROCKS AT ALL COSTS.
Even the smallest pebbles.
Whoopsy ~CRASH~

I'll admit it, I've done that in my uneducated past.
I WUZ A SHEEPLE.

MM, I know what you mean, because I've tossed both in the past , first the Dem Party (I felt they left me , not me left them, when they decided it was ok to abort unborn millions for any choice, pretty much against my philosopshy of what the spirit of the Bill of Righs and Civil Rights I used to love Dem Party for in the 60's) and then I tossed Repub Party when the Neocons reared its ugly snake-head as abusing religion to go to war (again, I felt they left me, not me left them). When I grew up, everybody after JFK pretty much seemed like the lesser of two evils to me , except Jimmy Carter. I still think Jimmy Carter is one of the greatest statesmen and best humanitarians in the world today.

I will always consider "tossing" parties as my power to vote as much as my actual vote itself... in fact "tossing" has empowered me more than actual voting sometimes! It frees me up from political party-lines and makes me feel more like a free American than a loyal partisan does.

Here is the question Sky.

If Kerry had won in 2004, knowing all the connections there are between him and Bush, would things be different today? Would we be compling about Neo-Cons or Neo-Liberals? Have you forgotten these guys change "allies" like they change suits? If you are going to burn the whole Republican party because they were fooled into being used, then look in the mirror buddy and burn a few Democrats, maybe all of them too. I mean besides one or two (even you said there are a few good Republicans) who did stand up for us, none of the others have, so fuck them too. Unless you have proof that more then a handful of Democrats have been an actual opposition party?

Who else here does not understand this guys are not tied to one or even two politcal parties? They have even gone beyond "partisan" parts of government. Every last person that works in my local government, that includes DSS, HD, DOT, Courthouse, Police, Judges, etc...not just in voted positions anymore, support the current adminstration. It would take alot more then Democrats controling the House or Senate for them to change their ways.

Do you not realize Sky, that when you say get ride of all Republicans, you are saying get ride of whole states. No just people in office now, but all the people that voted for them and the people that support them. What about them and their voice Sky? Or you just dont care because you know with out a shadow of a doubt they are wrong and you are right?


You say we are speaking two different languages, but I understand you completely Sky. There is no confusion on my part, only yours. I just disgree with you, but your "Vote Party Live" brain cant grasb that and you seem to think I dont Understand for "brilliant" plan of being a lemming.


Oh and Sky, look up what anti means, because you claim to be anti-Republican. Just so you understand what that title signifies to others what you wish to convey.




Exactly Sky, and you are helping that along by telling people to vote party line, instead of looking at the issues. You want to turn the whole Democrat party into the Republican party.

I know your full plan now.

This is what we feel is wrong with America Sky, most of the Progressives on this board. People voting because of a title or a name. You just brought hard line into focus your own brainwashed mind how indpeth the class system goes. Vote by title, what next, vote by income? No wait, vote by Religion! Oh wait....Damn Sky, thanks for beening an enabler in this wonderful Fasicst State we live in.

been here, done this, been round and round this block too many times with the same people.

I have never asked you the question about Kerry before Sky, nor you come up with any reason for hating Republicans, beyond the are infested with Neo-Cons.

Nice way to avoid the real questions Sky. Bravo.


Also you provided no proof to disprove my statement otherwise, so that must mean it is true, correct? Or do you want to other proof that your versus will work?

You want me,
dontcha MM?

Yes I do Sky, I just cant resist your alluring ways! Oh please take me!

I can't right now.

I'm busy playing hard to get!

I know, its working so well.

The more things change....

You boys are still going at it with this?

I've learned that Sky's views and mine simply cannot co-exist, and there is no point slamming our heads together about it.

Let's try to play nicey-nice here.

SSHHhhhhhh! Sky is playing hard to get.

I agree with Scorp on this issue.
It's not about a lack of respect.
It's simply differing views and opinions.


Others though seem to make effort for confrontation.



Though I realize that such an attempt with the "gotcha"
only works if I decide to let it!

(ain't I just a pisser?)

I was being serious.

I diagree.

Oh wait and hold the phone. Sky, you think because I express my opinion I am looking for confrotation? Damn Sky, you are more brainwashed then I thought.

Someone clean his brain out!