Here's what I am doing, what I am working towards:

I am actively saving to move from the repressive state I live in.
I am raising my son to think.
I am not driving a gas-guzzling SUV, truck or sports car.
I grow as much of my own food as I possibly can and share anything I have with anyone who needs or wants it.
I am remaining as informed as I can, seeking the truth by any means I can.
I do not listen to regurgitated, filtered and manipulated news from the MSM.
I share all new knowledge I gain with anyone willing to learn.
I attempt to broach subjects that are taboo.
I stand up for myself and others when no one else will.
I work everyday to better understand how the government really works and to figure out how to get it back to how its supposed to work.
I do not bow to the constant pressure from those around me to conform.

What I want:
I want to live in a country that respects human life.
I want to live in a country that respects privacy, speech and press.
I want to live in a country that does not strike in pre-emptive wars.
I want to have enough to feed, clothe, house and teach my son.
I want to share anything I have with anyone who needs it.

I plan:
To move somewhere that my progressive ideas will be of use and helpful to others.
To continue to be informed and to vote my conscience.
To help make my world a better place everyday in everyway that I can.
To never become greedy.
To become less dependant on money.


While you may read these things and laugh at their simplicity, I believe that continuing to do them and work towards them will influence those around me, and the ripple will spread. I have little effect on the things in Washington, but I can certainly effect the people I cross paths with and in reality this is the only VIABLE way to change anything.

Do you have plans? Goals?
What do you do to make the things you want a reality?

We are so separated by the space of the internet that I think we forget how close we are in what we want. We need to, as a group, do something to make a difference.

I'm gonna say this again publicly
only this time more directly.

I like Lefty, she's a good person doing her damdest to do the best she can.
I may not always agree with her, but I always respect her!

I think you would like the North West Lefty.
I have lived in the mountains just off the continental divide,
and I have lived in Paradise.
I came back home.

Though there is lotsa of good country out there.



I like your plans.
I hope you get every dream answered.

You sound like me.

Although I live in a non repressive state,
Haven't owned a car for going on three years now, and
Do listen to MSN, Faux, SeeNN, SeeBS, ABSee, NBSee, and PBS.
Why???
So I know what they are saying and can understand their rhetoric. This allows me to hold the apple in one hand and the orange in the other hand and COMPARE the differences. Every once in a while, the LIE NETWORKS do speak a truth or two.

And like you,
I want my America back.
When the DREAM was about
Freedom and liberty,
Not safety and security.

Your plan is a great way of living.
Simplicity is far easier to manage than elitism.
Granted, money brings a lot of fun & stuff,
But it also requires a responsibility to it.
That is to say,
If you want PRETTY its gonna cost you a pretty penny . . .
If you want HUGE, its gonna cost you a huge amount . . .
If you want LUXURIOUS, its gonna cost an exorbitant amount . . .
OF SLAVE TIME.



As for me,
I'm growing more aware of what is actually being said and done on your's, mine and our dime.
When politicians speak, I listen for their inconsistencies.
I continue to challenge those that choose to opt out. Silence = Death.

I would welcome you to Cascadia,
But we're filled with progressive here.
Not that there isn't room for more.
On the contrary,
Progressives provide progress
In depressed Democracies.

It should be I and Sky that move to Texas and show them what Democracy actually looks like.

It's a nice idea, but I couldn't handle that much persistant angst!

We'll just ask then to pray for us.

My solution is simple. Get ride of our current "masters". Nothing else will work.

They own the Media, they own our Goverment, they own our Culture, they own our Religions, they own our Politics, they even own the machines we vote on? Come on American wake up.

If we do not stand now, when will we? Pick an action that would cause you to do such and let me prepare for it, because I know it will come.

That's a good start.
Now how do we do this?

You can not be that naive Sky. If you are, then you dont need to be asking that kind of question, son.

It's not my plan.
This is yours.

How do you propose we make this happen?

Sky, you are not longer allowed to ask me questions. I do not wish to disucss things with someone who can not grasp the obvious method of breaking the chains that bind us. It would be a waste of mine and their time.


From this moment on. If Sky ask me a question, he deserves what ever I give him as an answer in return.

I am allowed the same rights and privelages everyone else has on this forum.
You however, have the right to use the ignore feature.

If I were to ask you a question, you may answer in what ever way you choose,
as long as it's not too much on a personal level, and it;s not a personal attack.
If that's what you wish to do,
do not subject the entire forum to it, and put it into a PM instead.


If you have further issue with me,
please put it in a PM.
The open forum is not the place for it.


Thank you!



By the way,
I don't take well to being threatened..

**ignoring the Sky and MM show**

Lefty, that sounds great. I could've written that myself.

What do you mean by "state"? Are you talking about MS or the US?

Good Luck.

Sorry you had to be inflicted with all that Ping.
However, the show is over.

I think everyone now knows that if you have personal issues with someone
that the open forum is not the place to vent.
If you must communicate your frustration with an individual,
use the PM.


Anyway,
now back to your regularly scheduled program!

Specifically MS. Any suggestions on a place I can go where I can afford to live, that has descent schools and progressive people?

It is interesting how affordable and "blue" don't go together well....Except for rural areas of IL, NY, NH, MD... If you look really closely, I bet you can find a good place.

I do not believe moving away will solve the problem. This "movement" has proven it is plaguelike and will spread to other areas. Once it has America, it will move on. It is our responsiblity to the rest of the world to ensure our problems do not cause them harm. Now we have failed at this, are only course now is to right what we have wronged and you all know what that will take and we all know America is full of to many cowards to do that.

So are we doomed?

Great subject! And a great list...

I would agree with all, however, I have learned there is a place to broach subjects and a place not to broach subjects. I use to openly discuss all my idea's at any time. I have since learned this is not the best way to keep employed/insured/ and food on my table.

The last position I had, my boss (right wing rethug) loved to engage me in political conversation. Was aware of what TJ did ... and miraculously... I found myself unemployed, not insured, and utilizing all my savings to make ends meet. Some would say... "good ridance" " your better off"

However, going from VP to secretary... having my income cut by 3/4 and no retirement left... I am not so sure.

I have learned that in the work place... to keep my mouth quiet. I have learned to be tactfull in my dicussions and leary of why people want to know my political ideologies. I have learned to not voice what my husband does. I have learned that work and personal are two seperate issues.

It takes money to make changes in america! Money that if we don't have, we can't make a difference. I am not talking riches... but enough for food, shelter, and health insurance. I realize that my income directly effects many people... my husband, the site, all of you. That without my having a career their would be no poac... because my husband would not of had the time, money, energy, to develop this. He would of had to work 9-5 to put food on our table, shelter over our heads, and cover medical expenses.

If I had not put my ideologies aside when we moved... and sucked it up to work for wally hell, a gas station, and finally as a secretary (swollowing my pride to support a bigger cause) Poac would not have been able to grow. Dollars that come in from poac would not have been able to go back into the project... it would of had to feed us, cloth us, take care of sick animals, etc.

Thankfully, we have a bigger vision. One I am willing to support. One I am willing to swollow my pride, keep my mouth shut when needed, in order to help a great good. In order to take care of our personal expenses, so poac can grow poac. So Poac can effect a neccessary change in America.

"Taking the bull by their horns" is not always the best way to tackle a situation. A small smile when listening to a blow hard spilling talking points, or a quick bite of a tongue will pay off in the long run. The far right repugs didn't take over in the last few years... they have been quietly strategizing, grass root politicing, fundraising, for decades.

We, on the left have a lot to learn. Where is our message... unified message. Where are our talking points... If we are battleing the corporate elite... the billionaires... then we need to unite in fundraising as well. We need to stay employed... learn from X to reach Y... and turn this country around.

I'm not looking for accolades... I'm just cautioning. Learn from my hard lessons. Be outspoken and teach when the time is right. We all need to be employed, to earn money, in order to change the greater vision. Money is a necessary evil in order to survive.

Ideal visions are a great... it's the strategies behind them that will enable us to reach our goals.

Sorry for ranting...







How true... How true! It totally amazes me how rural area's can still support the repugs! Iowa is still blue politically... and I have my suspicians on how it turned red in the last election (debold). Yet in the rural area we live, with farming and production as the main source of income... when I see a beat up old truck, a poor family get out of a vehicle that says..."bush 04" I am still amazed. How can they truly believe corporate elite is watching out for their personal interests!

I think it is the educational level for some.... the less educated the easier it is to snow with big words, images, etc.

Good to see your thoughts again Robin.
You're always so articulate.



I believe the Blue states tend to be more spendy, because they hold the greatest population,
and that tends to drive up the cost of surviving.

Although, in every single one of those blue states,
you will find affordability.

Though in none of them, will you find the streets paved in gold.
But opportunity does exist!

If you're serious about moving, yer gonna have to do some heavy research,
and by all means, go there BEFORE you actually move!

Not doomed.... just not united yet!

Everyone debates their ideologies... (even here on the forum ) Some because we don't see everything the same way... other's name call because there is disagreements on some issues (you know who you are! ) Yet everyone wants the same end result.

Lefty.. mentioned a great point.. understanding the inner workings of government - current ones in power to learn and utilize the lessons in order to achieve our vision. That is an excellent way to start. What I see day in and day out... are the talking points. Not everyone spilling them directly believe... . however they have hammered home a message that has gotten them to power.

They have traded on some beliefs... political favors.....money... in order to reach their end result. I guess, what I am trying to say is it takes some compromise in order to achieve an end result.

We, on the left are too busy yelling about whether X issue matches Y's statement to pick out the necessary message and drive that home. It is about marketing!

We have all grown up in a society where advertisers have played on emotions... have marketed to meet their year end sales. The repugs have done the same thing.. only to the corporate elite (trading favors for votes and machines to secure such votes) and the 15% of the population necessary to win.

I don't have the answer... I am just stating what I see. I don't see the dem's having the unified front, the talking points, the greater vision! I still see man on man defense.




Thanks.... took a sick day to recooperate my sore tongue! I know I will have to bite it several times tomorrow......

I have been forced out of many good jobs due to standing up for what is right. This includes: a pro-consumer, anti-insurance body shop manager, aluminum worker at ALCOA in which I was an elected union rep and had to defend those faced with injustice, inbound sales and service rep for ameritech/sbc in which I was also an IBEW union steward, now these all being 20 plus an hour jobs, plus good benefits, but I find myself most happy, with less money and knowing that I am not selling my soul for a paycheck!

I simply can not remain silent, and I do not think our founding fathers want me to either!

Thanks for the support Ronnie, I appreciate it.


I have a few points I think need to be understood. In my work I never share my political views, unless specifically asked, and then I usually only say what is necessary without being rude and attempt to go on. Unfortunately, I live where conservatism is a way of life and anyone who finds that my political views are contrary to their own usually attacks me relentlessly. I chose to not bite back 99.9% of the time. I am called a liberal as if the word were synonymous with mass murderer, or something equally as vile. More than one co-worker has added me to their prayer lists in hopes of saving my heathen soul. In my employee review a few weeks ago, I was verbally assaulted for more than 3 hours on my specific ideological views and told that I need to learn to become socialized so that I better fit in. I am been made an example of because I am an "unwed" mother. I get the disdainful remarks, looks and sneers.

I have lived in the South most of my life, I know how it works. I am perfectly capable of masking my beliefs in order to keep my job, I've done it for quite a while.

On the other hand, I refuse...REFUSE...to allow myself to be stepped on simply to make some self-righteous asshole feel like he's (or she's) got a mission from God to save my soul. I also refuse to work where people are openly misogynistic and bigoted. (Both of these are the case for me right now). I've gone through the procedures to have the cultural diversity officers handle the situation, I've been kindly approached by concerned people who tell me to drop it. BUT I have a duty to myself and to the ONE black student in this department, to not allow misogynism and bigottry to be practiced openly in the halls.

I am not stupid, I will not let my son starve. I do not make enough to provide him with health insurance, so its not something I even have to worry about losing. I work here because its my only choice. I've applied at wal-mart and just about every other place in this town and everywhere but here at the university, I was told that I am overqualified because of my degrees.

I believe in myself and my philosophies enough to not allow them to be comprimised just so I can have a job. It may be stupid, but if someone doesn't stand up, no one will. I am strong. This is a name I've never felt comfortable with until I actually thought about what it means.

To say I believe in things, but to not do what is necessary to support my beliefs, is hypocritical. I have to do what is necessary. I want Holden to grow up knowing that he doesn't have to bow to pressure, that he is allowed to believe in himself and the things he thinks important.

That is my bigger picture.

My support to you sister! Its a hard way to go.... I also had problems at work with the neo-con owners & most of their staff at my previous job. Unfortunately I wasn't as covert about as you. I wouldn't argue....but refused to agree...I was "downsized" (big surprise) I was a single mom at the time also....sigh

Lefty... Thanks sooo much for sharing. I totally agree with you. I didn't mean to bite the tongue at the expense of yourself. (my mother would shoot me if I had... strong women... teach strong children)

I do support your initiative for change... and not to take a 3 hour grilling of political ideologies.. or downcasting because of them.

I am not faced with direct confrontation at this time... it just remains hard to bite the tongue when I work with faux snooze watchers... and have to pick when to educate and when not tooo. I've just learned sometimes the back door or side door make a great impact than the front.

My appologies if I offended before totally understanding the situation.

I coudn't have said this better myself, and several times I have tried.



Not sure if she knows it, but because I can relate to Lefty, she won my respect sometime back.
The only word I could offer is that when you got a tough row to hoe, you wind up a better, more capable hoer


(I sure hope I don't get in trouble for that one!)

S'alright. No problem.

In my opinion, and let me make this clear, I know I am far younger then most of you and lived most of my life on the side of things that have made your lives harder, but you can not win against a warrior with philosophy. There is no easier way to say it that I know of then that.

Robin, I am not evenr sure I am intelligent enoguh to hold a conversation with you, but allow me to try. I undertand how your tatics may work in a world of words, but I do not live in such a world. I live in a world of action. You guys always been Liberal, far as I know, but me? How do you think they treat a "Juda"? Now, I have been called worse to my face, but they have stoped. Not from quick barbs or words of wisdom, but because I happen to challenge them.

I bring the fight to them, I force them to back pedal on their "message", and if they want to get rough, well they know real quick now, that I am more then willing to answer their call. Since I am a "Juda" I get a certain style of street "Justice" I hope none of you ever have to face from your peers. Bullies always pick on the weak and the more you do not stand for what you believe, the more they think you are weak. Trust me, I know. I used to believe that too.


A voice is nothing without a pair of hands and a pair of legs to go with it.

*disclaimer-Kinda none related ranting underneath*

On a side note, as long as you live in "their" world, you are forced to play by "their" rules. We all know how capitalist and the uber-wealthy control us, so why do we continue to believe that we need money to survive? I know the images is almost impossible to invision, but just answer yourself this, what did we do before we had money? What did humans do, before we depended on our government to deside what is valuable and what is not?

I mean, what does gold do that makes it so desirable to begin with? I know the root of why gold is used as coinage, but does everyone else? The sun and silver is the moon. Wait a minute, where am I going with this? Yep, Religion started it. See what I mean about how much religion is in our lives and we just dont see it?

MM,

I completely understand where you are coming from. I've been "poor" my entire life. I have never had whatever it is that those who have money have. A good thing for me is that I don't particularly care to have those "things". I have learned that everything that is good is free, or extremely cheap. I can make nearly everything I need for myself, from clothes, to curtains, to blankets...etc. I also can grow all the food I need to eat, and always have (at least since I left home days after high school graduation).

I don't want money. I don't like it. I don't like the "consequences" one has to pay for not having it.

I would LOVE nothing more than to live somewhere that I could produce everything I need. But I don't want to do that alone. So therein lies my biggest problem. There are not tons of people willing to pick up and leave their walmarts, mcdonalds and city life.

I am starting think a good move would be for us to just buy up alot of land and "make" or own little town. Like the book The VIllage or something. Well atleast more modern maybe, but alot of the crap that is bought, I do not use anyway.

Yep, totally agree.

And for entertainment, we could watch you, Scorp and Sky duke it out a few times a day.

(No personal insults, just poking fun!)

To tell you the absolute truth Lefty,
I feel sorry for those who never, or rarely had to struggle.
Because when times are hard, we learn how to cope, and deal with it.
In the process, we develope charactor!.

People who grow up "spoiled", grow up with a tremendous sence of entitlement!
In other words, "I want it, it's mine, I don't care bout anybody else!"
They never learned how to share their toys, because they never had too!



This is why I have mentioned you in particular Lefty,
because right now at this moment, you are a great symbol for all these things we value.

Life is not supposed to be easy, when it is, we become lazy.
Life is not supposed to be with out fear, when it is, we become complacent.
We are not supposed to have everything we want, when we do, we become to expect that we should.
That this is our right, and as Americans IMO, this attitude is the single greatest threat to the world!

This is part and parcel, again IMO, why these politics we discuss are as important as they are!
Because we can all agree that no man should live in a 50,000 square foot home, own 6 cars,
throw away as much as he uses, while anybody else on the planet has to literally starve to death!


To me, this is the core of a Progressive.

Problem is, this shouldnt be a Progressive movement, or a Democratic movement, or even a Republican Movement, it should be a Human Movement, damnit!

exactly my response to the slaughtered mexican girl...and they naysayer who said they "deserved it"

I don't think anybody said they deserved it.
They did say that during the performence of illegal activity, one takes risks.
Does not matter if that illegal activity is justified, and I do not mean this a moral statement.

I'm feeling the pain of the family that just had their young child killed,
and the fact that it was such a horrible death, and for such reasons, only makes it worse.

I think we are missing something here.

The fucking bastard who was driving the fucking jeep. hat is going to happen to him? Problely nothing, We going to let that happen? Are we?

I say right now, we find out more about this case in detail. The officer, he commanding officer, the media there locally, the people there locally. Cause I chould image what would happen if he had ran over some Texans prize bull or just his dog. He would get fired or worse.

So can we atleast show more honor to an illegal alien, then we do our pets and animals? Will we are citizens of this nation continue to allow our very laws used to protect dickheads like this?

[quote name='sky of mind' date='Wednesday, 15 March 2006, 3:47 pm' post='47776']
I don't think anybody said they deserved it.
They did say that during the performence of illegal activity, one takes risks.
Does not matter if that illegal activity is justified, and I do not mean this a moral statement.

[quote]if you gonna break the law and put yourself and your families lives at risk then eventually the odds are gonna catch up and something bads gonna happen.[/quote]

Sorry sky, the tone of this poster...is all if you take a risk (even to save your childs life) then dont be surprised bad things happen....the tone is all self-righteous, heel to the law, or get stomped & it just tightened my jaw. Im too bleeding heart for that crap.

Lemme put it vthis way.

If I were that dad, i'd prolly be on medication right now.
Because I would blame myself for having put her in a dangerous position.

Dont get me wrong. I understand his reasons, and sympathize absolutely.
I do not blame him.
But if that were me, I would blame me!

Why is this back to the DAD??????


The driver, dont let him escape!! How dumb do you have to be to drive over not one person, but two!!!!

At the very least, he should loss his lisense. Damn. Do we have no more Honor?

Hello everyone, I'm new here so I'll mind my P's and Q's for a bit. I'm old enough to remember marching for Civil Rights and against Vietnam. I worked for Congress in the days following Watergate and at every step the media then, as now, trumpeted the Neocon message. The message was we could not overpower those in power.

Back then we thought it was all the country club, white boys, with Ivy degrees and lime green pants we were fighting. But we knew we were fighting. Now we know them by name and every day more people come to know too. One of the Best things Gdubbya has done for America is to give life to a movement of political involvement not seen for decades.

The antics of the K street crowd are now being talked about in places where before no one even knew who our leaders in Congress were. Thanks to George sites like this are popping up and political process is the news of the day. Think what we would not know if we didn't have George trying to crush us. Here as in Iraq, he's brought sides together in agreement of nothing more than opposing him. It is his only benefit to the nation and he's not finished. He's not going down without a fight and the troops are gathering.

It's hard being among the first to get it. It's tough to endure ignorance and predjudice no matter what the subject is. The folks who see no room for other views become tools as the religious right has. There is a way to fight and it's what Rosa Parks and so many others did when they took a seat or took a drink.

You make a simple statement that everyone can understand and you claim an inch of ground. You take the inch that's hardest to defend. The problem with fighting issues, is that no one ever comes to complete agreement on most of them. You need to begin where agreement is easiest. Anyone who has ever dealt with critical illness knows that in an ICU there are no red and blue. In the marches for diseases, fighters and survivors are focused on what makes them the same. There's a power in finding a common enemy and we have one.

Red or blue, purple, green or orange, Americans are sick and dying. We have rates of illness spiraling out of control and thy've revised the reporting enough that the numbers don't even tell the truth. The truth is on the primetime TV in the ads for drugs treating reflux and sleeplessness and gently offering that it's okay to be ready for our chemo now. We have been legislated toxic food and a healthcare crisis which will touch everyone.

Once the issues come back to real bread and butter ones and hit the kitchen table the reddest Bible thumper will agree with the leftest liberal. We don't want to eat food that makes us sick. We don't want to watch our children suffer and enough is enough.

I love the goals you have and try my best to live by similar ones to an extent. But the truth is everywhere you go there is every kind of people. Every liberal isn't better than every conservative and the Democrats are much the same bunch of corporate looters. We need to try not to argue but enlighten and when you know a lot it means holding back. Not betraying, not denying your stand but choosing to take the inch of ground you can rather than stand for one which inspires the other side to fight back.

Leave the inspiring of opposition forces to the boys in the White House. No one does that bettter.

Now I got back to the page and people are on an accident story. I haven't been this out of synch since tie die tees and homegrown weed were each $5 bucks. What happens here?

Fedup!

What a great response. I really appreciate it.
Moving is the only solution I can find at this point. I am aware that no place is perfect, but I have to admit, it would sure as hell be nice to have at least ONE friend.

Amen!



Lefty,

we all do what we gotta do to cope,
and if for you that means you need to find new surroundings,
a place that allows you to feel better about yourself,
then let it be.

Home is whereever you & your son are. There is no perfect place, but my roots have grown into this earth, and I have come to love and care for it. I will defend it, protect it , care for it...til my dying breath. I wish there were a safe place, my freind, but Fear & Loathing are everywhere. Pass it forward, live well, be kind, and you will have done all you can be expected,

Move to Canada lefty.

We're sane up there.

And you're son could get 100% health care (if you became Canadians).

I like this map better...

I didn't realize that the US was so.......... red.

That's why I call it . . .
The home of The Red, White and some Blue.
Red is as Red does.
IT BLEEDS RED.

Like, say... THE MIDDLE EAST.

Notice that most often, though not always, the blue areas are higher population.


I'd like to see a sociological study on this phenom.
I mean, my county is fairly high population, and it's solid blue.
But the next county east, is low population, and is solidly Red.






Oh yeah,
that's why the US got the nickname of
dumbfuckistan!

GOOD IDEA!

I had a 2000 ellection 3-D map.
Huge blue spikes in a sea , bleed red.