When Dad first asked me to explain what I meant by Neocon, I said "A NeoCON is a Zionist married to a Fascist". He looked at me perplexed and said, "Do you realize what you just said?" I said, "Yup, politics makes strange bedfellows." To me , this is the most obvious and least discussed feature of NeoCONism> why, is it taboo or somethin'?

Yes, because its true. Rarely do people want to discuss the TRUTH.

Anything and everything is open to discussion.
That doesn't mean they are open in reality.


Frankly, I'm not certain of the connection,
but I do think the topic needs considerable more discussion.

The only way to know for sure either way,
is to put it openly and honestly on the table.


The more anything is hidden,
the more conspiracy becomes the issue.

WE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD FOR THIS TO BE A TABOO SUBJECT, ESPECIALLY BEFORE NOVEMBER>

I think it is imperative that we discuss this openly and be honest about it. BOTH our parties are being used and corrupted by Zionists and NeoCONS and we gotta put the whole enchilada out on the table because this is one of the MAJOR reasons why we are killing Iraquis and our American kidz and allies are getting killed and maimed for life. THIS WAR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FREEING IRAQUIS . Our kidz are dying for Israel's pre-emptive protection, so they don't have to do it themselves. Israel got more nukes than anybody over there, yet they bribe (lobby & bribe>SAME THING) our politicians to do conventional pre-emptive war with OUR KIDZ. Our budget is being busted for Israel. Dick's oil plans are geared towards Israel. The Iraq War is about O.I.L.> Oil, Israel, Logistical Bases in the Middle East> that is why PNAC planned this BEFORE 9/11. PNAC has NOTHING to do with protecting America! Politicians (on both sides of the aisle) take campaign money from Zionists so that our kidz and our money will go for Israel. Both parties are more beholden to Israel, NOT America.

I am Irish-American and I would not put up with this if both parties (or even one) was more beholden to Ireland than America... I would be mad as hell if our politicians funded and gave our kidz to the I.R.A., so why would I put up with this from the Zionists & Neocons if I would not tolerate this from the I.R.A.?

I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore.

Politicians> choose America or Israel ! If you choose Israel, THEN MOVE TO ISRAEL!

(Stomping off soapbox now, in a huff)

All this talk of the "evil Zionists" smacks of two things:

1) the irrational hatred of the Jews taht came from the 30s

2) The evil "trotskyists" that were responsible for every failure in the USSR

Not all Jews are Zionists.
Anymore than all Communists are Stallinists.
Anymore than all Americans are Neocons.

As a communist, I doubt you would defend the Stallinists.
As an American I am not gonna defend the Neocons.
And we should be able to discuss the Zionists with out every Jew becoming defensive.

Good points.

However, I just cannot believe that the "Zionists" are as big a "threat" as they are being made out to be in this thread.

PS - I'm not jewish (I'm not sure if your last sentence was directed towards me, or in general). Not offended, just wanted to clear that up to remove any confusion.

I don't know.
I'm not saying they are or they are not.

I would agree though that the topic is worthy of further study

Hell No it is not a taboo topic. Nothing is a taboo topic around here. There are no sacred cows. I am interested in hearing more about this, as it might explain the conduct of many Democrats who by their voting records would seem to be in the wrong party.

I have no issue with this persons preferance to examine the Democrats connection,
while saying nothing about the Repubican connection.

It needs to be done, and someone else will get to those who are clearly guilty!

I love how this thread turned into a discuss about a discuss, that has yet to take place. Damn talk about it already.

MM.

There is another thread, one that I opened,
that attempts to discuss mens rights.


What happened there?
The discussion was completely forgotten.
Hell, no one even talked about talking about it!

Any topic that has anything to do with anything even possibly negative about the Jewish community
is not gonna be easy.

I mean, we cant talk about mens rights because women historically have not had rights,
we can't talk about jews because of historic persicution!

Even though not talking about these subjects, or any subject,
does not mean the issue went away!

What right do men have that women are trying to take away?

I didn't vote in this one, and I'll tell you why. What is described in this poll is a group of different avenues of attack by the same group of very wealthy capitalists, who are using all of the mentioned movements, in various combinations, sometimes appearing to oppose one another, in order to consolidate all of the worlds wealth in the hands of as few families as possible. These are all fronts, which use us to defeat us. No matter which you side with, you will be committed to opposing your own best interests in favor of those of your party or political affiliation.

Well said Zooks. Approximations from memory, but I read this before:

in 1970..70% of the wealth was in 23% of their hands
by the late 80's 90% of the wealth was in 2% of their hands.

Cointelpro proved: dividision is defeat. Infiltrate & cause infighting. There really has been a 30 yr plan by Corporate Amerika to consolidate the real power. MONEY
We are nothing but the plankton they feed on, to them; and they would crush us in an instant if it served their purposes.

They keep us diverted from whats really happening with religious conflicts and ideological conflicts; but I fear its all smoke & mirrors while they amass their wealth base & leave us helpless.

singing: Helpless helpless, helpless...gotta love Neil Young

Read your Marx and Lenin wiretap.

They predicted all this a LONG time ago.

Most people were just too stupid to pay attention.

We own a copy of the manifesto, scorp....predictions aside, as I said before...I really believe mankind has not emotionally progressed to the responsibility of the sheer demogarphics of us. Communism is just as impractical as the Republic (so many call democracy) we have here. Just by sheer volume & the amount of power & wealth that volume creates; Corruption is Inevitable. There are no Pat answers to this.

I hate to say it but you fall back on Marx like Sky on Democrats.

What we need is a new way. Do I know what that is YET? No, but I am on here talking to you smart people trying to find answers. Humanity can barely be trusted to self-police their members at a level above small community or tribal levels. How can we accomplish this with the billions?

Hell, the Greeks, the Romans, the Incans, there are numerous societies that fell...and the predictions can be made off them as well. Power corrupts. Overpopulation topples.

Gonna have to diagree with you here wire.

Go beyond the manifesto (it was only a pamphlet). Read Lenin's writings on how to achieve communism.

Don't be fooled by "faux" communism like Cuba / USSR / China. These are not what I believe in.

We don't need a "new way," we need more people to realize that they control the means of produciton, they are the reason society is driven forward, and they have the power to change the world.

Still; that doesnt describe how true communism will work in this post-industrial, overpopulated world.

Who will run it? Who is in charge of what? Can we trust anyone with that much power?

I do believe revolution is inevitable in this country, but maybe not in my generation...because eventually the "Haves" will say F-you to the masses...do as we say or we cut off all your gas & electric & oil.

I mean Henry Ford thought, heck...I can employ 400 workers, make sure each of them can afford a 150$ car, and still make a profit of 50$ off each...if I sell a thousand....

But todays industrialist have none of that attitude & the buyers are gonna bite back.

Ok, I digress...Im getting tired & 5am comes early...I'll get back to you when Im not babbling OK?

I'm with rcorporon on this. Be aware that the uberwealthy even have a niche for people like you and me. We are tolerated, to a point, after which examples will be made. Usually big enough fish to scare the little fish back into line. Duke Cunningham got busted, all right, but not for what we all think. He got busted for setting up his own shop and doing too well as a maverick, not for being a corrupt politician. For cheating them, not us. And a full-scale workers' revolution really is the only way. But it has to be everywhere at once. Look, when Saddam Hussein was faced with attack by the US, he could have neutralized the entire thing by pumping radio-active waste, all he could lay hands on, into his oilwells and then blasting them shut. But he didn't. Greed. The uberwealthy will do everything they can to scare and oppress the means of production, the source of their wealth and power, except destroy it. Keeping 30% of the workforce idle and starving is a powerful stabilizer. And it doesn't matter which 30%. It insures the productivity of the other 70%, and is like money in the bank. It earns interest. That is why we are all played off against each other. Prevent the emergence of a unified front. Right now, the democrats are the slighted mistress, trying to figure out how to instigate a divorce between $POWER$ and the repooblicans. So, Master Mind is a lot righter than he is generally given credit for. About conspiracies. It really is a very big conspiracy.

I will naturally agree with Zooks about their need to prevent a unified front.

And so far it's working.

They sell us what to believe in like this years fashions,
then next year change fashion.





Basically, we're all being taken for a ride.
And no one minds, as long as we get a good seat.

You're missing the point.

Nobody will run it, because there is no need for a state if workers achieve equality.

You don't need to "trust" anybody with any power, because it will be in the hands of the workers.

I'd recommend you do some homework, from here:

Marxist Internet Archive

They have nearly everything ever written by the most important Marxists.

Great into section as well.

You have to understand, under a true communist system, a GLOBAL revolution needs to take place. Socialism in one country doesn't work, which is why Stalinism failed.

This, however, is way off base of what we were discussing. PM me if you'd like to chat about it some more.

I agree with the "plot of the uber-wealthy thing" and the need for worldwide worker unification.
yup, I'll read scorps links, OMG is that a project...

but one of the first things that jumped out at me on theat link was: (i added bold)

Max Shachtman: [Soviet Union is not Socialist] Socialism is based upon the common ownership and democratic control of the means of production and exchange, upon production for use as against production for profit, upon the abolition of all classes, all class divisions, class privilege, class rule, upon the production of such abundance that the struggle for material needs is completely eliminated, so that humanity, at last freed from economic exploitation, from oppression, from any form of coercion by a state machine, can devote itself to its fullest intellectual and cultural development.

My problem isn't with the theory, but practice. A crop fails in Kansas...ok, who makes the decision which localities crop makes up the difference? No one feels like trucking it out there. Who assigns the task? Is there a vote on every little thing? I mean this as real questions, not criticism.

Ok, I'll stand mute on the subject until I read more, and if I find applicable mechanisms to take care of everything, you can pass me my plate of crow without the salt.

Great question, and THANK YOU for actually reading it!

So many people simply dismiss Marxism because of what they have heard, not based on their own research.

Thanks!

I'll try to tackle that question tomorrow. Going to bed now.

There is a world-wide organization, founded in the US in 1935 by a stockbroker and a physician, that is non-profit and exists only for the benefit of its members. The only requirement for membership is the desire to join, nobody can be kept out, and their heirarchy can be described simply as this: "Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern." And this organization serves its members successfully, at every level of the organization. You might benefit from looking at this organization's structure and function. They govern from the bottom up.

[[quote]quote name='Gadzooks!' date='Tuesday, 14 March 2006, 9:47 am' post='47443']
There is a world-wide organization, founded in the US in 1935 by a stockbroker and a physician, that is non-profit and exists only for the benefit of its members. The only requirement for membership is the desire to join, nobody can be kept out, and their heirarchy can be described simply as this: "Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern." And this organization serves its members successfully, at every level of the organization. You might benefit from looking at this organization's structure and function. They govern from the bottom up.
[/quote][/quote]

Ummm, always happy to look up & learn from new material, but could you be a little more specific, dear? "This organization" doesnt search engine well.

I wonder how many trusted servants we could find to help streamline production & distribution in this huge-ass country of ours, or world for that matter.

I'm following along because of personal respect, even though it's a stretch sometimes.
But we do need links, or to at least know who the organization is.

A.A....Alcoholics Anonymous. I would suggest you not exercise contempt prior to investigation. Read their bylaws, traditions and history.

No contempt, just was clueless who you were talking about.

I've been to meetings....and know many who still go.
AA has a fine tradition, but is it applicable globally? The comparison stretches from 10-12 people in a room helping themselves (with their higher power) and eachother; all equal....to a worldwode population?

Maybe I'm just too ignorant to catch your point Zooks. You can try & explain if you'd like, or I can shrug it off to: I don't have to understand everything. No harm, no foul.

What is the most successful capital management system in the world today? Visa. 20 years ago they were tanking, and re-organized. Along the lines of the AA model. Probably unintentionally. They are governed by individual members (not cardholders, individual lenders), who all vote on everything. When a regional model works, it is copied. When a local or regional model fails, it is dropped, and a successful model is adopted or adapted. Same as in A.A. New information is gathered at every level, and offered to others, but they are not required to use it. Because individual or group failure may result in individual death, at least in A.A., the members are well-motivated to see the organization they depend on succeed. As long as the group is successful, the individual has its benefit. When the leadership fails to support the membership, it is changed. Most people, I think, do not consider freedom from tyranny as important as the alcoholic considers freedom from addiction. Looking at the organization at the basic, meeting level, may be extrapolated to the highest levels of the organization. All same-same.

What if we set up a organization like that. Just for life though, for living.

Kinda like, I have been live now for 8564 days and I am loving it and we still help each other in the same way.

This is kinda how I see Communism really on a simple term. When the farm in Kanasas misses a beat, there doesnt need to be a vote about who will pick up the slack because so many would just offer to do it. In our American Culture, have we forgetton what United means?

mm:
Absolutely a beautiful thought & how I try & live my life. But unfortunately the greed & avarice of some of humanity is inherant in their natures. You would not believe the people I have fed, picked up a hammer for, given a roof. I am blessed to have been able to. But many are not like us.....they are full of Fear & Loathing

And please realize that I am only suggestion the structural model, not a personal philosophy. It can be applied anywhere.

Oh I understand Zooks. I believe one of the beautiful things of life is giving a smile to someone with a frown, giving a hand when someone needs more then two, giving a shoulder for someone to lean on. I am a Socialist when it comes to direct govermental ideology.

I was thinking we do it like AA, everyone is given a chance, but we wont let you take hte ship down with you so to speak. I made a post once, about how we should just do what the Third Estate did, just ignore the uber-wealthy and start to govern ourselves. Hold our own "Tennis Court Council" so to speak. When they come to control us, make a stand.

Fuck it. I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore!!!!!!! Something must be done. Are we playing baseball here, do we really need to see a third election stolen before we strike them out?

Great little joke. I don't think it's taboo as much as unknown by the people outside the loop. All topics contrary to tne Neocon agenda are promoted as taboo. Hell, they used to try to scare people into hushing up talk about cancer.

Back in the day when GE, Westinghouse, Dow, DuPont and Monsanto first started seeing the cancers spreading from their PCB's and other profitable products they used the scare tactics to hush it up. For you younger folks before the 1980's most people didn't even say the word.

It was whispered as "C'. No one told if they had it and even deaths were not openly attributed to cancer. Now it's primetime ads boasting "I'm ready for my chemo now" and who's the cutting edge of healthcare? GE and who's making those lifesaving drugs? Monsanto subsidiaries Pfiser and Searle?

What's this got to do with Neocon-Zion? The key to accomplishing the big frauds is to keep the connections misdirected. Just like magic, watch the other hand and be wary of claims of friends or foes.

Actually, the trick is to make sure only your hands are allowed into the process.

What?! Who is getting killed over there? IRAQUIS ! This is about Neocons hating the ARABS, NOT JEWS!!!
This is why people cannot talk frankly about how the Zionists are bribing American politicians through the AIPAC etc, or you get mis-labeled an "anti-Semetic", and then discussion over, its taboo! The only people in the Mideast who are getting killed in this war in their own land are Iraquis by American invaders > doesn't that smack of an irrational hatred of Arabs at all to you?

Are all Irish Catholics members of the IRA? No, of course not, I oughtta know , I am Catholic Irish-American. Does America owe the I.R. A. "preemptive protection" from England with our kidz and budget too?

You are talking apples and oranges when it comes to the difference between Jews and Zionists, and here is the proof:

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.nkusa.org/

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/jews-against-zionists.html

The fact is the Rovian propaganda has worked. The truth is it has not just brainwashed the right-wingers, it has brainwashed ALL of us, to be like fedup said, all hush-hush about connections that are there but it is too "taboo" to say out loud.

That is why I was so glad and relieved when Barbra Streisand, a true patriotic American, wrote this:

The Plan To Invade Iraq Before 9/11 ...Barbra Streisand
Posted on November 14, 2005

Last week Democratic Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid shut down the Senate. Frustrated, angry and seeking answers, Reid threatened to delay legislative action until the Intelligence Committee followed through on its promised investigation of prewar Iraq intelligence failures. Democrats are demanding answers...and now, so are the American people.

But let's remember... 9/11 and faulty intelligence alone did not lead to the invasion of Iraq. This war was being planned in the minds of some for many years. George Bush's former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill revealed in his book that at one of the very first National Security Council meetings after Bush took office in January 2001 he discussed the notion of invading Iraq and that he seemed desperate to find an excuse for pre-emptive war against Saddam Hussein.

Many of Bush's inner circle are members of Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a neo-conservative think-tank that promotes an ideology of total U.S. world domination through the use of force. Back in 1998, PNAC sent an open letter to President Clinton urging his administration to implement a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This letter was signed by Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, John Bolton and Richard Perle. These men, along with fellow PNAC members Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby, were the primary architects of the Iraq war 5 years later. In 2000, PNAC produced a document entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century. The plan outlined how the US should go about taking military control of the Gulf region whether or not Saddam Hussein is in power.

Let's remember some of our recent history with Iraq and Saddam Hussein. The United States' relationship with Saddam has been vastly contradictory. In the 1980's, the U.S. heavily supported Saddam against Iran in the Iran-Iraq war. Saddam was in violation of human rights laws by gassing the Kurds. However, the US turned a blind eye, instead opting to retain a friendly relationship with Saddam in order to access intelligence. The US government furnished Saddam with weapons. We even have pictures documenting Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, shaking hands with Saddam in 1983! In 1990, Saddam invaded Kuwait, stating that he believed he had the silent permission to do so by then US Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie. However, the United States, under George H.W. Bush, responded with Operation Desert Storm to quell the invasion. The same weapons we had given to Saddam to defeat the Iranians a decade earlier, were now being used to kill US soldiers. Although the Persian Gulf War was considered a victory for the United States, ultimately Saddam was not removed from power. This was a tremendous disappointment for the conservative hawks emerging in the Republican party.

Since the Gulf War, there has been a covert but persistent mission by neo-cons to overthrow Saddam Hussein by any means necessary in order to reorganize the Middle East in the name of democracy. However democracy was not the reason Bush gave to the country when he decided to invade Iraq....it was the presence of WMDs, which UN inspectors did not find. Former US top weapons inspector David Kay testified before congress asserting this fact. And Director General of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei, requested more time from the administration to investigate the weapons claims in Iraq before rushing to war. Those in the Bush inner circle had tremendous influence on his final decision to unilaterally attack Iraq in 2003 without the support of the United Nations and the rest of the world.

The notion of invading Iraq and overthrowing Saddam was gaining momentum long before the terrorists attacked on September 11, 2001. Only once America was attacked did Bush and his war mongering neo-con colleagues have the perfect opportunity to utilize faulty intelligence in order to make a case for war and garner the blind support of most of the American public. However, we now know that this war, where thousands of young American soldiers have died, was years in the making. Let's hope that the frustration, anger and determination felt by Democrats and the American public continue to fuel this investigation to uncover the truth.

Lets not forget people, anti-semitism includes both jews and arabs. Plus the Neo-Cons are about money, not racial hatred (that is more a "sport" for them), they are a tool, nothing more.

I stand corrected MM, ! Semitic is inclusive of the Arabic peoples too!:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

But I disagree with you that this is not also about racial hatred , because blood sport with "certain groups" is racial hatred. Certain factions of Zionism have hooked up with American Fascists (Bushies) white good-ole- boy factions, so as incredible as it seems , the Zionists and Fascists have joined hands and forces and budgets this 21st century. Karl Rove is an evil genius. He has cleverly brainwashed us into thinking that it is "bad" to be against Zionists and Fascists that plot together to mass murder Arabs who have done us no harm! John Bolton has brainwashed us all into thinking that it is ok that Israel has a stockpile of nukes , but that other Middle Eastern nations are supposed to have NONE, even for self-defense, even for energy! Together, Zionists and Fascists have joined phoney front groups . such as the misnomered "Committee for the Liberation of Iraq". Even some members of the AIPAC belong to the "CLI" ! I learned this on Political Friendster, the website that makes all these connections very clear and concise. Check out the membership of the CLI, and then the AIPAC , and then the PNAC. Thomas Dine was a member of CLI, and also the former Executive Director of the AIPAC John McCain was a member of the CLI , and former president of the NCP (New Citizenship Project) that initiated the PNAC Check out ALL the connections:

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...eration-of-Iraq

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...e=Thomas-A-Dine

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...-Century-(PNAC)

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...ame=John-McCain

Yes AFW! I had that nagging in my brain too, and I had to finally face my denial, so I starting researching and researching, but I did not like what I found. I could no longer ignore the evidence!
It sounds like you are ready to see what is behind the curtain AFW, so start with Joe Lieberman>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman

'...Although sometimes characterized by his more liberal colleagues as a "Republicrat", Lieberman is viewed by others as a Democrat in the tradition of Washington Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, who advocated a hawkish foreign policy and a liberal domestic program and whom some consider to be an ancestor of modern neoconservatism....

....Iraq War Stance
Lieberman has staunchly supported the Iraq War. In a candid November 29 2005 op-ed piece for The Wall Street Journal, Lieberman praised the efforts of the U.S. military in the occupation of Iraq and criticized both parties,

"I am disappointed by Democrats who are more focused on how President Bush took America into the war in Iraq almost three years ago, and by Republicans who are more worried about whether the war will bring them down in next November's elections, than they are concerned about how we continue the progress in Iraq in the months and years ahead."[5]

Democratic Party leadership rebuked Lieberman. On December 9, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid claimed to be troubled by Lieberman's comments, "I've talked to Senator Lieberman, and unfortunately he is at a different place on Iraq than the majority of the American people." House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi added, "I completely disagree with Lieberman. I believe that we have a responsibility to speak out if we think that the course of action that our country is not making the American people safer, making our military stronger and making the region more stable."[6]

Lieberman refused to recant his position, stating "I've had this position for a long time — that we need to finish the job."[7] His defense of the administration has led some to speculate that he is attempting to position himself to replace Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld or another high-ranking government official, but Lieberman has denied having any desire for this.[8]...'



It is interesting to note that the Neocons started a British organization last year very similar to PNAC...they call it the Henry Jackson Society:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Jackson_Society


Lieberman was also on two of the most Neoconistic and belligerent front organizations against the Arab world, "Committee on the Present Danger", and the phoney "Committee for the Liberation of Iraq" (CLI) :


http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/new...php?storyid=659

http://www.mediareviewnet.com/Project%20fo...an%20Empire.htm


And this from Rightweb's website is a description by Jim Lobe of the misnomered "Committee for the Liberation of Iraq":

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1458

"...In a policy report about the committee, Jim Lobe wrote that CLI "appears to be a spin-off from the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), a front group consisting mainly of neoconservative Jews and heavy-hitters from the Christian Right whose public recommendations on fighting President George W. Bush's 'war against terrorism' and alignment with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in the second intifada have anticipated to a remarkable degree the administration's policy course." (2)..."

Found this article posted over at Crawford Peace House forum (it's pretty long, so I didn't post whole thing):

http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/node/771#comment-12860

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=8730

"March 20, 2006
The Lobby
Why is American policy in the Middle East
skewed in favor of Israel?
by Justin Raimondo
American foreign policy has been weighed down for all too many years by an albatross hung round Uncle Sam's neck, one that distorts our stance especially vis-à-vis Middle Eastern issues and ultimately works against U.S. interests in the region and around the world: that albatross is unconditional support for the state of Israel. Of course, saying this amounts to a hate crime in today's political atmosphere, and it is almost impossible to criticize the Jewish state without being accused of religious bigotry, which is just how Israel's partisans want it. In the halls of Congress and the corridors of power, Israel is above criticism. But not anymore…"

Oh how I agree with that statement.

There is a new study MM :

http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpap...06_011_walt.pdf

Holy crap! That is more then some Americans get a year as welfare.

US support of Israel had a direct connection in Bobby Kennedy's assassination in 1968... Bobby , we hardly knew ye :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kennedy

"...Sirhan confessed to the shooting, claiming he acted against Kennedy because of his support for Israel in the June 1967 Six-Day War. He is currently serving a life prison sentence for the crime although to this day he claims he has absolutely no memory of shooting at Kennedy. It is generally believed that Sirhan fired the shots that hit Kennedy. As with his elder brother John's death, however, many have suggested the official account of RFK's murder is inconsistent or incomplete, and that his death was the result of a conspiracy..."

I am changing my poll vote from "no" to "yes" ... it is clear the subject of "the Lobby" is taboo on the right AND the left

My brief stay at Smirkingchimp.com I was flamed and then banned permanently for posting "the Lobby" articles... I did not even have time to comment or editorialize, I was booted for simply posting the articles verbatim! The following is my email to Smirking Chimp, but it bounced back so they never got it. :

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php...c=64109&forum=3

"Please stop falsely advertising your site as "fair and balanced". For your information I was attempting to have some mature, open, honest , INTELLIGENT discourse regarding the obvious aberration of the Zionist/Christian Right in the AIPAC/PNAC connections within the NeoCONservative Movement's true motives of its manifestos. If there can be no discussion about how the Bush Administration is in a conspiracy abusing Judaeo-Christian beliefs and twisitng them into psuedo "religious values" to murder Iraquis, then how can we stop the madness of killing Arabs with false WMD intel & who had nothing to do with 9/11 ?

For your information, my favorite book of all time is "The Diary of Anne Frank" and I hold this young girls' story and thoughts in my heart always, so for you to "cleverly" infer that I am anti-Semitic is blatant bullying on YOUR part, and I want an apology but really don't expect it from you. I will be letting all other bloggers know to beware of your obvious banning of truthful discussions on your so-called "fair and balanced " site.

By the way the AIPAC/PNAC are the TRUE anti-Semitics because the Arab peoples are Semites too, and they are the ones being invaded and murdered at this juncture in history!"

I should think when the average citizen is as familier with tryanny
in the same way the alcoholic is with the AA and it's reasons for existing,
then you will see them on the same level.
History has many examples.


And as the Visa reorganized, so will society!

The mother of invention and all that!

At the very least it is like co-dependancy, and at the extreme it is the Stockholm Syndrome!

Yank,

Please tell me you're lying? They freaking banned you for posting an article? That's bullshit. Makes me want to sign up and post the same article. Geezus fucking krist. You can't share news without getting banned?? Thank god Tj's not a complete tool and doesn't ban people for stupid shit like that.

Read the Smirking Chimp link above , no lie!... I posted the article , then they flamed me, then I posted an additional article on same "Lobby" topic , then the thread disappeared ( I thought I deleted my own thread by mistake). So I posted it again under another forum heading, they flamed me again , and then the administrator froze the thread and permanently banned me (even though I posted no opinions or editorials of my own... I'm NOT kidding!)