Apparently emergency crew personnel who were directly involved in recovering the airplane black boxes from ground zero in NYC after 9/11 were told to keep it quiet that the flight recorders had been discovered.
Does anyone know if this story is just a rumour or is it true? Is the official story on 9/11 that no black boxes were recovered in NYC?
Full Version: 9/11 Coverup Re: Black Boxes?
OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards > Political Discussion forums > Politics In General
| QUOTE |
| Updated December 12, 2004 BLACK BOX COVER-UP Rescue workers silenced after exposing 9-11 whitewash By Greg Szymanski A 9-11 rescue worker recently came forward to say he was told by FBI agents to ?keep my mouth shut? about one of the ?black boxes? a fellow firefighter helped locate at ground zero, contradicting the official story that none of the flight and cockpit data recorders were ever recovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers. Honorary firefighter Mike Bellone claims he was approached by unknown bureau agents a short time after he and his partner, Nicholas DeMasi, a retired New York firefighter, found three of the four ?black boxes? among the WTC rubble before January 2002. The pair first claimed in an August 2003 book entitled Behind the Scene: Ground Zero to have found the data recorders. DeMasi said the ?black boxes? were found while he traversed ?ground zero? in his all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with three federal agents. FBI and New York fire officials have denied ever finding the voice and data recorders. Now Bellone claims agents were adamant about keeping the discovery a secret. ?They confronted me and told me to not to say anything,? recalled Bellone, referring to one of three reddish-orange boxes with two white stripes he saw in the back of DeMasi?s ATV. ?I said, ?Give me a good reason.? When they couldn?t, I told them I wouldn?t shut up about it. ?Why should I? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. It?s the truth, and Nick and I are sticking to our story as we always have.? Bellone said he and DeMasi were not the only 9-11 rescue workers to see the ?black boxes.? He said there were several other witnesses and said he knows they have been silenced by federal agents. ?I know two or three others saw what went down, but they are not talking,? said Bellone. ?They got to those guys after they talked to me. The only reason I can figure they are trying to hide the truth is that the government knows it screwed up, and the recorders would prove it.? Asked to give names of the other witnesses, he said he wouldn?t break a fellow worker?s confidence by revealing his identity. ?I can tell you this, though, it was all very strange. I worked on the spaceship Columbia cleanup, and you know when something important is found and when something is not,? he said. The day the ?black boxes? were secretly carted away, agents acted like ?something big was going down,? he added. Bellone said he never learned the FBI agents? names as this type of personal contact and information wasn?t exchanged between the civilian workers and government officials working side-by-side at ground zero. ?They had on their FBI jackets, but I?m sure I could pick them out of a lineup or recognize their pictures,? said Bellone. The pair?s bombshell accusations blow a big hole in the official story as well as the findings in the recent 9-11 commission report.? In Chapter 1, footnote 76, there is the sole but definitive reference to the airline ?black boxes?: ?The CVR?s and the FDR?s [voice and flight data recorders] from American 11 and United 175 were not found.? Asked if DeMasi and Bellone were questioned or subpoenaed, commission spokesman Al Felzenberg said: ?I can?t tell you now if he was one of the 1,200 people we interviewed or if the book was one of the countless ones we researched. We explored every lead, but I will try to find out if we talked with him and get back to you.? Bellone said commission members never contacted him or DeMasi and never asked the two to appear before the group even though the book was published well before the hearings commenced. ?I have been contacted by only one newspaper reporter, from The Philadelphia Daily News,? said Bellone, referring to an October 2004 story by reporter William Bunch, who recapped DeMasi?s statements as well as the usual official denials. Those close to the 9-11 investigation said the recovery of the ?black boxes? is important because they may hold vital clues about what really happened on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001. The cockpit voice recorder uses a pair of microphones to capture all cockpit sounds for the last 30 minutes of a doomed flight. The flight data recorder is also significant since it records altitude, heading and airspeed. Both recorders are designed to withstand enormous impact and heat. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) officials said they should have withstood the conditions at the WTC. And finding the boxes after a crash seems to be standard procedure, according to the NTSB. ?It?s extremely rare that we don?t get the recorders back,? said NTSB spokesman Ted Lopatkiewicz. ?I can?t remember another case which we did not recover the recorders.? Bellone is retired and was made an honorary New York fireman for his efforts after 9-11. DeMasi has recently retired from Engine Co. 261, nicknamed the ?Flaming Skulls.? Not Copyrighted. Readers can reprint and are free to redistribute - as long as full credit is given to American Free Press - 645 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Suite 100 Washington, D.C. 20003 |
I did some googling, and this is what turned up:
http://www.google.com/search?q=9-11%2C+bla...=mozilla-search
So far, the "indy" media seems to be all that's covering this. It could be true, but without other corroboration, it's hard to say.
'Bina.
http://www.google.com/search?q=9-11%2C+bla...=mozilla-search
So far, the "indy" media seems to be all that's covering this. It could be true, but without other corroboration, it's hard to say.
'Bina.
you would think that if they found the black boxes and they told a different story to the "official story" there would be lots of people in trouble! dont you think? 
I heard thru a source I wont mention here ( due to mockery which could ensue
) that people who try and talk about this sort of thing get threatened to shut up. So I wouldnt be surprised if its quite true
I heard thru a source I wont mention here ( due to mockery which could ensue
) that people who try and talk about this sort of thing get threatened to shut up. So I wouldnt be surprised if its quite true
Many of the stories i have heard about the "official" story of 9/11 just don't ring true. THere is somethings missing....i can't quite put my finger on it tho.....
The main thing that bothered me were how they "knew" who did it by about the next day? Mc veigh was harder to catch than that, and then it happened by accident.
The flight recorder box not being found in NY doesn't seem possible, especially compared with other things that were found. I don't know. I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem likely. What other plane disasters could compare to this...and did they find those boxes?
Ahhhh...too many questions that we should know by now, but the administration we had then and have now is certainly not going to be the ones who tell the real story.
The main thing that bothered me were how they "knew" who did it by about the next day? Mc veigh was harder to catch than that, and then it happened by accident.
The flight recorder box not being found in NY doesn't seem possible, especially compared with other things that were found. I don't know. I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem likely. What other plane disasters could compare to this...and did they find those boxes?
Ahhhh...too many questions that we should know by now, but the administration we had then and have now is certainly not going to be the ones who tell the real story.
| QUOTE (logosoco @ Tuesday, 14 December 2004, 4:16 pm) |
| Many of the stories i have heard about the "official" story of 9/11 just don't ring true. THere is somethings missing....i can't quite put my finger on it tho..... The main thing that bothered me were how they "knew" who did it by about the next day? Mc veigh was harder to catch than that, and then it happened by accident. The flight recorder box not being found in NY doesn't seem possible, especially compared with other things that were found. I don't know. I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem likely. What other plane disasters could compare to this...and did they find those boxes? Ahhhh...too many questions that we should know by now, but the administration we had then and have now is certainly not going to be the ones who tell the real story. |
It is amazing that they knew who the hijackers were, where their cars were parked and how they got to the flight that they were on....amazing isn't it. I seem to remember that their was alot of secrecy dealing with the black boxes, especially what was on them.
'Doc
Does anyone else think that the 9/11 commission is "our" Warren commission ?
Definitely. I'm too young to have direct knowledge of the Warren Commission, but I'll agree that that one and this one have only left more questions to be answered. And given unsatisfactory answers to the questions they DID tackle.
'Bina.
'Bina.
| QUOTE (LionTamerX @ Wednesday, 15 December 2004, 10:25 am) |
| Does anyone else think that the 9/11 comission is "our" Warren comission ? |
Yup...has all the major components, anytime he have the government investing something like this you know it's not going to cover all the facts...
'Doc
911 commission was the shinny object to distract the sheeple. Its a good thing the hijackers are dead becasue their case has more holes in it than Bush's military service records.
| QUOTE (LionTamerX @ Wednesday, 15 December 2004, 10:25 am) |
| Does anyone else think that the 9/11 commission is "our" Warren commission ? |
Only kinda-sorta. It depends on what you think the Warren Commission actually knew. Some people think the Warren Commission actually knew what really happened in the assassination. If that's the case, then I don't think the 9-11 Commission was our Warren Commission.
But I don't actually think the Warren Commission knew what really happened to Kennedy. I think they were trying to find a "reasonable" answer--i.e., an answer that sounded credible and sane, not a "far out" conspiracy plot. I think they meant well, and wanted to help the country heal, and give us an answer. But they seemed very, very determined to discount and ignore anything that might complicate the answer or that might make people think their entire government was seriously f'ked up. And in THAT regard, I'd say the 9-11 commission was our generation's Warren Commission.
IMO, both the Warren Commission and the 9-11 Commission have tried to find "reasonable" and "sane" answers, and I think both were strongly inclined to dismiss any suggestion of deliberate malevolence and/or corruption within the government. And IMO, neither commission really considered that the terrible events each commission was investigating might really have some serious, real-world elements of conspiracy.
Gerald Ford is the last living Warren Commission member now. I honestly believe that, despite his party affiliation and the problems of his own career, he's a decent man at heart, and if he really knew anything more about Kennedy's assassination, he wouldn't keep it silent--not even for this long, much less carry it to his grave.
Likewise, I simply cannot believe that some of the 9-11 Commission members like Bob Kerry, Lee Hamilton and Richard Ben-Veniste would keep quiet if they knew more than the final report says--much less that they would ever help to bury it.
I think both commissions simply had the natural, human inclination to discount anything that smelled like a foil-hat conspiracy notion. I think it was a terrible mistake in both cases, but an honest and reasonable one.
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Thursday, 16 December 2004, 6:24 am) |
| Only kinda-sorta. It depends on what you think the Warren Commission actually knew. Some people think the Warren Commission actually knew what really happened in the assassination. If that's the case, then I don't think the 9-11 Commission was our Warren Commission. But I don't actually think the Warren Commission knew what really happened to Kennedy. I think they were trying to find a "reasonable" answer--i.e., an answer that sounded credible and sane, not a "far out" conspiracy plot. I think they meant well, and wanted to help the country heal, and give us an answer. But they seemed very, very determined to discount and ignore anything that might complicate the answer or that might make people think their entire government was seriously f'ked up. And in THAT regard, I'd say the 9-11 commission was our generation's Warren Commission. IMO, both the Warren Commission and the 9-11 Commission have tried to find "reasonable" and "sane" answers, and I think both were strongly inclined to dismiss any suggestion of deliberate malevolence and/or corruption within the government. And IMO, neither commission really considered that the terrible events each commission was investigating might really have some serious, real-world elements of conspiracy. Gerald Ford is the last living Warren Commission member now. I honestly believe that, despite his party affiliation and the problems of his own career, he's a decent man at heart, and if he really knew anything more about Kennedy's assassination, he wouldn't keep it silent--not even for this long, much less carry it to his grave. Likewise, I simply cannot believe that some of the 9-11 Commission members like Bob Kerry, Lee Hamilton and Richard Ben-Veniste would keep quiet if they knew more than the final report says--much less that they would ever help to bury it. I think both commissions simply had the natural, human inclination to discount anything that smelled like a foil-hat conspiracy notion. I think it was a terrible mistake in both cases, but an honest and reasonable one. |
That may be true RDB, but the magic theory is as tin foil hat has you can get...and they stood by it...
'Doc
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Thursday, 16 December 2004, 6:24 am) |
| Only kinda-sorta. It depends on what you think the Warren Commission actually knew. Some people think the Warren Commission actually knew what really happened in the assassination. If that's the case, then I don't think the 9-11 Commission was our Warren Commission. But I don't actually think the Warren Commission knew what really happened to Kennedy. I think they were trying to find a "reasonable" answer--i.e., an answer that sounded credible and sane, not a "far out" conspiracy plot. I think they meant well, and wanted to help the country heal, and give us an answer. But they seemed very, very determined to discount and ignore anything that might complicate the answer or that might make people think their entire government was seriously f'ked up. And in THAT regard, I'd say the 9-11 commission was our generation's Warren Commission. IMO, both the Warren Commission and the 9-11 Commission have tried to find "reasonable" and "sane" answers, and I think both were strongly inclined to dismiss any suggestion of deliberate malevolence and/or corruption within the government. And IMO, neither commission really considered that the terrible events each commission was investigating might really have some serious, real-world elements of conspiracy. Gerald Ford is the last living Warren Commission member now. I honestly believe that, despite his party affiliation and the problems of his own career, he's a decent man at heart, and if he really knew anything more about Kennedy's assassination, he wouldn't keep it silent--not even for this long, much less carry it to his grave. Likewise, I simply cannot believe that some of the 9-11 Commission members like Bob Kerry, Lee Hamilton and Richard Ben-Veniste would keep quiet if they knew more than the final report says--much less that they would ever help to bury it. I think both commissions simply had the natural, human inclination to discount anything that smelled like a foil-hat conspiracy notion. I think it was a terrible mistake in both cases, but an honest and reasonable one. |
Excellent post.
My tinfoil hat is off to you.
I guess my point was that some conspiracy theories are worth following, regardless of the effect it will have on the sheeple. This is a slippery slope, no doubt. I have read a number of books and watched documentaries, films, after school specials and the like on the Kennedy assassination...and I still don't have a definitive answer in my heart. I want to know...I really do. Regardless of how it will make me feel.
As for 9/11... it gets more personal. In the 70's I was lucky enough to have a best friend who's dad was a Port Authority engineer. He took us on a tour of the uncompleted buildings and scared the crap out of us by bringing us up to where we were standing on planks and plywood, twenty stories above where the walls were finished. Around the eightieth floor or so. One of the most amazing experiences of my boyhood. Fast forward to the early eighties, I landed a job (my first out of school) in a bank on the 103rd floor of the north tower. I used to go into work an hour and a half early just to sneak in to a corner office and enjoy my bagel and coffee while watching the traffic coming in from Jersey at sunrise.
I don't personally know anyone who was killed on 9/11...But I feel like I know all of them intimately in some way.
I never even knew there were stairwells in the building when I worked there.
It's these thoughts that keep me up at night...wondering.
I really need to know what happened and why. The sad truth is that these kind of facts probably won't come to light until long after I'm dead and buried.
If ever.
| QUOTE (LionTamerX @ Thursday, 16 December 2004, 11:26 am) | ||
Excellent post. My tinfoil hat is off to you. I guess my point was that some conspiracy theories are worth following, regardless of the effect it will have on the sheeple. This is a slippery slope, no doubt. I have read a number of books and watched documentaries, films, after school specials and the like on the Kennedy assassination...and I still don't have a definitive answer in my heart. I want to know...I really do. Regardless of how it will make me feel. As for 9/11... it gets more personal. In the 70's I was lucky enough to have a best friend who's dad was a Port Authority engineer. He took us on a tour of the uncompleted buildings and scared the crap out of us by bringing us up to where we were standing on planks and plywood, twenty stories above where the walls were finished. Around the eightieth floor or so. One of the most amazing experiences of my boyhood. Fast forward to the early eighties, I landed a job (my first out of school) in a bank on the 103rd floor of the north tower. I used to go into work an hour and a half early just to sneak in to a corner office and enjoy my bagel and coffee while watching the traffic coming in from Jersey at sunrise. I don't personally know anyone who was killed on 9/11...But I feel like I know all of them intimately in some way. I never even knew there were stairwells in the building when I worked there. It's these thoughts that keep me up at night...wondering. I really need to know what happened and why. The sad truth is that these kind of facts probably won't come to light until long after I'm dead and buried. If ever. |
Yup, you are so correct, knowing the Bush's they will bury the facts so deep that no one will ever know the real truth...
'Doc
| QUOTE (LionTamerX @ Thursday, 16 December 2004, 2:26 pm) |
| As for 9/11... it gets more personal. In the 70's I was lucky enough to have a best friend who's dad was a Port Authority engineer. He took us on a tour of the uncompleted buildings and scared the crap out of us by bringing us up to where we were standing on planks and plywood, twenty stories above where the walls were finished. Around the eightieth floor or so. One of the most amazing experiences of my boyhood. Fast forward to the early eighties, I landed a job (my first out of school) in a bank on the 103rd floor of the north tower. I used to go into work an hour and a half early just to sneak in to a corner office and enjoy my bagel and coffee while watching the traffic coming in from Jersey at sunrise. I don't personally know anyone who was killed on 9/11...But I feel like I know all of them intimately in some way. I never even knew there were stairwells in the building when I worked there. It's these thoughts that keep me up at night...wondering. I really need to know what happened and why. The sad truth is that these kind of facts probably won't come to light until long after I'm dead and buried. If ever. |
Oh, man, what a story...
I think we can all agree that we need to know what really happened; I think we can also agree that there are some very powerful interests who are determined to keep us from knowing just that, if they can help it. I also believe, because I've seen it, that there are plenty of people who are just as determined, if not more so, to monkeywrench the campaign to keep us in the dark. My only hope is that those people, and not the forces of ignorance, prevail here. And that the truth will come out sooner rather than later.
'Bina.
I wear a tinfoil hat, and proudly so sometimes.
The thing about "conspiracy theories" is that as long as there are questions, or the official story has some holes, there are always openings for theories about what happened. If the story about the Kennedy assassination was settled for you by the Warren commission, then you don"t see what other theories there could be. If the 9/11 commission doesn't ring true, then you are still open to any other possibilities.
There is also the biggies....creation or evolution... i can listen to any thing from either side, because neither one is concrete enough for me to rule out anything (actually, i believe in BOTH of them, but that;s another story).
I think there is so much more to both of these events (and many others) than the gov't tells us, and sometimes i ask myself so many questions, I envy those people who take the gov't word without doubt, because life would be much simpler then.
The thing about "conspiracy theories" is that as long as there are questions, or the official story has some holes, there are always openings for theories about what happened. If the story about the Kennedy assassination was settled for you by the Warren commission, then you don"t see what other theories there could be. If the 9/11 commission doesn't ring true, then you are still open to any other possibilities.
There is also the biggies....creation or evolution... i can listen to any thing from either side, because neither one is concrete enough for me to rule out anything (actually, i believe in BOTH of them, but that;s another story).
I think there is so much more to both of these events (and many others) than the gov't tells us, and sometimes i ask myself so many questions, I envy those people who take the gov't word without doubt, because life would be much simpler then.
| QUOTE (logosoco @ Thursday, 16 December 2004, 5:19 pm) |
| I wear a tinfoil hat, and proudly so sometimes. The thing about "conspiracy theories" is that as long as there are questions, or the official story has some holes, there are always openings for theories about what happened. If the story about the Kennedy assassination was settled for you by the Warren commission, then you don"t see what other theories there could be. If the 9/11 commission doesn't ring true, then you are still open to any other possibilities. There is also the biggies....creation or evolution... i can listen to any thing from either side, because neither one is concrete enough for me to rule out anything (actually, i believe in BOTH of them, but that;s another story). I think there is so much more to both of these events (and many others) than the gov't tells us, and sometimes i ask myself so many questions, I envy those people who take the gov't word without doubt, because life would be much simpler then. |
Okay, forgive the bad reference but sometimes it just seems like America is far too busy yelling "Tastes Great - Less Filling " at each other while certain parties who shall remain nameless fan the flames. My tinfoil trousers are starting to chafe. Got any bright ideas ?
Brother can you spare a million ?
You might want to try some powder for that chaffing (?)
| QUOTE (logosoco @ Friday, 17 December 2004, 5:31 am) |
| You might want to try some powder for that chaffing (?) |
I heard Gold Bond is good....
Doc
9/11 was an inside job! 
The towers were couldn't have been destroyed from jetfuel. They were demolished.
Debate.
The towers were couldn't have been destroyed from jetfuel. They were demolished.
Debate.
| QUOTE (Brillo @ Thursday, 23 December 2004, 8:11 am) |
| 9/11 was an inside job! The towers were couldn't have been destroyed from jetfuel. They were demolished. Debate. |
No, if you look at the report, the towers were design to collaspe, much like a car's fenders crumble. Not to mention, that it wasn't the jetfuel but the heat from that jet fuel....but nice try, now back away from the tinhat....
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