I was thinking this myself....
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006..._b_traitors.htm
Scum-sucking traitors to their country
DOUG THOMPSON / Capitol Hill Blue | March 3 2006
The next time some loudmouth partisan puke Democrat gets in my face and starts yapping about how much better things would be if his party were running things in Washington, I'm going to pull out the vote tally sheet for the USA Patriot Act in Thursday's Senate session and ram it down his lying throat.
Where was his party when it came time to stand up and take a stand for freedom in this country? Hiding like a coward, that's where. Only nine Democrats and one independent - former Republican Jim Jeffords - had guts enough to vote against reauthorizing the fascist piece of crap called the USA Patriot Act.
The rest, including Harry Reid, that scum-sucking capitulator who claims to be the Senate Democratic leader, dropped their pants, bent over, grabbed their ankles and handed George W. Bush the k-y jelly and said "bung-hole me all you want sir. I like getting screwed by dictators."
What about the leading contender for the 2008 Democratic Presidential nomination, the so-called "gentle lady from New York," Hillary Rodham Clinton? Oh, she let Bush screw her like a frat boy in the back seat of his car. Too late to cry rape Hillary. You proved yourself a political slut like most of the rest of your party.
This is the opposition party? This is the party that partisans claim will save this country from the abuses and excesses of too many years of Republican domination? Christ, these losers couldn't lead a Cub Scout pack on an overnight camping trip in a suburban back yard.
I expected Republicans to fall in lockstep behind their power-mad President and sell out their country. That's what Republicans do in the name of power and control, even though a few make a token show of resistance last year by joining Democratic efforts to filibuster passage of the act. But I held out faint hope that the Dems wouldn't cave and join in the feeding frenzy on the Constitution. Serves me right, I guess, for trusting any politician -- Democrat or Republican.
Only these 10 voted against the act: Daniel Akaka (D-HI), Tom Harkin (D-IA), Carl Levin (D-MI), Jeff Bingaman (D-NM), Ron Wyden (D-OR), James Jeffords (I-VT), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Patty Murray (D-WA), Russ Feingold (D-WI), Robert Byrd (D-WV). The rest voted with Bush and against freedom.
Oh those who voted for the act will give us some propagandistic pap about adding protections for civil rights but those rights are cosmetic crap. The act itself is a Constitution-evading invasion of basic American rights to privacy, and an abandonment of long-standing protections against illegal search and seizure.
If you think Bush was an out-of-control despot before, just see what he will do with the expanded wiretapping, surveillance and seizure powers granted him and his Gestapo-like Department of Homeland Security in the reauthorized act. Don't expect the House of Representatives to do anything to stop this act. The real battleground was the Senate and that battle was lost when Democrats joined with Republicans to sell out the Constitution of the United States.
Where I come from, that's called treason and everyone who voted for the USA Patriot Act should be considered a traitor to their country and treated as such.
And the next Democrat who gets in my face to tell me how much better things would be with his party in charge had better have a good dental insurance plan.
Full Version: Democrats fully on board with passing Patriot Act
OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards > Political Discussion forums > Politics In General
Well, my senator was one of the TEN senate members to vote
HELL NO WAY to the BILL OF RIGHTS RESTRICTIONS ACT!!!
HELL NO WAY to the BILL OF RIGHTS RESTRICTIONS ACT!!!
Good for you. My senators are Bushbot Shelby and Bushbot Sessions.
If the Democratic Party is fully on board with passing the Patriot Act, I'm sure they must have a very good reason for doing so. After all, they must do whatever it takes to keep their seats and to keep fighting the good fight for all of us progressives, right? Maybe by doing this they will get a little political leverage in the next election. We should just keep being loyal to the Democratic Party no matter what they do. Yeah, thats the ticket. 
More on the topic
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0303-20.htm
Published on Friday, March 3, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
Cegelis vs. The Machine
by Cindy Sheehan
I am beginning to wonder what it is that such "Democrats" like Rahm Emanuel (IL), Chuck Schumer (NY), and Nancy Pelosi (CA) are protecting in Iraq. What is it that they have at stake in keeping the occupation of Iraq going? Their constituents in every case are solidly anti-war and anti-Bush. They all come from the bluest of states and/or districts. Yet when faced with the chance to defend and promote antiwar candidates who agree with the majority of Americans that it's time to get out of Iraq this year, they go into overdrive to try to destroy their candidacies.
Take the case of Christine Cegelis. Cegelis opposed the war before it started. She supports single-payer health care and a strong transition to renewable energy.
She's pro-choice, and anti-CAFTA. And she has a strong grassroots following in her district. In short, Christine Cegelis is exactly the kind of candidate that the Democratic Party needs.
On top of that, in 2004 Christine took on the thankless task of running against arch-conservative Henry Hyde (R-IL). You remember Henry Hyde—the man whose name is on key right-to-life, the man who led the impeachment fight against Bill Clinton, the man who now chairs the International Relations Committee in the House and routinely buries antiwar Democrats' attempts to investigate the lies that took us into the Iraq War that then took Casey.
Surprisingly, Christine racked up 44% against Hyde, despite being outspent by 4-1. She immediately announced that she would run again, and faced with her continuing strong grassroots opposition, Hyde decided to retire.
What was her reward for this service? Not an infusion of money to help her win an open seat against a former Tom DeLay aide—No! Instead, DCCC head Rahm Emanuel went out and found a candidate to run against her, a woman who did not even live in the district. Then, led by Emanuel, almost all the prominent Democrats in the country—John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and many others—have weighed in on behalf of Cegelis' opponent.
The new candidate deserves our praise for her service. Like my son, she served her country, and paid a high price for her service—and for that I applaud her. Tammy Duckworth has served her country honorably in and out of the military and seems to be a good person. But here is her position on Iraq, straight from the Republican talking points:
"The fact is that we are in Iraq right now and we can't simply pull up Stakes and create a security vacuum."
Duckworth is not a backer of setting a timetable in the Iraq War and getting out. And her lead sponsor is Emanuel, the man who infamously said, when asked about Murtha's effort to stop the war, that "At the right time, we will have a position."
Christine Cegelis is a true progressive on all the issues, and, in here is her position on the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq:
"The war in Iraq has taken the lives of more than 2,000 American men and women and killed and injured tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. More than $200 billion tax dollars have been poured into the effort. Our credibility in the eyes of the world has been severely damaged. The Bush Administration's conduct in starting and executing this conflict has been a disaster from the very earliest stages.
I have opposed this war from the start. But revisiting what brought us to this disastrous point does not solve the problem. It is time for us to bring our troops home. The Bush Administration must provide a comprehensive timetable for withdrawal of the majority of our combat troops at the earliest possible date. We must bring home our 46,000 citizen soldiers of the National Guard and Reserve home as soon as possible, where they can continue their lives as our police officers, our firefighters, our workers and our neighbors. The U.S. must spell out a reasonable and detailed plan to transfer power to Iraq's military and police forces.
Defending our nation against the threat of terrorism is a top priority. The issues of Iraq and terrorism are now the same. Al-Qaeda had no link to Iraq before our invasion. Now it is a breeding ground for hatred and terror, and an ideal recruiting pool for Al-Qaeda and other terrorist networks. Extending the conflict in Iraq only gives terrorists more opportunities to foment hatred against America. Instead of lessening the threat of terrorism around the world, our war has accelerated it. We owe it to ourselves and the world to reverse this trend, and to use our foreign policy muscle to truly lessen the global reach of terror. A stable and sovereign Iraq can only occur when the U.S. becomes an ally, not an occupying force, and it is only then that we can rebuild trust in the Middle East and with the Islamic communities of the world.
We need to let the Iraqis determine their own future. This means letting them run their own political process, instead of meddling in it for our own political gain. That also means pledging that we will not operate permanent military bases in Iraq and renouncing any claims to Iraqi oil. We need to make sure that the Iraqi people understand that we have no intention of permanently occupying their country. If the Iraqis want international peacekeepers, we need to work with them to make that happen. The U.S. also needs to immediately involve other countries in the effort to rebuild Iraq. Dozens of countries have a stake in creating a stable Iraq.
The failures of this war must prevent the United States from making similar mistakes in the future. And the only way we can make sure that lesson is learned is to elect leaders who understand that lesson."
I agree with Christine Cegelis—we need our troops home as soon and as safely as possible. George Bush, the Republican Party and too many Rubber-Stamp Democrats have created a security vacuum in the Middle East and in our own country (does anyone remember Katrina and the devastation of the Gulf States?) And if we aren't careful to elect leaders who are strong on National Security by also being strong on diplomacy and peace, Iran and who knows where else is next.
As Iraq descends into a civil war prepared and propagated by the neocons with military bases and oil pipelines being constructed with very little reconstruction of Iraq's infrastructure, 82% of the Iraqi people want the occupation to end and 49% think it's just fine to kill coalition troops to do so.
Meanwhile, our own children and grandchildren will be paying for the leadership vacuum created by both of our major political parties. Bushco has put our country into deep and debilitating debt; they have made enemies for generations by their policies of terror; and we have lost and had maimed so much of our national human treasure. Bushco is spying on and imprisoning Americans and other members of humanity without due process and selling our security to the highest bidders. In the 6th Congressional District of Illinois on March 21st, a hometown grassroots progressive is being inundated by the elite forces of the D.C. Democratic Party. She and her team are being outspent and out-advertised, with money pumped in from out-of-the-district. But Cegelis and her grassroots team are not being outworked; she has deep roots in the district, and has been running nonstop for 3 years now, and she is determined to pull an upset against the Big Boys that are trying to keep the Democratic Party from responding to its antiwar base.
You can help. As I always say, it's not about "left and right." It is about "right and wrong." It's about good, not bad. It's about time to vote for peace.
It's about time for Congressional leaders like Christine Cegelis.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0303-20.htm
Published on Friday, March 3, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
Cegelis vs. The Machine
by Cindy Sheehan
I am beginning to wonder what it is that such "Democrats" like Rahm Emanuel (IL), Chuck Schumer (NY), and Nancy Pelosi (CA) are protecting in Iraq. What is it that they have at stake in keeping the occupation of Iraq going? Their constituents in every case are solidly anti-war and anti-Bush. They all come from the bluest of states and/or districts. Yet when faced with the chance to defend and promote antiwar candidates who agree with the majority of Americans that it's time to get out of Iraq this year, they go into overdrive to try to destroy their candidacies.
Take the case of Christine Cegelis. Cegelis opposed the war before it started. She supports single-payer health care and a strong transition to renewable energy.
She's pro-choice, and anti-CAFTA. And she has a strong grassroots following in her district. In short, Christine Cegelis is exactly the kind of candidate that the Democratic Party needs.
On top of that, in 2004 Christine took on the thankless task of running against arch-conservative Henry Hyde (R-IL). You remember Henry Hyde—the man whose name is on key right-to-life, the man who led the impeachment fight against Bill Clinton, the man who now chairs the International Relations Committee in the House and routinely buries antiwar Democrats' attempts to investigate the lies that took us into the Iraq War that then took Casey.
Surprisingly, Christine racked up 44% against Hyde, despite being outspent by 4-1. She immediately announced that she would run again, and faced with her continuing strong grassroots opposition, Hyde decided to retire.
What was her reward for this service? Not an infusion of money to help her win an open seat against a former Tom DeLay aide—No! Instead, DCCC head Rahm Emanuel went out and found a candidate to run against her, a woman who did not even live in the district. Then, led by Emanuel, almost all the prominent Democrats in the country—John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and many others—have weighed in on behalf of Cegelis' opponent.
The new candidate deserves our praise for her service. Like my son, she served her country, and paid a high price for her service—and for that I applaud her. Tammy Duckworth has served her country honorably in and out of the military and seems to be a good person. But here is her position on Iraq, straight from the Republican talking points:
"The fact is that we are in Iraq right now and we can't simply pull up Stakes and create a security vacuum."
Duckworth is not a backer of setting a timetable in the Iraq War and getting out. And her lead sponsor is Emanuel, the man who infamously said, when asked about Murtha's effort to stop the war, that "At the right time, we will have a position."
Christine Cegelis is a true progressive on all the issues, and, in here is her position on the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq:
"The war in Iraq has taken the lives of more than 2,000 American men and women and killed and injured tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. More than $200 billion tax dollars have been poured into the effort. Our credibility in the eyes of the world has been severely damaged. The Bush Administration's conduct in starting and executing this conflict has been a disaster from the very earliest stages.
I have opposed this war from the start. But revisiting what brought us to this disastrous point does not solve the problem. It is time for us to bring our troops home. The Bush Administration must provide a comprehensive timetable for withdrawal of the majority of our combat troops at the earliest possible date. We must bring home our 46,000 citizen soldiers of the National Guard and Reserve home as soon as possible, where they can continue their lives as our police officers, our firefighters, our workers and our neighbors. The U.S. must spell out a reasonable and detailed plan to transfer power to Iraq's military and police forces.
Defending our nation against the threat of terrorism is a top priority. The issues of Iraq and terrorism are now the same. Al-Qaeda had no link to Iraq before our invasion. Now it is a breeding ground for hatred and terror, and an ideal recruiting pool for Al-Qaeda and other terrorist networks. Extending the conflict in Iraq only gives terrorists more opportunities to foment hatred against America. Instead of lessening the threat of terrorism around the world, our war has accelerated it. We owe it to ourselves and the world to reverse this trend, and to use our foreign policy muscle to truly lessen the global reach of terror. A stable and sovereign Iraq can only occur when the U.S. becomes an ally, not an occupying force, and it is only then that we can rebuild trust in the Middle East and with the Islamic communities of the world.
We need to let the Iraqis determine their own future. This means letting them run their own political process, instead of meddling in it for our own political gain. That also means pledging that we will not operate permanent military bases in Iraq and renouncing any claims to Iraqi oil. We need to make sure that the Iraqi people understand that we have no intention of permanently occupying their country. If the Iraqis want international peacekeepers, we need to work with them to make that happen. The U.S. also needs to immediately involve other countries in the effort to rebuild Iraq. Dozens of countries have a stake in creating a stable Iraq.
The failures of this war must prevent the United States from making similar mistakes in the future. And the only way we can make sure that lesson is learned is to elect leaders who understand that lesson."
I agree with Christine Cegelis—we need our troops home as soon and as safely as possible. George Bush, the Republican Party and too many Rubber-Stamp Democrats have created a security vacuum in the Middle East and in our own country (does anyone remember Katrina and the devastation of the Gulf States?) And if we aren't careful to elect leaders who are strong on National Security by also being strong on diplomacy and peace, Iran and who knows where else is next.
As Iraq descends into a civil war prepared and propagated by the neocons with military bases and oil pipelines being constructed with very little reconstruction of Iraq's infrastructure, 82% of the Iraqi people want the occupation to end and 49% think it's just fine to kill coalition troops to do so.
Meanwhile, our own children and grandchildren will be paying for the leadership vacuum created by both of our major political parties. Bushco has put our country into deep and debilitating debt; they have made enemies for generations by their policies of terror; and we have lost and had maimed so much of our national human treasure. Bushco is spying on and imprisoning Americans and other members of humanity without due process and selling our security to the highest bidders. In the 6th Congressional District of Illinois on March 21st, a hometown grassroots progressive is being inundated by the elite forces of the D.C. Democratic Party. She and her team are being outspent and out-advertised, with money pumped in from out-of-the-district. But Cegelis and her grassroots team are not being outworked; she has deep roots in the district, and has been running nonstop for 3 years now, and she is determined to pull an upset against the Big Boys that are trying to keep the Democratic Party from responding to its antiwar base.
You can help. As I always say, it's not about "left and right." It is about "right and wrong." It's about good, not bad. It's about time to vote for peace.
It's about time for Congressional leaders like Christine Cegelis.
One of my Senators too, PLUS one from across the river in Oregon!
Cascadia, the greatest place in America.
Sorry we're full!
Don't move here!
Tourist Picture of Cascadia!
Cascadia, the greatest place in America.
Sorry we're full!
Don't move here!
Tourist Picture of Cascadia!
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Friday, 3 March 2006, 3:06 pm) [snapback]45787[/snapback]
One of my Senators too, PLUS one from across the river in Oregon!
Cascadia, the greatest place in America.
Sorry we're full!
Don't move here!
Tourist Picture of Cascadia!
LOL Sky.
Bravo to the brave opposition. 
Alas, I live in NH - where neocon John Sununu changed a few commas and became a hero fighting for our civil liberties.
Alas, I live in NH - where neocon John Sununu changed a few commas and became a hero fighting for our civil liberties.
Im thinking of moving to Victoria.
QUOTE(MasterMind @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 6:58 am) [snapback]45929[/snapback]
Im thinking of moving to Victoria.
Nah man, come hang in Japan with me.
Tons of work here, the food is awesome, and the weather is the best.
Even Ron Paul skipped the Paytriot Act Vote......nice to see he found time to vote for a day to honor Sandra O'Oonner
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votingreco...1&people=400311
QUOTE
Ron Paul
Mar 1, 2006
H.Res. 357: Honoring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Aye Passed House
Mar 1, 2006
S. 2271: USA PATRIOT Act Additional Reauthorizing Amendments...
... Act of 2006
n/a Passed Senate
Mar 1, 2006
H.Res. 357: Honoring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
Aye Passed House
Mar 1, 2006
S. 2271: USA PATRIOT Act Additional Reauthorizing Amendments...
... Act of 2006
n/a Passed Senate
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votingreco...1&people=400311
I can't believe Boxer voted yes on this. I'm gravely disappointed.
QUOTE(Libertas @ Sunday, 5 March 2006, 10:00 pm) [snapback]45949[/snapback]
I can't believe Boxer voted yes on this. I'm gravely disappointed.
Before I'm dissapointed, I'd like to know what her reasons were.
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 1:10 am) [snapback]45952[/snapback]
Before I'm dissapointed, I'd like to know what her reasons were.
I cannot think of a single justification that would help me to feel satisfied with a 'yea' vote for the Patriot Act. Of all the things that have gone wrong in this country lately, this is probably the most serious. It is certainly the most dangerous. They probably have pictures of Boxer with some 12 year old, or some other such blackmailing type thing. Or they have designed a deal for each of the 'yeas' you and your family are exempt from the encroaching powers of the act...Whichever, there has to be some catch. Its an insane act. Patriot my ass.
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 9:18 am) [snapback]45955[/snapback]
I cannot think of a single justification that would help me to feel satisfied with a 'yea' vote for the Patriot Act. Of all the things that have gone wrong in this country lately, this is probably the most serious. It is certainly the most dangerous. They probably have pictures of Boxer with some 12 year old, or some other such blackmailing type thing. Or they have designed a deal for each of the 'yeas' you and your family are exempt from the encroaching powers of the act...Whichever, there has to be some catch. Its an insane act. Patriot my ass.
Next time my email is full of solicitations asking me to "stand up and fight for this or that" from Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton, etc., I may just erase the message, OR block the sender.
Catherine
When are we going to create a real politcal party that truly opposes Republicans and stands for the little man?
How?
There's so much money invested in the status quo.... and we rely on them to pass publicly funded elections? HA!
There's so much money invested in the status quo.... and we rely on them to pass publicly funded elections? HA!
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Sunday, 5 March 2006, 11:10 pm) [snapback]45952[/snapback]
Before I'm dissapointed, I'd like to know what her reasons were.
Stand with your party no matter what Sky. Be proud to be a Democrat! That is what its all about, being a Democrat. Party loyalty above all else. I'm with ya, brother!
QUOTE(AntiFlagWaver @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 10:24 am) [snapback]45980[/snapback]
Stand with your party no matter what Sky. Be proud to be a Democrat! That is what its all about, being a Democrat. Party loyalty above all else. I'm with ya, brother!
Is that biting sarcasm I sense?
Where ya been AFW?
And if by chance, that wasn't sarcasm, SCREW PARTY LOYALTY. At this point, I am honestly voting for an in the streets revolution. I don't really see how dems getting some more seats in Nov is going to do anything to save us from this fucking debacle.
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 8:28 am) [snapback]45981[/snapback]
At this point, I am honestly voting for an in the streets revolution. I don't really see how dems getting some more seats in Nov is going to do anything to save us from this fucking debacle.
I'm with ya Left.
Screw the party, unless there's a open bar.
The only reason I vote Democrat is because they are the party that is closest to my humanitarian views. At least they pretend well to put people before corporations. But right now, I'll support people who tell the truth and stand up for Demacracy.
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 6:18 am) [snapback]45955[/snapback]
I cannot think of a single justification that would help me to feel satisfied with a 'yea' vote for the Patriot Act. Of all the things that have gone wrong in this country lately, this is probably the most serious. It is certainly the most dangerous. They probably have pictures of Boxer with some 12 year old, or some other such blackmailing type thing. Or they have designed a deal for each of the 'yeas' you and your family are exempt from the encroaching powers of the act...Whichever, there has to be some catch. Its an insane act. Patriot my ass.
I also can't imagine why, but to understand her reasons would require that I know what she knows!
She's been a pretty good progressive fighter!
So have many others who voted for the Pat Act.
I do want to know why they did!
I want to understand their justification!
That's what being an informed Liberal is all about,
Isn't it?
QUOTE(AntiFlagWaver @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 8:24 am) [snapback]45980[/snapback]
Stand with your party no matter what Sky. Be proud to be a Democrat! That is what its all about, being a Democrat. Party loyalty above all else. I'm with ya, brother!
Read above AFW,
and don't be so deliberately stupid!
Being a reactionary just like a Republican,
and NOT being a good Liberal!
Who else will tell me it's OK to assume what you know you don't know?
I will tell you that I agree with you, that I can't imagine why,
but I'm also not arrogant enough to assume I know the answer!
Now, if you still want to try bashing on me for questioning the blatantly obvious,
I'll just make you look like a stupid fool!
You see, I always though it was the Repugs who didn't need to know the truth
because they already had the answers!
I'll be damn if that's not a universal trait,
as has been proven here, on this thread!
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 8:28 am) [snapback]45981[/snapback]
Is that biting sarcasm I sense?
Where ya been AFW?
And if by chance, that wasn't sarcasm, SCREW PARTY LOYALTY. At this point, I am honestly voting for an in the streets revolution. I don't really see how dems getting some more seats in Nov is going to do anything to save us from this fucking debacle.
Lack of unity.
I can't imagine a more powerful tool in the Republican tool belt!
I'm sure the wingers are laughing at us.
They know we're correct, but also know we won't do a damn thing about it!
The Republican party is dissentegrating,
but because we cannot come together,
they will maintain their control, even as fractured as they are!
There simply is no viable alternative.
We have no other choice but to throw support behind those Democrats who DO represent us.
And remember, NONE of them will represent you 100% as you would like them too!
Be reasonable and keep your head is THIS reality!
FIRST PRIORITY IS STILL TO REMOVE THE REPUBLICANS
If we fail to do this, nothing else matters!
NOTHING!
The new world order means there is NO PLACE to run!
If I made a politcal party, it would represent the people. All these percentagies of what and who they support are just sales men. We need leaders, not sales men. Dont sale us something we dont want to buy, aka Democratic Party, when we all know its just Republican-lite.
QUOTE(MasterMind @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 12:31 pm) [snapback]46025[/snapback]
If I made a politcal party, it would represent the people. All these percentagies of what and who they support are just sales men. We need leaders, not sales men. Dont sale us something we dont want to buy, aka Democratic Party, when we all know its just Republican-lite.
But you don't have a political party!
And even if you did,
it would NOT have enough power or infrastructure to do head to head battle with them!
Does anybody but me understand this?
We Liberals are about to hand power BACK to them.
This could be a bigger sham than the 2004 elections.
Only this time, I will blame Liberals like us!
Is it any wonder the democratic party is divided?
I mean, maybe they actually DO represent us!
I'm having a hard time with this idea that no one understands what I'm trying to tell you!
Get off your idealistic row boat and fucking face the reality!
The Neo-con Republicans are about to perminantely acquire control of YOUR COUNTRY. (if they haven't already)
November is quite possibly your LAST CHANCE to stop them!
Can you dig that?
Sky,
I have a problem with the fact that because I have grown disgusted with the acts of MOST of the members of the democratic party, you equate this with my wanting to remain uninformed--as a republican. Tell you what, buddy, I am not uninformed. I read vigilantly--all sorts of opinions.
As far as the PATRIOT ACT, NO I DO NOT SUPPORT IT. And in order for me to be consitient, I must therefor, NOT SUPPORT the people who voted for it.
Sky, this doesn't mean I am any less of an American than you. It doesn't mean I have given up. It doesn't mean that I didn't fully read and/or understand your post. It means that I am SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of the bullshit games being played with MY COUNTRY.
There is NO JUSTIFICATION that will ever be sufficient to explain taking away my civil rights. Why is that so difficult for you to understand and WHY EXACTLY does this equate me with not wanting to be informed?
I DON'T KNOW WHY BOXER VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY FUCKING RIGHTS, BUT THE THING I DO KNOW IS THAT SHE VOTED 'YEA'. THAT IS PLENTY OF INFORMATION FOR ME TO FORM AN OPINION. Tell me, what exact justification could she provide that would make you feel better about her stomping on MY liberties???
I have a problem with the fact that because I have grown disgusted with the acts of MOST of the members of the democratic party, you equate this with my wanting to remain uninformed--as a republican. Tell you what, buddy, I am not uninformed. I read vigilantly--all sorts of opinions.
As far as the PATRIOT ACT, NO I DO NOT SUPPORT IT. And in order for me to be consitient, I must therefor, NOT SUPPORT the people who voted for it.
Sky, this doesn't mean I am any less of an American than you. It doesn't mean I have given up. It doesn't mean that I didn't fully read and/or understand your post. It means that I am SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of the bullshit games being played with MY COUNTRY.
QUOTE
I also can't imagine why, but to understand her reasons would require that I know what she knows!
She's been a pretty good progressive fighter!
So have many others who voted for the Pat Act.
I do want to know why they did!
I want to understand their justification!
She's been a pretty good progressive fighter!
So have many others who voted for the Pat Act.
I do want to know why they did!
I want to understand their justification!
There is NO JUSTIFICATION that will ever be sufficient to explain taking away my civil rights. Why is that so difficult for you to understand and WHY EXACTLY does this equate me with not wanting to be informed?
QUOTE
Who else will tell me it's OK to assume what you know you don't know?
I DON'T KNOW WHY BOXER VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY FUCKING RIGHTS, BUT THE THING I DO KNOW IS THAT SHE VOTED 'YEA'. THAT IS PLENTY OF INFORMATION FOR ME TO FORM AN OPINION. Tell me, what exact justification could she provide that would make you feel better about her stomping on MY liberties???
Lefty,
I'm not meaning to imply any of us are less American or less patriotic, or even having fewer good intentions!
I'm saying one thing, and only one thing!
We have no other option but to suppoet the Democratic party,
no matter how disgusted you are with them!
Thier simply is no other viable alternative,
and no one has yet offered even a BAD idea, as an alternative!
I completely agree with you, I'm mad as hell too!
But I'm not silly enough to let my anger cloud my judgement
and realization that even if I am pissed and disgusted,
I have no other viable alternative but to support these people.
Do I like it? Hell no!
I simply consider removing the Neo-cons from power
to be more important than my personal disgust!
Failure to remove the Neo-cans from Power in this country,
will be unforgivable!
Lefty,
This is exactly my point!
I'm not pleased either, and I am NOT offeriing her absolution!
I'm saying simply that she's been a good progressive fighter,
and because of that I'm inclined to believe she had reasons!
And because I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER, that answer could literally be anything!
I'm not meaning to imply any of us are less American or less patriotic, or even having fewer good intentions!
I'm saying one thing, and only one thing!
We have no other option but to suppoet the Democratic party,
no matter how disgusted you are with them!
Thier simply is no other viable alternative,
and no one has yet offered even a BAD idea, as an alternative!
I completely agree with you, I'm mad as hell too!
But I'm not silly enough to let my anger cloud my judgement
and realization that even if I am pissed and disgusted,
I have no other viable alternative but to support these people.
Do I like it? Hell no!
I simply consider removing the Neo-cons from power
to be more important than my personal disgust!
Failure to remove the Neo-cans from Power in this country,
will be unforgivable!
QUOTE
I DON'T KNOW WHY BOXER VOTED TO TAKE AWAY MY FUCKING RIGHTS, BUT THE THING I DO KNOW IS THAT SHE VOTED 'YEA'. THAT IS PLENTY OF INFORMATION FOR ME TO FORM AN OPINION. Tell me, what exact justification could she provide that would make you feel better about her stomping on MY liberties???
Lefty,
This is exactly my point!
I'm not pleased either, and I am NOT offeriing her absolution!
I'm saying simply that she's been a good progressive fighter,
and because of that I'm inclined to believe she had reasons!
And because I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER, that answer could literally be anything!
Ok. Explain to me what difference it will make to have Dems in office. Seems like they stand for the same things as Repubs.
I'll turn the question back on you.
Why not just fold our tent and let the Repugs have the field?
Might as well. All we're gonna do is piss and moan anyway!
Why not just fold our tent and let the Repugs have the field?
Might as well. All we're gonna do is piss and moan anyway!
Sky, you sound like Bush....
"Just trust me"
"I know they did bad things, but they may do good things next!"
"Anyone who is not a Democrat, will be helping the Neo-Cons take power!"
"Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah"
I would rather die than sell my soul to anyone who I thought was anything like any Lucifer.
Sky, let me put it this way, I am leery of just a simple McDonald's corporation and franchise, so how do you think I feel about any politcal party, especially one that claims that claims to be "For the People" yet votes FOR the patriot act? Lefty is right, there is no good reason to do this, save the unspoken ones. We all know those involve backstabing the people, that is w3hy they are unspoken by us.
Sky, show me this truth, all you are asking is to trust a party that is on record right now, this day as backstabing us and the day before and so on, since like blah long ago.
"Just trust me"
"I know they did bad things, but they may do good things next!"
"Anyone who is not a Democrat, will be helping the Neo-Cons take power!"
"Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah"
I would rather die than sell my soul to anyone who I thought was anything like any Lucifer.
Sky, let me put it this way, I am leery of just a simple McDonald's corporation and franchise, so how do you think I feel about any politcal party, especially one that claims that claims to be "For the People" yet votes FOR the patriot act? Lefty is right, there is no good reason to do this, save the unspoken ones. We all know those involve backstabing the people, that is w3hy they are unspoken by us.
Sky, show me this truth, all you are asking is to trust a party that is on record right now, this day as backstabing us and the day before and so on, since like blah long ago.
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 3:25 pm) [snapback]46034[/snapback]
I'll turn the question back on you.
Why not just fold our tent and let the Repugs have the field?
Might as well. All we're gonna do is piss and moan anyway!
Ok, Sky. You are not going to get me on a symantics argument. In reality, the question you posed is far different that the question I posed.
I have no intention of giving up. I also have no intention of supporting people who have themselves or their bank accounts in mind, rather than those of the people.
And, for your information, I do far more than piss and moan.
QUOTE
And, for your information, I do far more than piss and moan.
Now that is a topic I want a new thread started about.
Lefty!
Maybe he would understand you better
If you hit return alot
And used lots of exclamation points!
Sometimes you have to try to communicate
Like the other person!
To get your point across!
Maybe he would understand you better
If you hit return alot
And used lots of exclamation points!
Sometimes you have to try to communicate
Like the other person!
To get your point across!
QUOTE
I have no intention of giving up. I also have no intention of supporting people who have themselves or their bank accounts in mind, rather than those of the people.
No intention of giving up, but no intention of supporting ????
Boxer was mentioned. OK, who should replace her?
Or are you suggesting a complete rebuild 8 months before the one of most important elections in world history?
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Sunday, 5 March 2006, 11:10 pm) [snapback]45952[/snapback]
Before I'm dissapointed, I'd like to know what her reasons were.
Dear Mr. Gadzooks!:
Thank you for contacting me regarding reauthorization of the USA Patriot Act. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your concerns.
I voted for the conference report on the Patriot Act because on balance I believe this is necessary legislation to give our law enforcement officials the tools they need to protect the American people from terrorist attacks. Before the Patriot Act, various law enforcement agencies did not have the ability to share information and work together, and this was a vulnerability that needed to be fixed after 9/11.
But this was a difficult decision. The bill had flaws, and two in particular concern me the most - the so-called "sneak and peek" and library search provisions. Given my concerns about these provisions, I voted for every opportunity to make further improvements to the bill.
Ultimately I believe that by voting for the conference report I will be in a stronger position to help improve the Patriot Act in the future, working with Judiciary Committee Chairman Specter, Ranking Member Leahy and Senators Feingold and Sununu.
Thank you again for contacting me. Please be assured that I will keep working to protect both our security and the civil rights that define our freedom.
Barbara Boxer
United States Senator
Please visit my website at http://boxer.senate.gov
She's one of them...that's fucking why.
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 3:39 pm) [snapback]46042[/snapback]
No intention of giving up, but no intention of supporting ????
Boxer was mentioned. OK, who should replace her?
Or are you suggesting a complete rebuild 8 months before the one of most important elections in world history?
What I find astoudingly hillarious is that you who claim that everything is not black and white are saying this is simply a black and white issue.
I will explain, once again, what I am saying.
I WILL NEVER SUPPORT SOMEONE WHO CHOSES TO VOTE AWAY MY CIVIL LIBERTIES. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LITTLe (D) IN FRONT OF YOUR NAME, DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T BE A LYING FUCKING SCUMBALL WHO GIVES IN TO WHATEVER OUR DEAR LEADER WANTS.
There are things I can disagree with a politician on, yet still support their candidacy, but supporting and voting for the patriot act is something that I DO NOT/CANNOT allow to go unnoticed. Just saying ... well, we just don't agree on that issue is a BULLSHIT fucking cop out that I am not going to take. This comes down to what the US is. We are the LAND OF THE FREE. The partriot act takes away basically every freedom we hold dear. Do you REALIZE that this now means that if you actually did anything that dissented the WH (other than blab yer fucking mouth here), you can now be arrested as a suspected terrorist. But don't forget, beforehand they will listen to all of your phone calls, open all your mail, get your library list, root through your fucking trash, talk to your co-workers and your boss...etc. etc. etc. Need I go on? I don't see how telling me you are outraged and in the same breath saying you will continue to support this bullshit is telling me much at all. It tells me you have fallen for a line that I am begining to wonder if it weren't intentional.
Democrat=republican these days. Therefore, I remove myself from the dem party. It's that simple. I do not quit. I have not conceeded defeat. On the other hand, I think saying that you have to "wait and see" why someone would vote to take away our liberties, before you decide what you think about them is a conceit. You have quit. You have taken the bait and sit on the hook waiting to be eaten. I'm not doing it Sky. Fuck that. I believe it is time for a revolution. No kidding, no sarcasm, nothing other than the honest truth. NOTHING is going to change with the system that is in place now. You feel free to sit and wait, I am not.
_________________________
Edit upon reading Zooks response.
Does this make you feel all cozy. Ms. Priss says its necessary. Well, shit. I didn't think of that. Nevermind. She's GREAT.
FUCK THAT.
QUOTE(Pinget @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 1:36 pm) [snapback]46041[/snapback]
Lefty!
Maybe he would understand you better
If you hit return alot
And used lots of exclamation points!
Sometimes you have to try to communicate
Like the other person!
To get your point across!
Thank you for the sarcasm Ping!
Sarcasm = sideways anger!
BTW Ping, it's not a lack of understanding.
It's a lack of agreement!
QUOTE
I WILL NEVER SUPPORT SOMEONE WHO CHOSES TO VOTE AWAY MY CIVIL LIBERTIES. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LITTLe (D) IN FRONT OF YOUR NAME, DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T BE A LYING FUCKING SCUMBALL WHO GIVES IN TO WHATEVER OUR DEAR LEADER WANTS.
And what if your lack of support for what ever noble reason,
manages to give dear leader exactly what he wants?
And what if your support of a democrat for what ever noble reason,
manages to give dear leader exactly what he wants?
manages to give dear leader exactly what he wants?
What else do we do? The die is cast, the qualifying dates are past.
QUOTE(POAC @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 2:24 pm) [snapback]46048[/snapback]
And what if your support of a democrat for what ever noble reason,
manages to give dear leader exactly what he wants?
Then we're all screwed,
and nothing matters!
POAC and the WRS is completely pointless
All the great research effort from Lefty, Pointless!
If we do not perform the unlikely in November,
none of this matters!
If you do not support the Democrat, even if they are a minion of the devil,
then who?
I chose to remove my post.
Fuck it sky. Yer right, as usual. We're all idiots. Lets just toe the party line and be happy.
Fuck it sky. Yer right, as usual. We're all idiots. Lets just toe the party line and be happy.
As of yet, and I have been around this forum well over a year,
so far I have yet to see anyone offer a viable alternative!
Piss and moan yes!
But as of yet no one has proposed a plan!
Even a bad plan!
Will someone please tell me how we take the country back
with out supporting the Democrats?
And remember, we got just 8 months to get our shit together!
so far I have yet to see anyone offer a viable alternative!
Piss and moan yes!
But as of yet no one has proposed a plan!
Even a bad plan!
Will someone please tell me how we take the country back
with out supporting the Democrats?
And remember, we got just 8 months to get our shit together!
I don't think anyone is saying that its the democrats in general that must be tossed aside, but rather the ones that don't reflect our personal values. And placing issue voting over party party loyalty.
QUOTE(POAC @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 2:49 pm) [snapback]46055[/snapback]
I don't think anyone is saying that its the democrats in general that must be tossed aside, but rather the ones that don't reflect our personal values. And placing issue voting over party party loyalty.
What degree of loyalty is enough?
Who decides where the line is?
This thread started out bashing on Boxer because she voted for the Pat Act!
Up til this decision, she's been a pretty damn good Progressive foot soldier.
But some here are so angry they don't wanna support her anymore because of this decision.
OK, well nearlky all the Democrats supported this Pat Act!
Are we gonna vote against every single one of them?
Would you rather a Republican in their seat?
Remember, we have less than 8 months to figure this question out!
In fact, if we don't have the problem solved by August, it's too late!
I firmly believe with all that I am, that if there isn't a very noticable
shift in the power balance come November, none of this discussion will matter!
We have managed to piss away all our other chances with similer "discussions".
Now we got one chance left!
What shall we do?
Gimme a plan!
A Viable alternative!
Sky,
It seems that there are only ever two options when discussing things with you.
Either you have to vote Democrat because there is no alternative, or you have to give up.
Isn't your country the "land of opportunity?"
There have to be more options available.
Now that is a topic I want a new thread started about.
Me too
It seems that there are only ever two options when discussing things with you.
Either you have to vote Democrat because there is no alternative, or you have to give up.
Isn't your country the "land of opportunity?"
There have to be more options available.
QUOTE(MasterMind @ Tuesday, 7 March 2006, 6:31 am) [snapback]46040[/snapback]
Now that is a topic I want a new thread started about.
Me too
I think this whole "dilemma" of what we are going threw here was planned. What better way to keep us busy then have us have to fight our own leadership, wellwhat is left of one.
QUOTE(MasterMind @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 6:59 pm) [snapback]46073[/snapback]
I think this whole "dilemma" of what we are going threw here was planned. What better way to keep us busy then have us have to fight our own leadership, wellwhat is left of one.
I'm wondering if you aren't correct, MM. I have been thinking about it all day. I simply don't understand why more Dems didn't stand up and say hell no to the Patriot Act. I wonder why this happened. There has to have been some back door deals made. I just don't know what.
As for Sky's comment about not backing Boxer anymore...YES, voting Yea to the patriot act is the LINE that I draw. I don't get to vote in CA elections, in fact, I won't get the chance to vote any of the pricks who voted yea out. But I will get the chance to vote out Trent Lott and Thad Cochran. And I WILL VOTE AGAINST THEM. Whether that be for a dem or not, remains to be seen.
Scorp and MM,
And I missing something with the piss and moan thread??? HMMMM???
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Tuesday, 7 March 2006, 10:18 am) [snapback]46084[/snapback]
I'm wondering if you aren't correct, MM. I have been thinking about it all day. I simply don't understand why more Dems didn't stand up and say hell no to the Patriot Act. I wonder why this happened. There has to have been some back door deals made. I just don't know what.
As for Sky's comment about not backing Boxer anymore...YES, voting Yea to the patriot act is the LINE that I draw. I don't get to vote in CA elections, in fact, I won't get the chance to vote any of the pricks who voted yea out. But I will get the chance to vote out Trent Lott and Thad Cochran. And I WILL VOTE AGAINST THEM. Whether that be for a dem or not, remains to be seen.
Scorp and MM,
And I missing something with the piss and moan thread??? HMMMM???
Great post lefty.
The Patriot Act is an astonishgly terrible piece of legislation, and anybody who supports it should not be in gov't, Dem OR Repug.
As for the piss / moan thing, we're just curious about your extra-curricular activites. Do you like volleyball?
QUOTE(rcorporon @ Monday, 6 March 2006, 7:26 pm) [snapback]46088[/snapback]
Great post lefty.
The Patriot Act is an astonishgly terrible piece of legislation, and anybody who supports it should not be in gov't, Dem OR Repug.
As for the piss / moan thing, we're just curious about your extra-curricular activites. Do you like volleyball?
Hm, I'm a little nervous to answer, because I feel like I am part of a joke I don't get or something.
QUOTE(leftinrightsouth @ Tuesday, 7 March 2006, 10:28 am) [snapback]46089[/snapback]
Hm, I'm a little nervous to answer, because I feel like I am part of a joke I don't get or something.
I was just goofing around.
Forget about it
Sarcasm is an powerful weapon. I need to use it more. 
Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "pissing", "moaning", "bitching", and "whining" is getting a little old, Sky. Isn't that kind of like, in its own way, Bush saying the terrorist "hate us for our freedom"? Its all that you can come up with without having to really recognize something you don't want to see.
Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of "pissing", "moaning", "bitching", and "whining" is getting a little old, Sky. Isn't that kind of like, in its own way, Bush saying the terrorist "hate us for our freedom"? Its all that you can come up with without having to really recognize something you don't want to see.
QUOTE
Hm, I'm a little nervous to answer, because I feel like I am part of a joke I don't get or something.
It is more akin to adolecent flirting then a joke. Sorry if you took it that way.
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