Why DID PNAC post their plans on the net?

WHY are they still there?

If you were going to start in motion some great master plan to take over the world, would you post it on the internet for every Tom, Dick and Harry to find? Wouldn't you guard it, hide it, um...NOT post it on the internet?

What's the intention here? Is it that they have gotten so far up their own asses that they truly think every American is so stupid that NO ONE would ever even read it, or if they did, they certainly wouldn't understand the implications of such a "manifesto"?

Or is there a different reason? Is it a decoy? A distraction? A partial truth?...something to lead us truthseekers in a direction, while the shit's going down in the complete opposite direction?

I don't know...what do you guys think?

I've wondered if it's a distraction too.

You'll know when it's too late.

I think they posted it in the first place because they hadn't expected to be so successful politically.
But, after Bush got elected, then got elected again, they became arrogant.
The site stays up as a billboard to advertise their ideology
and will remain up as long as the Neocons control the Republican party,
and the Republican party remains in control of all 3 branches of government!


Until pundets like Malkin, Coulter OReilly and all of Fox news fail to get enough ratings
to remian profitable, the PNAC will remain in full public view.

Maybe I can shed some light.


I think they do it for several reasons.

One, they really do believe this stuff, it is akin to us posting online. They believe it is the truth and they cant believe we post what we do. We are all the same, we just have different ideologies and some times different methods, but at the core we are all westeners and we all think in the same patterns. So, the question you should ask yourself is this, why would you hide the truth?


Second, I found their site before I found this one. When I found this site, I was an Imperialist and a huge supporter of those views. This site changed that, now if I never found this site, would their site seem all that harmful to me?


Third, they need to spread their propaganda just like everyone else.

Ok, I have to really disagree. Even die-hard republicans I know, when it comes down to it, are quite decent people. They actually believe in smaller government, a good homeland security force, more personal or state control of basic laws and freedoms. They go to church (more often than not), they love their children, they HAVE children in the military, they DON'T think that the US should police and/or rule the world...seriously, most republicans are unvocal. They just do their job, take care of their family, etc. I may personal disagree with their "ideology" but I cannot "hate" their person, because they are--what I would call--good people. NONE of the people I know, and granted, I don't know everyone, but the people I've met, know casually or through work, hell, even through talking to them at walmart, would NEVER, EVER, EVER agree with the things that the PNAC proposes happen in this world.



PNAC has posted their ideology for world domination in a nice step-by-step plan for all to see...yet, they do not publicize their plan. They don't do, as MM says, the things that we progressives do. Coultier and all the other right whack-jobs NEVER refer to the PNAC plan. In fact, I dare say they wouldn't admit to believing that we have the right to even do most of the things outlined in the plan. Certainly, I do believe that MSM is aware of the PNAC agenda, it would be foolish to assume otherwise, but I do not think that POAC and PNAC are even in the same planet when it comes to the things we advocate. We are not the same, hearing arguments about how all "westerners" are the same generally piss me off.



On this count, MM, I would like to believe that you were/are not the norm. As I stated above, I believe that most republicans are NOT imperialists.


-------------------
As far as what Sky commented on....



Don't you think, Sky, that Bush getting "elected" was all part of the implementation of the plan in the first place?

Absolutely!
Only as I said, I don't think they thought they would get so lucky!

Bush is a puppet! He is still the vame village idiot he was before 9/11,
and they know it! That's why they selected him!
I think these neocons of the PNAC were giddy drunk with their fortune.

I believe they took that fortune just as far as they could.
I believe that today they now see how far they over extended themselves
and are nor about to drop off into history,
but before they go, they are gonna try to instigate as much of the agenda as they can.

They simply do not care who gets hurt by any of it!
They see them selves as being above, seperate and not part of the same humanity!


Yes, having GWB get elected was an action of the PNAC to further it's adenda.
When Bush sat there for all that time reading "My Pet Goat",
Look at the expression on his face.

The man was in utter shock, and had no idea what to do next!
I think even if he had to pee, right then he would have been unable to move!

You are talking about a completly different breed of Republican here. Just like there are different type of liberals. The people you are talking about are considered the "sheep" to the PNAC people. They consider themselves the "sheppereds" of course.






Really? Its not common for you to meet someone who believes in American superiority? That Democracy should be spread across the globe? That America is the greatist nation and we have all the world champions in sports? Never think of Imperialism as just a miltiary conquest, Myself, I was a economic Imperialist, I believed we chould "buy" the world.

In fact, that is the biggist misconception, is you expect these guys to be warmongers, but they are not. They are only use war to make MONEY. They dont care about bloodshed and the horrors of war anymore then we do, hell most of them have fleed from battle in some sort of way. They want an Economic based Global nation.

Now, considering all that, do you really think my previous views are all that rare or you just denying the obvious, that we really are in the minority and America culture demands individual gain at the expense of all others?

No, I don't think imperialistic fantasies are all that common.
I think your average Republican is not imperialistic, and just want to make a good profit on this years crop!
I think one of the reasons the Republican party is today falling apart, is an aspect of the Majority or Republicans NOT feeling properly represented by THEIR government, the one that THOUGHT they had elected!



Yes, they ARE warmongers. For profit or ideology doesn't change the bottom line! And if you can effect ideology to attain greater profits, (shrug) OK! You are correct though in that they have all avoided war, but I don't see how this matters in this argument.




Now, considering all this, i consider your views to be your own, and no, I don't think they're all that common! Which is not to say they are rare either! If someone does not agree with you, maybe it's you that refuses to recognise the obvious? (and I thought I was arrogant?)


I think you confuse the visable with being the majority, that, of your world is predominated by really unhappy people! The majority of Americans are basically liberal, though many deny it! (I can't count how many discussions I have had with self professed Conservatives who I was able to point out just how liberal they really were. Pissed um off good too!)

Most people are just human beings like all other human beings.
No one is perfect, but we're all pretty amazing!
Sometimes, we just don't agree.
And sometimes, some people are just plain bad.
But on the other hand, some are just plain good!


You may decide I have simply decided to refuse to see the obvious truth.
But then again, I may have decided the same thing about you!

So you are saying that illusions of grander, dreams about rulling the world, being the alpha male, blah, blah blah male crap is not common? IT IS IN OUR GENES to envision ruling. Did you ever take anything remotely close to psychology? The Republican party falling apart has nothing to do with BushCo, they used them just like they used you. Do you not feel the "Man" within you? I know it sounds sexist or what ever, but its the truth, men are natural born preditors anyone who tells you different, means they think you are prey.



Sky, do you understand what a Liberal and a Conservative is? It is wholly possible to be an Imperialist and be liberal. You have the Spanish and British empires in your mind clouding all the varients of Imperialism. You are applying it only to war. Oh need proof? Ever hear of the Enlightened Monarchs? Now I am sure they wanted to keep things under a Autocracy (Conservative), yet wanted social expansion for the people (Liberial) and they wanted to expand their empire and its influence both by military and by economics, more focus on the economics.

Oh and Sky, everyone in my world is happy, you want to know why they dont care what Bush does to America economicly? Because we are poor and it didnt matter if You where president or Bush, we are so poor, that it doesnt effect our mood. Maybe you are the one who is looked up in his own little world and is arrogant about that?



These guys are not warmongers, they hate war more then you do, they have just detached themselves from the reality of war and see only the dollar signs it creates. They use War as a tool, nothing more.

Explain to me Sky how I am wrong and how you know, from your personal observations? Of what, Imperialist? Republicans? Neo-Cons? You know nothing about them, only misconceptions you hear or read about. I can very well be wrong and hope I am wrong, but bottom line Sky, the only way you could know more then me about being an Imperialist or a Neo-Con (two different things mind you) is if you are one right now.




What is that comment for? Just cant resist attacking the person instead of the message? I do not refuse to recognize things. Where do you even come off with a statement like that?




Oh, I wasnt talking about Bush. This goes far beyond that and if you think that is Americas only problem, I have a wonderful time share I would love to show you. It is absolutely fabulous.




SO why do you reply to my posts? Hell you have even said you will not talk to me anymore and I have been curtious and not posted replies to your comments this whole time, yet now you are started to bagger me again, is there no quarter with you, sir? Do you wish so much that people will give you attention, that you must reply to every single post you see here? Sky, you keep baggering me and I will get down right rude.

Please Sky, for your sake, put me on ignore. You obviously cant control yourself, so take some measures to help yourself fight the addiction of posting to my messages, I know its going to be hard, but you said you where going to do it, so why dont you just WALK THE TALK and leave me the fuck alone.

I am dissappointed with the direction this has all taken. I was hoping to stimulate conversation and get some new ideas going here.

MM, I accept that the things you have stated are your opinion. I do not have any desire to argue with you. Though, I will say that the things you stated about men wanting to dominate definitely got my hackles up, but I am not going to even bite and start arguing with you.

Please, others, don't feel put off by the above "arguing", please share your ideas.

Do not presume on me MM.
This would be your biggest mistake!



As I have noticed and stated before,
I see the civility generated by putting a face to the text is quickly dissapearing,
and that didn't take very long!



I predict that this trend will continue.



EDIT TO ADD.....

All of this has been deleted,
and was instead sent directly via PM.

It is my desire to maintain a degree of peaceful harmony on this forum.

OK, I just called the PNAC and asked them "what were you thinking with posting your master plan on the net?".

The answer:

"Suck it!" And they hung up the phone.


ok, I'm kidding, but you could call and ask.

202-293-4983


Here's what I think. (Great question BTW, Lefty)

MM is right. Of course they believe what they are doing is right. And in some aspects, they were well intentioned. You think the nazi party thought they were doing evil? They didn't. They totally believed what they were doing was better for all of humanity. It wasn't, but they believed it was.

The first thing to keep in mind is that when Rummy, Perle, Wolfowitz, et al. were in lower levels of the Pentagon and State Department, they had a nickname: "The crazies". That's what they were known as. So that needs to be kept in mind.

Now take a look at the name of the document that called for the invasion of the middle East. It was "rebuilding America's defenses". It talks about spreading freedom and democracy... not death and corporatism. These guys honestly believed that Iraq would be a cakewalk, Iraqi oil would pay for it, that democracy would flourish in the region, all of the world would admire us, and neighboring countries would follow suit. And if the guys running Washington hadn't gotten so damn greedy, it very well could have happened that way.

What's more important is what they don't say. Such as who's going to profit, what kind of shady characters are we going to have to align ourselves with, and what exactly they meant by "protecting US interests", and most importantly, what's the back-up plan if things don't go as planned.

It's also important to note that the PNAC and thier neocon rag, the Weekly Standard, have been really critical of how the administration has handled the situation. PNAC founder Bill Kristol has written several editorials denouncing Bush's handling of the Iraq war.

It wasn't supposed to go like this and there was never any thought to them being seen as villians for it.

Why are the documents are still online to this day? Good question. Maybe because they feel it was a good plan, but the people who implemented it are to blame for its failure.

Why is this not mainstream news? Because of the liberal media, of course. Actually, interestingly, in fascist regimes and regimes that exert control over the media, there are always taboo subjects that are not to be discussed openly. The PNAC is obviously that taboo issue.

I guess you may be right. I just don't know. I seriously wonder what the plan is...

I know Bush fucked it up, but can these so-called intellectuals actually have been so stupid as to NOT see what a bumbling fucking idiot Bush is? Was it really that hard to guess that he would fuck up the presidency just like he did so many companies he was involved in in the past? Did they not see how very much Bush jr. was set to avenge his father's failed Iraq experience and the "threat" on his life by Sadam? COME ON, there are interviews from 10-12 years ago where he talks about wanting to get those big bad Eye-rack-ees for trying to assassinate his deddie.

I just don't get how people who presume to be so smart are so stupid. Doesn't add up in my head.

Thousands of websites are constructed and never updated or taken down.


Perhaps they just hadn't thought about taking it down,
as in they have other, more pressing issues such as,
their legal defenses?

And thoug taking it down might remove if from current view,
it's certain thousands have screen saves of the whole thing.
So why bother?

I just called...a recording...press 3 for so-and-so, 4 for blah-blah....voicemail. I didn't leave a message.
So, thanks to you TJ my phone number probably got added to another list.

I don't think they give a shit whether we know their plans or not. We've objected all along and they haven't stopped. Most people I know never heard of PNAC. They're not interested. It's "conspiracy theory" stuff to the uninformed.
Perle and Wolfowitz are still there, Kristol is still there, Feith too. We don't get to decide. They do. They stole two pretzeldential elections in order to implement their plan and nothing short of a MAJOR indisputable defeat at the polls will stop them...briefly. Mention Bilderberg Group to people, glazed eyes. Mention Rev. Moon, glazed eyes. DARPA....glazed, glazed, glazed. Same with PNAC. Only people interested in the truth even go there. They took down the TIA site (thanks, Memory Hole) because the eye in the pyramid scared a few people.
PNAC requires reading, comprehension and discussion.
Most folks can only understand their TV Guide.

And that IS a good question, Lefty. Thanks.
They're watching us and keeping track of who goes to PNAC, no doubt.

Just wanted to toss my thought in the mix here... I have stood by this gut instinct thought ever since the first time I read the PNAC's Rebuilding America's Defenses> first of all , the NeoCONS knew Bush would win, THEY CHEATED. They posted the PNAC RAD just two months before Bush was selected because of their perfectly timed scheme> they were inciting the terrorists of the world, ANY TERRORIST, preferably Arab, so that they could go to Congress and make a vote to invade Iraq... and then from there, the PNAC Military Industrial Complex Coup took power. Did they care that Iraq was not the attacker the day of 9/11> NO , OF COURSE NOT, the spin was already planned out before 9/11 because PNAC PROVOKED 9/11.

Now if John or Jane Doe generated and posted mass murder war plans against another nation on the 'net , what would happen to them?

They probably also feel that their agenda has been validated by their success. Repubs in congress are probably the same way, once they would have dismissed much of the PNAC manifesto as the domain of whackos but now that it's creators have them wallowing in money and power they see it as a pretty good thing.

"Success" meaning the contractors got theirs after paying off the Bushevites? There are some bloggers that perceive PNAC as simply a huge illegal mega-lobby for military contractors. "The good thing" is endless war for a non-stop money-making-machine, which of course, was what Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" was all about.

Good point, yankhadenuf. They knew who their initial audience/victims would be...yes, and the fact that a few wild and crazy libruls also had a gander just made us look more bonkers in the eyes of Joe and Joetta Six-pack.
(I just realized I don't know what NASCAR actually stands for. Cars racing around in circles wasting gas while large crowds watch, hoping for a bad crash....that's all I know. It's not political so I don't care. No offense meant to racers or racing fans or car people, gear heads, etc. )

Success meaning just what I said: wallowing in money and power.

As always I am entering this late.... However, great great question!!! Great questions spark debate. Debate about the original questions/issue's has always been why we have the forum.

Now, the reason I quoted above is due to my past work experience in the non profit sector. The PNAC is a "child" organization of a "parent" organizaton.



What does this mean? Well, the parent organization solicites all the funds for it's project ... aka "child organizaiton" The websites need to stay active as does contact information to keep the funded project appearing active. There reasoning for staying on-line with the basic information is vital for funding. Where does the funding come from... several organizations that support the "ideology" on paper. That doesn't mean they support the current endeavors... however the "golden" ideology that mastermind initially believed in. In order to get funding you are just as specific as you need to be. The rest is politicing/hand shaking/ass kissing/ and favor trading. Thus the non profit sector is a "round robin" of funds. (TJ and his great volunteer research staff are working on more to come)

Now with that stated, they can't take down their projects... especially as federal funding are indirectly supporting this initiative. The board is a cross over. The location is a cross over. The funding are all cross over's from the parent organization.

Secondly. The PNAC is a well written document that has been hidden from main stream media. In order for them to recieve funding they have to publish. Non profits are NOT secretive organizations. Their financial statements are open for review (if requested) their board changes have to be submitted to their secretary of state as well as financials, UCC debt instruments, etc. etc. etc. The problem we as Americans have had is way too many american's get their news from TV... and to quote one of my brothers "We haven't had real reporting since Walter Kronkit during vietnam." (too young to remember.. so I quote him.)

Thirdly, the document is NOT written in inflammatory language. The average american, especially those that are of the WWII/Korean War era would be more prone to believe in the ideology of this document. We have more citizens of this age group than of any other at the moment. It was an era of national pride, of American's stive to change the world. We had just defeated one facist regime and were engaged in defeating another. My father, if he ever read this, would probably agree with the ideology that was presented. Also, a sociology point to remember is that as we all get older we (human nature) tend to become more conservative. Especially fiscally. Even the most social liberal becomes more fiscally conservative. (My late brother and his wife... are prime examples. Complete hippies...burning of the bra... never to wear one again, harley boy which the fast lane is more exciting... thus concluded to business owners needing the fical conservation to stay afloat.)

Finally, Did they want their message released? YES. WHy? Funding. The New Citizen project is in every college town, in every major city as a grassroots organization... (can we say young republicans? Where do they get their funding) The initial project may be a mute point as their initial objectives have been completed.... however, their overall domaniance of the "parent" organization is still making strides on main stream americans.

Sorry for the diatribe. My 2cents are over.

Thanks for listening.

True. Another great point.
PNAC is a good thing for Republicans (and some Democrats) in on the deals.

One last thought to my diatribe.

They are not "Republicans". They are crazy far right...did I say crazy... fundamentalists. They tout they were "liberals" initially that turned conservative. They are NOT conservatives. The Men that make up the minority. The 15% minority that votes consistently thus electing who they wish. They politiced their way into the white house by corporate lobbying, by under the table deals... all with federal/independ grant organziton money.

(plug for the 15% solution by Jonathan Westmister...available in our store)


During the Clinton administration they were known as the "crazies". I don't think much has changed.

Then the next question I have is:do they view "success" as more important than their own self-preservation? I've gotten to the point( since the Dubai port scandal ) that I no longer fear them bankrupting the US for greed, but jeapordizing our lives AND THEIR OWN LIVES for greed.

Well stated Panda. The PNAC has been hidden from light on both sides of the spectrum. The dem's have't brought this to light either. It's politicing at it's "best" aka worst. However, until we can get new blood that hasn't been tainted by this we will see this organization continue. I see day in and day out... the new "breed" of politicians that they are bringing up. Look into the New citizen project. That is the "mastermind" behind this all. They are funding their next 20/30/40/50 years of controlled/facist regimes.

I ask you... what is it that democrates are doing? Sorry I'll start another thread so I don't steal this one.

Link in a minute.

Hells bells, Ronnie, I didn't know they funded those "young" Republicans.
That whole post makes too much sense.
BTW who might have requested their financials?
Anyone in MSM? Authors? Books you know of?

Which brings up a very curious factor... before bloggers and then later the public at large knew them as "the cabal", all the Washington insiders during the Clinton Administration did indeed know them as "the crazies". So why did so many Washington insiders vote for the IRAQ RESOLUTION, when they themselves called the authors of it "the crazies" back before then ???

A: We are bankrupt. Amerians own less than Arab of Emerienc (can't spell) and China combined.

B: I seriously can't believe the american people would let a royal monarchey control our democratic ports. What is in it for us?

C: Social Security/federal pension are being spent at will. Federal spending at a record high/ federal budget cuts for social programs at a record high.... corporate outsourcing at a record high.

D: "Success vs. self preservation?"
1: Greed capitolized their agenda. They "did" Iraq with no reporting for a year. It was when they didn't turn over the contracts to local Iraqi companies that things became ugly. They either brought in already formed american companies or created new ones to capitolize on the profit margin. This created the soldiers deaths and civil war.

2: Again, look up new citizen project on google.. They are in your back yard... and they are surviving.

New Citizenship Project is the master plan of the spin-off PNAC (once headed by John McCain!) So the voting machine cheating operation , if still in place in 2008, will be the vehicle of the smooth transition of Neocon puppet to NeoCON despot> JOHN MCCAIN

Panda...

A: It is purley my own specultaion at this point that they fund the "young" republicans. Research is still occuring on this. (sorry folks... more to come on the main page, research take time... especially since we can't pay the wonderull dedicated volunteer research staff that is working so diligenltly)

B: There is an organization called guide star ( on the net) I researched this when I was unemployed in Kansas City and requested their financials... however NEVER recieved them. I don't have time today... (Ya all know the working woman behind the man sydrom.. we have to have benefits! Hillary's health care isn't anytime in our near future) You need to register for guide star but it has plenty of information. The other way of requesting information is to call and write the organization directly. They have to provide them due to non profit laws.

C: No books to date that I know of... however, I think that would make a wonder POAC exclusive with TJ and his researchers!

I have personally researched the New Citizenship Project in great detail. Right here on my desk I have stacks and stacks of financial statements, IRS reports, every public document possible for the NCP, the Philanthropic Roundtable and PNAC, as they are all located in the same building...NCP is the parent of PNAC, but the Philanthropic Roundtable is stated to be a separate organization...but who really believes that. Shit, they have the same freaking phone number (which no one answers) and address.

The top funders of these 2 organizations are 5 specific other foundations (I won't go into the details, as it would only make this post longer), but the funny (not ha ha funny)/ironic thing is that the 5 foundations that support NCP and PR are all funded by each other. And all originated by very wealthy, very Straussian businessmen--some founded over a hundred years ago. If you do a little searching (or just ask me for the docs) you can see for yourselves that these 5 foundations support ALL of the "think tanks" that you constantly hear on the MSM telling us what our opinions/options are. NCP was founded in the 80's (or early 90's==not looking at the doc this moment) and you can go back for at least 100 years before that following a line of "leaders" of many countries, including many from the US, of course, that all have led to the culmination of the NCP (specifically PNAC).

I know there are those out there that say every generation has their own terrifying possibilities, but somehow each generation makes it to produce another...but I have to be sceptical and say that I'm not so sure we are going to be lucky enough to see our children, or maybe grandchildren in the world as we know it today.

When enough of the "wealth" of the world becomes consolidated in such a percentage of families/corporations, no good can come out of it, because we are all essentially at will of their dictates. Do you really think that the american oil companies are looking for renewable/new more effecient resources for energy? Hell no, if they were they would just finising the work that could easily be implemented in sustainable energy sources, such as wind, solar, hell even waste energy is an enormous, as yet, underutilized source of energy. The reason these companies are so big is because of two things...(1) they are deeply entrenched in the whole PNAC/one world order thing and (2) they have yet to exploit every pristine place left on the planet and rape it of its oil and natural gas. While these resources are limited, there are still vast amounts avaliable, and right now, the money's too good to stop. Wind power is WAY too cheap. Who could harnes the wind? ANYONE. Why the hell would they want to make technologies avaliable that could actually be cheap, non-envasive and easily implimented? Because we would no longer be dependant on ExxonMobil, TexacoChevron (um, is it even the least bit creepy to anyone how the companies just swallow each other up and become mega-companies?)

I don't know why PNAC was so brazen as to publish their information on the web. I've had a good bit of experience in the non-profit world myself and I know that while some amount of transparency is required, it is not a requirement that everything be published on the internet, so I still feel there MUST be another reason. And I tend to NOT be a conspiracy theoorist, but I sometimes wonder if maybe there's some hidden meaning...like soemthing out of a movie...where they use the text as a code to lead to the right information or something. Its just all too obvious.

Sorry this is just a huge rant and probably nearly incomprehensible, I apologize. I've had a terrible day and needed a good rant!

I had a great response.. then accidently hit delete... I''ll get back to this. I'm off all weekend.

OK, I Googled.
Between TJ and Robin my brain might explode.


THE LINK


New Citizenship Project
From SourceWatch

New Citizenship Project (also New Citizenship Project, Inc.) is a non-profit organization funded by large right-wing foundations. Founded in 1994, NCP initiated the Project for the New American Century, one of the key behind-the-scenes architects of the Bush administration's foreign policy. According to his senate biography, John McCain served as a president of NCP, "an organization created to promote greater civic participation in our national life."[1] (http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Newscenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=684)

NCP shares the same address and suite as PNAC. According to NCP's listing in The Right Guide, NCP and the Philanthropy Roundtable share the same phone number. The Philanthropy Roundtable (http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/)'s office is on the same floor of the same office building as PNAC and NCP.

In 1996, the Council on Crime in America, another NCP project, authored a report The State of Violent Crime in America (http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=4389) which was published by the Heartland Institute. The Council., which appears to have only been briefly active in 1996, was chaired by former "Drug Czar" William Bennett and former Attorney General Griffin Bell. McCain also served on the Council.[2] (http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Newscenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=684)

per [3] (http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm)
Chairman: William Kristol
President: Gary J. Schmitt

The watchdog group "Media Transparency, the Money Behind the Media"[4] (http://www.mediatransparency.org), reports 47 grants totalling $2,722,900 given to the New Citizenship Project from 1994 through 2001.

Funding sources appear to be exclusively from three far right-wing neo-conservative think tank funders:

* The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation of Milwaukee, Wisconsin[5] (http://www.bradleyfdn.org/): This is the primary sponsor of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), which was the recipient of over a million dollars in 2001 alone. "By way of a program known as the New Citizenship Project, Inc., PNAC Project for the New American Century received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation."[6] (http://www.endthewar.org/Downloads/CLIflyer.rtf)
* John M. Olin Foundation, Inc. of New York[7] (http://www.JMOF.org): This foundation grew out of a family manufacturing business (chemical and munitions) and funds right-wing think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy Change, and the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace.[8] (http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipientgrants.php?258)
* Scaife Foundations -- Sarah Mellon Scaife Foundation[9] (http://www.scaife.com) and Scaife Family Foundation[10] (http://www.Scaife.com) -- in New York: These foundations are financed by the Mellon industrial, oil, and banking fortune.[11] (http://www.mediatransparency.org/funderprofile.php?funderID=3)

The John M. Olin Foundation, Inc. listed grants in 1997 show the subtitle for The New Citizenship Project as the "Project for the Next American Century." It clearly appears that the origninal 1994 PNAC concept has become the current Project for the New American Century.[12] (http://www.jmof.org/grants/1997n.htm)

"...the New Citizenship Project, an affiliate of the Project for the Republican Future, a conservative G.O.P. think tank founded by William Kristol."[13] (http://www.ccldp.org/pdf/report_walters.pdf)

From the 2000 edition of "The Right Guide (published by Economics America, Ann Arbor, MI):

New Citizenship Project
1150 17th St., NW Ste 510
Washington DC 20036
Phone: 202-822-8333
Fax: 202-822-8325

Contact person: John Walters, President
Officers or Principals: William Kristol, Chairman; Jay P. Lefkowitz, Director.
Mission or Interest: "To restore American self-government and civil society." Public policy organization focusing on the AmeriCorps program, drugs and crime, affirmative action, and other issues.
Accomplishments: In 1997 the Project spent $194,859 on its programs.
Total Revenue: 1997 $152,008
Total Expenses: $219,815 -- 89% Program Services, 9% Management and general, 3% Fundraising Net Assets: $72,276
Tax Statuts: 501©3
Financial Information: In 1997 grants received included $50,000 from the Sarah Scaife Foundation, $50,000 from the John M. Olin foundation, $37,000 from the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, and $35,000 from the Scaife Family Foundation.
Background Information: Established in 1994.


I see several names here that are of considerable interest to me.


EDIT TO ADD....

None of this is news to some of you, and I knew some of this stuff.
But it changes perspective when you see someone else say it.


Lefty. Hang in there.
There is still a lot of beauty in the world.
Of this I have absolutely no doubt!

Just remember,
when you go skinny dipping in the septic tank
everything smells kinda shitty!

Lefty , you might like these PoliticalFriendster threads, it's where I found a lot of NCP/PNAC connections in "one spot" , so to speak . I learned about their three primary funding foundations this way: the Olins, the Bradleys, the Scaifes>


http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPer...zenship-Project

Click on all the links to the other threads> fascinating how the dots just keep on connecting!

Thanks for bringing Philanthropic Roundtable to my attention, Lefty! > I didn't notice it till you did!

You've done a lot of research , as well as TJ & Ronnie, so you all may know this... my Dad and me have an ongoing debate > he keeps saying the Trilateral Commission is PNAC , just changed names. I keep telling him they are simply same concept from different roots, not the same organizational history changed names.
PLEASE SETTLE THIS ONCE & FOR ALL


PS

Chairman: William Kristol
President: Gary J. Schmitt

Geez, Kristol and Schmitt are running the whole country, the whole damn war mess, and the public don't even know it... ironic yet FRUSTRATING !

First, I just want to say that after reading the threads previous to this one, I have learned a lot and I was schooled. It makes what ever I type look like something that just fell out of my mouth and I need to think more clearly on my posts.

Second, the consolidations of companies began in the early 80's due to "Imperialist" views being brought from the military companies into the board rooms of many other types of business. They brought readings like "The Art of War" and "The Book of the Five Rings" as they entered from 60's era military companies; they needed main stream companies to keep them "afloat". After the 902' they pretty much made all main stream companies owned by only a several "parent" companies, next target...the world.

The Bush's are not the first family to rule the white house in this manner: they are just modern selective breeding mixtures from such old families as the Tafts, Harrisons, Whitneys, and many other prominent and mega-wealthy families. This is just the modern day monarchy playing it self out.

Check it out! :

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/directors.html

"...Michael W. Grebe

Michael W. Grebe is president of the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation. Mr. Grebe served on the Bradley board of directors for six years before being named as president. Prior to joining the Bradley Foundation, Mr. Grebe was chairman and CEO of Foley & Lardner where he was a partner for more than 25 years. An army veteran of Vietnam and former Republican National Committeeman for Wisconsin, Grebe has served on numerous boards, including stints at the Wisconsin Board of Veterans Affairs, the University of Wisconsin's Board of Regents, Stanford's Hoover Institution, the Oskosh Truck Company, and the Milwaukee Brewers Baseball Club.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Piereson

James Piereson is executive director and trustee of the John M. Olin Foundation in New York City. Before joining the foundation in 1981, Mr. Piereson was a member of the political science faculty at the University of Pennsylvania. He also serves as a member of the board of The Philanthropy Roundtable and is a member of the board of overseers of the Hoover Institution..."

Can't these foundations make up their minds> Do they want to make love or make war?
(In the same building even, go figure!)

uh-oh, I humbly disagree with you TJ! The Nazis, they were misled by the "crazies" , but Hitler and his inner circle were crazy like foxes and not "good" in intentions... they planned a very-well orchestrated propaganda spin machine via Goebbels that is infamous to this day to intentionally mislead the masses on purpose, for POWER, not public service to mankind. No, any "good" the Hitlerians did for the German peoples was used as "carrot sticks" to bring on subtle and gradual submission to the Fuhrer and his Third Reich. Today, to many bloggers it is as if Rove is wearing Goebbels skin!

No, I strongly believe the initial audience of the R. A. D. plan was targetted and the very enemy PNAC was hoping to incite, any terrrorist of Arab extraction. It gave the Straussian methodology of PNAC/Bushco the fuel to continue their anti-Arab/anti-Islamic rhetoric to get the votes to march to Iraq, even though Iraquis did nothing to us!

PNAC & Rove are very insidiously clever , since everyone is totally paranoid of appearing anti-Semetic this day and age, but it never occurred to the American masses that PNACers (Neocons ARE a strange-bedfellows marriage = Zionists + Fascists, this fact is undeniable) would use the same anti-Semetic methodology against the Arab world instead, and get away with killing multitudes of innocent Iraquis...but they did, or should I say, THEY DO!!!

Bushco convinced the majority of Congress and Americans with non-stop rhetoric (what we vehemently say are LIES) in the rush to war in 2002-2003 that the "Axis of Evil" and the "Evildoers" were one and the same... and Rove sealed it in millions of American minds that that meant Arab> bad, American> good , and there was no other way to seperate an Iraqui from a Saudi/Dubai Al-Quaeda-backed 9/11 terrorist at that point. To do so would be UNPATRIOTIC ( another lying spin machine that Rove mimicked Goebbels to the letter!)

The very reason this port deal with UAE/Bushco is trying so hard to take place is "helping national security" ? All this to "help mankind"? I think not! It's so the Military Industrial Coup can , as Ike Eisenhower warned us about and as soon2b said, be "wallowing in money and power".

Sorry, but on this one I fall in with TJ's argument.
The Nazi's original intention was built on good intentions.

It degenerated and became something else.
When the plan didn't work, started to fall apart,
it became a band aid collection with new actors entering the game.

Hitler was an idealist! Fucked up in the head, but an idealist anyway!
He did what he did to take power for reasons of idealism!

That doesn't mean it was OK, or right, or noble!




Today, i believe the PNAC similerly believe they are doing the right thing,
that these things are in the best interests of the world.
I believe they see their plan as the next step in human social evolution.
And that it's all perfectly legitimate.
If people suffer or die, well, people always suffer and die for good causes.
Though because of their positions and self protections,
they never have to feel any of the pain themselves!
And this is why this PNAC plan is evil,
because if they did feel the pains of common people,
I guarantee their plan would be a whole lot different!


Unfortunately, as their good intentions fail,
they too will attempt to save it with bandaids!

Now I am confused , Hitler had good , idealistic intentions but he was evil? Could it be instead that the intentions were good for him and his inner circle only, because they were not so much idealistic about others (certainly not the ethnic Jews whom they loathed and plotted to exterminate) , but more narcissistic about taking it all for themselves, and the German peoples were just fodder to be coddled and schmoozed and fattened at first, and then to be used as pawns at the whims of the Nazi regime's true goals... power and money? Don't forget that FASCISM is really a form of CORPORATISM, the true goal is money and any means to attain it, NOT democracy and freedom for others! Invading Poland , and one European nation after another was "good intentions"? Bush is "freeing the Iraqi people"???

"Good intentions" implies not intending to hurt others in the first place and then it just happens, such as a terrible accident that happens to children on a field trip with a loving teacher. In my example of the teacher, she knows classroom activity is safer, but if she takes them out in the world on a field trip , even with chaperones, life can happen, a tree branch can fall on a child's head and make them paraplegic for life. She does everything safe possible for the field trip, but she wants to teach the kids to explore and give them new vistas and horizons to enjoy in life. Did the teacher INTEND for such a terrible thing to happen , for a branch to fall on her student and cause paraplegia for life? NO, not in a million years! In fact, she was with them, she did not send a substitute to do her job. But it happened on her watch, so she feels guilty in spite of her good intentions. Her good intentions were to get them to enjoy life, not stay trapped in a classroom setting day after day. Her purpose was to HELP THEM, not use them.

Now , let's take this Hitler thing and his manifesto, totally pre-planned. And PNAC and their posting of their Rebuilding America's Defenses manifesto on the internet of all places, TOTALLY PRE-PLANNED! If someone such as myself with absolutely no Pentagon experience can see the obvious breach in national security and the un-mitigated provocation of our enemies with such a brazen display of arrogant & malicious incitement with a THREATENING WAR PLOT ON THE 'NET, then why couldn't Donald Rumsfeld? Wolfowitz had written a precursor to PNAC 's RAD document during the Bush Sr Administration known as the "Wolfowitz Doctrine", and there was a tremendous amount of negative fallout about it from the European press at the time. They called it as they saw it! And "the crazies" knew that Europe despised the "Wolfowitz Doctrine" years before PNAC generated the "non-profit" yet more hardline doc of "Rebuilding America's Defenses". They mentioned "a new Pearl Harbor" in the R. A. D. manifesto... boy , I could practically read in between the lines that the PNAC was salivating for their "new Pearl Harbor"!

Their motive > get that military contractor money!!! Follow the money> the PNAC is funded by the Olin, Bradley, and Scaife Foundations, this is clear. Who funds these three foundations? Look at the authors of the PNAC Rebuilding America's Defenses manifesto> it's a Who's Who of military contractors. The primary author , Tom Donnelly , works for Lockheed Martin! This is nothing new under the sun> Ike warned us decades ago to watch out for these malevolent military industrialist crazies! They are not good fools, they are evil crazies Their motive is self-gratification through money, power, and their version of glory and prestige> FOR THEMSELVES> remember, Bush sees himself as a "Wartime President"!

Maybe it is the Mom in me , because it all appears so simple to me > PNAC (as the Nazis & Nero were) are simply a pack of mean selfish bullies!

No!


I didn't say Hitler had good, idealistic intentions.
I said, HE THOUGHT they were good, idealistic intentions.


He didn't get into politics just so he could have the best parking spot!
He didn't do it to get rich. He didn't do it to get the ladies.

He did it because he was an idealist, who was also rather screwed in the head!


R Reagan was also an idealist, and we all know he was screwed in the head.
(conservatives don't generally agree with me on this)



What good is power, if you have no one to be powerful for?
What good is being wealthy, if you have nothing to spend it on?

Being an idealist though, that's an inside job!

Hitler was an idealist for whom & for what? I would have appreciated it if he simply wanted a good parking spot & a good salary and he simply wanted to attract the ladies... this would have been earned payment for his JOB.

But who sets out to manipulate an entire society(destroying Jews and using Germans as pawns) and OTHER societies (invading & killing Polish , etc. etc. etc. ) for IDEALISM though? Is that the correct use of the term IDEALISM? It all sounds so NARCISSISTIC to me! Like TED BUNDY! I don't think Ted Bundy was a serial killer to get a good parking spot, or to get rich , and certainly NOT to attract the ladies, but I DO believe Ted Bundy was a total NARCISSIST!

"If anyone reproaches me and asks why I did not resort to the regular courts of justice, then all I can say is this: In this hour I was responsible for the fate of the German people, and thereby I became supreme judge of the German people"
- Adolf Hitler



Edit to add...

Note the quote say he was responsible FOR the German people,
Not TOO the German people.


He felt responsible for them,
so he made himself in charge,
because only HE knew what was best!

Note the quote say he was responsible FOR the German people,
Not TOO the German people.
He felt responsible for them,
so he made himself in charge,
because only HE knew what was best!
[/quote]

Bush assumes the same attitude addressing the ports issue.


"The more people learn about the transaction that has been scrutinized and approved by my government, the more they'll be comforted that our ports will be secure" (Associated Press, Ted Bridis, 02/23/06).

Not THE government, but MY government.

Check this out. At least one founder of PNAC has seen the error of his ways.

Link: Neocon architect says: 'Pull it down'

NEOCONSERVATISM has failed the United States and needs to be replaced by a more realistic foreign policy agenda, according to one of its prime architects.

Francis Fukuyama, who wrote the best-selling book The End of History and was a member of the neoconservative project, now says that, both as a political symbol and a body of thought, it has "evolved into something I can no longer support". He says it should be discarded on to history's pile of discredited ideologies.

But we all know Bush's attitude is a lie, that he is using the "benevolent thing" to cover up the fact that the UAE is a lucrative "deal" with Bushco, and that it has NOTHING to do with protecting us, it's the business relationship, the corporate power structure , the MONEY! Just as the Bin Ladens are a lucrative relationship with Bush Sr., they do not give a damn about us ... their "caring" is all a facade! Do you think they would pull it off if they did NOT pretend to care, if they behaved the way they really feel , like Bar when she slips up!? It is all a Straussian facade...control the masses , then you control the power and the money.

They are NeoCONS, not NeoCANS - it's not what they can do to help anything , it's that they will con us out of anything to help themselves !

What a welcome revelation! I wonder if he was totally "in the loop" , or simply sucked it from the periphery. He was not one of the core of "crazies" , so I wonder how much he knew of them and the Kristols before he bought into it? I have seen William Buckley sign a thing or two also, but he disavows them now too, which I saw on a PBS show once (can't recall name of program). It is encouraging to know someone can admit their adoption of ideas was wrong when they actually see, but how does one buy into mass murder for any reason from the get-go, unless they were gradually sucked in and conned by the ones at the top & "in the loop" ?

This reminds me very much how cults and pyramid scams recruit and operate.

No, it isn't a huge rant and barely comprehensible! It's a good rant and very comprehensible!
I love your wisdom and outrage - and what's wrong with wisdom and outrage?
You say that you have a lot of experience with non-profits. But we're butting heads with those who value profit over even personal dignity. It's not all that bad as long as it works, but when it fails they all are exposed as corporate whores.
Do we have ten more years to clean out the stables? I think not! Where is Hercules when we need him?

No we don't have 10 years,
but if that's what it takes, so be it!

Lefty, you have hit upon one of my pet peeves this past year since I have been researching too> the 501c3 NON-profit organization, or as sky says > "bake sales".

There is definitely an underground culture that is abusing the 501c3 and other Non-profit laws for their feudal/monarchial dreams and goals, sort of "fiefdoms".

Speaking of the devil , I interrupt this thought to go watch John McCain bullshit America on This Week with George Stephanopolous as to why the UAE/Bushco port "deal" is so great (Yes, I have no doubt it is VERY lucrative! )

In the BushCo fallout, it looks like McCain is absorbing most of Bush's underlings.