There was a time you didn't know> how did you find out the first time?!

I knew who the PNAC was long before I knew what the PNAC was.

POAC put 2 and 2 together for me.

I've only had a computer for about a year and a half and as unbelievable as this might sound to some of you, many people my age in small town Ohio neither own nor want one. I believe this is part of the reason the progressive message isn't getting out, to them msm is still the "news". Hell, I used to drive 20 miles to buy a Mother Jones magazine. Anyhow, when I inherited my girlfriend's daughter's old computer (I got my own shortly after) I visited mostly work related forums and somehow got a link to POAC eventually and of course from here I learned about PNAC. I'm becoming more computer literate as I have the time and visit other progressive sites as reference points, but to my mind POAC is far and away the best and the only one I've "joined". Kind of a long answer I guess but my point is why doesn't EVERY AMERICAN know about PNAC?

I was looking up some info about fascism and oddly enough found this site. As thoes who used to be around when I first posted, I was Neo-Con at the time and supported PNAC.

Do you have any of those old posts MM? I'd love to see 'em.

I don't remember where I first heard about the PNAC. I think it was on a documentary, but I cannot recall which one.

Harper's.

Harpers Bizarre, or Harpers Ferry?

Harper's Magazine. And that's Harper's Fairy, not ferry. And he doesn't know squat about pnac.

Wow, MM, that is "Verrrrrry Interesting..." (If you are too young to remember that line from Laugh-In , read Wikipedia )> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arte_Johnson


So, now you got me curiouser > you were researching fascism because you liked PNAC at first?


But when did you FIRST hear about PNAC then (not here, I presume?)

Tell me when I'm getting too nosy

I too was googling fascism and came across POAC's 14 points thereof. As to the PNAC, I first heard of the Center for National Policy. I had been coming to the conclusion, the feeling that there was a little man behind the curtain (Oz) coordinating everything. Any gaps in this story remain fuzzy in my recollection.

I was googling "liberal in the south" and actually came across one of your posts here Pinget. And I started reading and reading and reading. I've always been liberal and a non-go-with-the-flow-er, but it was here, I think maybe Sky and Zooks were talking about it and I asked them how do I find out more.

It's funny, when I was growing up, my mom always used to talk about the "one world order" (as described in the bible), so since then, whenever I even heard of credible links to PNAC, i wrote it off as some freaky religious sign of the (NOT) impending apocalyps. Now I know better.

Glad I was of help, Lefty! Thanks to Google, you never know how wide your influence might be.

I had heard the term neo-con before, but didn't really understand what it meant until I read Blinded by the Right by David Brock. When I discovered the nature of the beast, I was horrified. I went online to discover more about this national pathogen and uncovered the PNAC conspiracy in the course of my research.

That is really something that your post was lefty's first introduction that eventually led to the whole truth...

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell"

A Michael Moore book... I think it is Stupid White Men.

Which begs the question, why didn't he put PNAC in his movie?

Nice to meet you Yelome74!
Yank

Yes. I was more an Imperialist then a Neo-Con, to be honest I saw the Neo-Con as a weak dogma and only grouped with them, because they were doing something when everyone else was doing nothing (or so I thought). I heard about PNAC as a group to support from other Neo-Cons, the very first time I think was during a talked about the Heritage Foundation and other groups like them.


No, you are not being nosy at all. I have often wondered why "newer" members have never asked why I left the movement and my imperial ways. If you ever want to know details, just le me know.


In a few months it will be a year since I have been a member here and I did not save any of the posts, maybe TJ did, but I doubt it. At the time, the only guy here I kinda agreed with was the Nader avatar person and his talk about free elections, that got me to stay, plus I like it here, because most of the time we keep it civil and do not degrade into slander and name calling.

No matter what any of us believe or feel, at the end we are all brethern and we should embrace each other as such.

I learned about PNAC from other members of the Radio Left message board. From there I went to the website and was totally sickened with the fact that these documents had existed for six years before I had a chance to look them over.
I don't think any American should be functioning politically in this society without reading the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the documents that comprise PNAC.
The gap between what our nation started out to be and what it has become should become abundantly evident upon the attempt to compare these documents. The irony is just flooring.

I read your post to my Dad tonite... I was the one who told him the first time he heard it and he was the first one I told in person. I said your post is exactly how I feel. He said that is exactly how he feels too, if he could put his feelings down in words like that. Apparently your articulation has struck a universal cord... you may want to post your above paragraphs at other forums around the 'net as well

Um.....going to leave us in the dark about the contents of this supposed post to ones dad?

I read fons_castaliae's post to my Dad tonite ... it reminded me how we both felt when we read the PNAC docs. I told my Dad about PNAC the first time...I guess you want to know how I found out now?!

I needed a lightening bolt until I "got it". Someone suggested last year on
http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/ that I read "Worse than Watergate" by John W. Dean. He mentioned Project for a New American Century , but I didn't grasp the meaning at that time. Then around the time that John Bolton was up for nomination by Bush for the UN seat, my brain just went into over-drive to research this man. There was something that made me say "No way... this is not normal. No normal president would choose this man for dog-catcher, let alone the UN seat". So I stayed up till about 3 or 4 in the morning last year around June or July surfing the net, and one thing led to another and somehow then all of a sudden in the wee hours of the morn I found this article from the Scottish Sunday Herald dated September 15, 2002 by Neil McKay:

http://www.sundayherald.com/27735

Reading it changed me forever... it mentioned the Project for a New American Century that John W Dean had
noted in his book, but this Neil McKay article added another dimension that I had not realized earlier> the blueprint for global domination. There I sat stunned .... and then I surfed more and more about it until I went to bed.

So I have not voted yet in this poll because I do not know if my first encounter with PNAC should be the book or the newspaper article when I first "got it".

IMO, I see here in Lefty PROOF that what JT does with the POAC and what we do with the White Rose Forum
that we in fact do make a difference!

Who knows how far Lefty's discovery will ripple?


How many have there been who didn't sign up?

Hmmmm. Before the war, when I would use the term neocon, arguing with a right-winger, he/she would inevitably claim ignorance of the term. When I would explain the history of the neo-conservative movement, and furnish documentation of PNAC, the right-winger would always steadfastly deny the existance of such, and invariably dismiss me as a conspiracy theorist. Also, the mainstream news media at that time studiously avoided the taboo term "neocon".

Now, it seems the cat is somewhat out of the bag, in that the MSM is at least willing to utter the previously forbidden term, and right-wingers do not seem to claim total ignorance of the existance of neocons. I believe this owning up is due to the Iraq War. That made it impossible to hide the movement behind the curtain any longer.

I have a question for you MM, since you were on the inside. You seem to indicate that the disavowal of any knowledge about the neocons by right-wingers was a ruse, as I strongly suspected (either that or the right-wing rank and file are even stupider than I could imagine). Which was it?

Let me just ask you this...If you planed to create, not a one world government like many like to think, but a one world Empire with an Emperor, would you talk about it to your enemies?

The term Neo-Con was disliked because it reminded people of Neo-Pagans and that is the only reason I ever heard. Since witch-craft is no longer the "devil in the eye", they dont really care if you say it now or not. You hve to remeber to the Neo-Cons appearence is a very valuable assest and go to great lengths to hide who they are. It has been said that discretion is the better part of Valor.

I dont think it was ever keep secret on purpose, just you thought of them as crazy and never listened to their words. If you go back and reread what they said before, you would see they have felt this way since about 400AD.

Maybe he didn't want to be laughed at for being a conspiracy theorist or whatever...
And maybe also because he already had a lot to tell in the movie and didn't want to go too far from the main point...

Should we do another poll about it ?

Thank you. That answers my question. I suspected the right-wingers were just playing ignorant. But they were so good at acting dumb, I couldn't be sure whether or not it was a ruse.

Good idea > look for it!

I discovered the PNAC through the POAC!! ....also searching the web for fascism, if memory serves.

Hi inspired! Welcome to the forum.


I honestly have no idea about when I discovered the PNAC. None at all.

how did I hear about PNAC? some fool at a blog site back in Aug '05 kept saying

'out the PNAC' at the end of what they posted

I must be part cat, eventually I checked it out.

Not just that but the more I dug around, it seemed roads kept coming back to the PNAC people founders, supporters and political friendsters

they try to launder and triangulate thier dirty work, but it is far reaching and is a political machine that leaves few stones unturned and is a strange group of bedfellows that seems to go against

this Old American Century, or what America was founded on

and that, aside from history that portrays a weak Native Nation and the decimation and lying to them and injustices still being done to them this day, is what I would hope to get back to

It is about getting along with your fellow humankind

when people tell you to STOP IT or shut up, or tell you what to say, think, and then tell you it's because you must be loyal to nation, group or creed you know something is wrong

freedom is something we all want, it's becoming more obvious the charade of freedom we are seeing in the US, I wonder if it ever existed thanks to our slanted history (written by winners) and it's really been a nice hollywood type story told to the masses for nationalistic and 'heritage' reasons, with the remnants of those that stood in our way on reservations selling themself out with casino money and becoming ravaged with the same vices keeping most other humans down while the others become puppet masters

what the world American means and what it used to mean may be 2 different topics. Lately it's come to symbolize the very 'enemies' we used to oppose and we see now while in US we hear how we lead the free world, but at the 'business end' of our cannon filled with razors and bodyparts the rest of the world knows a different side to this 'freedom on the march'

how long has the US held onto a 'big stick policy'

is the US simply another puppet nation who is borrowing heavily from another group somewhere else? I see Japan and China lending money (Britain too) and it's hurting this country. What future are they borrowing against? It doesn't make sense

either the lies are sloppier or we are becoming more informed and ejamukaytid

'for diplomacy to be effective, lies must be credible'

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/fuzzymath.php

and dang the consequences (and there has been so much since this)

Ditto here. I had already found PNAC but didn't connect the dots for POAC until I googled the 14 points and then it was like the levees broke on my computer screen

now an addict can't seem to stop learning!