This is what it looks like when you stand up to a schoolyard bully.
It's also what it looks like when a soldier stands up to Donald Rumsfeld...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/...wait/index.html
Full Version: Stand Up. Dissent Is Patriotic!
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This is what it looks like when you stand up to a schoolyard bully.
It's also what it looks like when a soldier stands up to Donald Rumsfeld...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/...wait/index.html
| QUOTE |
| Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's rude reality check on Wednesday -- broadcast worldwide during a town-hall-style Q&A session with surprisingly blunt Army reservists in Kuwait -- generated headlines in part because it's so rare for Army grunts to challenge the Pentagon leadership in public. But the critical give-and-take also made waves and jolted the secretary because Rumsfeld is simply not accustomed to facing this type of tough questioning, certainly not from the deferential press corps that covers him and the Pentagon on a daily basis. Instead, many reporters in the clubby world of the capital continue to hold Rumsfeld in unusually high regard, considering he's the point man for the deeply troubling U.S. strategy in Iraq. On Wednesday, though, soldiers and reporters switched roles. Suddenly it was the troops, usually called upon during public forums to loft softball questions to high-ranking administration officials, who were raising uncomfortable lines of inquiry. After suffering through nearly two years of unforeseen and chaotic violence in Iraq, seeing nearly 1,300 of their fellow soldiers killed, and watching their tours of duty being extended again and again by the Pentagon, rank-and-file members of the U.S. military took it upon themselves to turn up the heat on the war planners and seek some semblance of accountability. That used to be the job of journalists. "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles, and why don't we have those resources readily available to us?" was the blunt question that Army Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th Regimental Combat Team put to Rumsfeld, who was visiting soldiers at Camp Buehring, Kuwait, on the eve of their deployment into Iraq. After asking Wilson to repeat his question, which garnered cheers among the 2,300 troops assembled, a somewhat startled Rumsfeld replied, "As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." You could almost hear the implied "young man" that Rumsfeld would have loved to tack on to his condescending reply.  But Rumsfeld's headmaster-style pushback, so effective in dealing with timid reporters inside Pentagon briefing rooms, did not stem the flow of tough questions, as troops peppered him about the Pentagon's "stop loss" program, which forces volunteer troops to serve longer than expected. "Settle down, settle down," Rumsfeld said at one point, trying to regain control. "I'm an old man and it's early in the morning. I'm gathering my thoughts here."  The revelation Thursday that an industrious Chattanooga Times Free Press reporter embedded with Wilson's unit reportedly talked with the soldier beforehand about posing his pointed question to Rumsfeld simply highlights how complacent the Beltway press has been on the urgent issue of armor shortage. Why haven't reporters worked up the nerve to ask these questions themselves before now? Meanwhile, the reporter's handiwork regarding the armor query doesn't explain away the other tough questions Rumsfeld had to fend off from the troops on Wednesday. Rumsfeld's unsteady performance in Kuwait was reminiscent of President Bush's first debate with Sen. John Kerry. Bush was so accustomed to being surrounded by Washington yes men -- and that includes the press corps--that he appeared jolted when Kerry forcefully challenged him on an array of assumptions about the war in Iraq. Without the press filters on Wednesday, Americans saw a different Rumsfeld, and certainly a less sure-footed one. "He seemed like he was stuttering and stumbling -- like he was caught off guard," Regina Wilson told the Associated Press. She's the former wife of the Iraq-bound soldier who asked about the missing armor. "Rumsfeld's answer seemed like he was sidestepping around the question." (Wilson noted her ex-husband had "dissed" Rumsfeld.) Following the verbal jostling in Kuwait, Rumsfeld insisted that the exchange with the troops had been healthy. But privately he must have longed for the accommodating style of the inquisitors back in Washington, who at a recent press briefing were far more interested in bureaucratic, inside-baseball-type matters -- like whether Rumsfeld had lobbied against intelligence reform legislation and whether he would remain for the duration of Bush's second term. Of course Rumsfeld has been handled with kid gloves almost since the attacks of 9/11. Dubbed a D.C. media "rock star," and praised for his forceful press briefings, where Rumsfeld made it clear he was not taking any guff from reporters, the Pentagon chief reached nearly untouchable status in the press. "Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is still a media darling, captivating the press with straight talk, reason and some canny American know-how," wrote the Washington Times in April 2003. MSNBC President Erik Sorenson fawningly told the paper, "Our viewers tell me that beyond all else, the secretary is a clear speaker and a strong storyteller, which audiences of all stripes find thoroughly engaging." Rumsfeld's media massage got even more soothing on the eve of his trip to Kuwait, with Bill O'Reilly giving him the usual Fox News kid-glove treatment (O'Reilly: "Can't you institute a draft for the ACLU, just them?"). Some local radio talk show hosts who had also been granted interviews responded even more slavishly. Marc Bernier of WNDB-AM in Daytona Beach, anxious to absolve Rumsfeld of any responsibility in the Abu Ghraib prisoner torture scandal, asked, "Am I correct that any of the things that went wrong were not in any of the memos that you ever sent?" (Rumsfeld: "You're quite right.") Meanwhile, Steve Gill at WWTN-FM in Nashville said gushingly, "Secretary Don Rumsfeld, you're one of my heroes." Apparently that kind of hero worship does not extend to the Persian Gulf. With Wednesday's showdown in Kuwait, some soldiers signaled they're done playing the role of dutiful wartime props for the Bush administration. When will more members of the Washington press corps do the same? |
Don't look for THAT to happen anytime soon. Remember, this is the fascist White House under Bush we're talking about...
On the other hand, those soldiers deserve a snappy salute for not taking any more shit from those giving them their orders. May those dominoes keep falling!
'Bina.
hero
The sunzabitches are trying to cast aspersions on it anyway...ignoring the FACTS that the troops don't have adequate armor.
Look out! Those soldiers were FORCED to ask those nasty questions.
A reporter MADE them do it. It's all a fake.
They have perfectly good armor and they're just whining and trying to get on teevee.
Ooooooh, a "reporter" was "involved" in it. That settles it.
And golly, Rummy might have felt "manipulated"...awwww. Poor Rummy.
U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld addresses U.S. military personnel in Kuwait before their scheduled departure for Iraqi combat-zones, December 8, 2004. An American soldier complained to Rumsfeld that troops were being forced to dig up scrap metal to protect their vehicles in Iraq (news - web sites) because of a shortage of armored transport. (Larry Downing/Reuters)
Look out! Those soldiers were FORCED to ask those nasty questions.
A reporter MADE them do it. It's all a fake.
They have perfectly good armor and they're just whining and trying to get on teevee.
Ooooooh, a "reporter" was "involved" in it. That settles it.
And golly, Rummy might have felt "manipulated"...awwww. Poor Rummy.
U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld addresses U.S. military personnel in Kuwait before their scheduled departure for Iraqi combat-zones, December 8, 2004. An American soldier complained to Rumsfeld that troops were being forced to dig up scrap metal to protect their vehicles in Iraq (news - web sites) because of a shortage of armored transport. (Larry Downing/Reuters)
| QUOTE |
| http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2004/12/09/national1806EST0744.DTL Tennessee reporter involved in soldier's question to Rumsfeld BILL POOVEY, Associated Press Writer Thursday, December 9, 2004 (12-09) 16:23 PST CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (AP) -- A National Guardsman who asked Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld a bold question about armor on war vehicles went to the microphone after consulting with a Tennessee reporter. Chattanooga Times Free Press reporter Edward Lee Pitts, who is embedded with the 278th Regimental Combat Team, wrote about the incident in an e-mail to co-workers sent Wednesday. Pitts said he worked with guardsmen after being told reporters would not be allowed to ask Rumsfeld any questions. "I was told yesterday that only soldiers could ask questions so I brought two of them along with me as my escorts," he wrote. "Before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have." Pitts also said he arranged for the questioners to get recognized. "While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd," Pitts wrote in an e-mail that was posted on several Web sites Thursday. Spc. Thomas "Jerry" Wilson, 31, of Nashville, asked Rumsfeld why, after almost two years of war, soldiers were searching dumps for metal to weld on vehicles destined for hostile territory. "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles?" Wilson said. The question appeared to surprise Rumsfeld and prompted cheers among the soldiers listening to him in a hangar. Tom Griscom, the Chattanooga newspaper's publisher and executive editor, commended the reporter's work Thursday. He said the question was one that members of the unit and their families wanted answered, based on the reporter's previous coverage of training stints in Mississippi and California. "I think that Lee used what was available to him to get an answer to a story that we have covered and that has been important," said Griscom, who served as White House communications director under President Reagan. Kelly McBride, a member of the ethics faculty at the Poynter Institute, said she did not fault the reporter for getting help with asking the question, but described the failure to include that information with his story as "dishonest with his readers." "I think he should have been more transparent with his readers," she said. "I suspect some people would see it as manipulative," McBride said. "I suspect Rumsfeld felt manipulated." Pentagon spokesman Larry Di Rita said Rumsfeld gives reporters ample time to ask questions and that his appearance in Kuwait was for the soldiers. "Town Hall meetings are intended for soldiers to have dialogue with the secretary of defense," Di Rita said. "It would be unfortunate to discover that anyone might have interfered with that opportunity, whatever the intention." Griscom said Thursday he did not have a chance to ask Pitts about exactly how he collaborated with Wilson before the question was posed to Rumsfeld. In hindsight, Griscom said, the newspaper should have informed readers in a note with the story published Thursday. He said there would be a note to readers in Friday editions. The reporter's e-mail also indicated Pitts was proud of his role in asking the question: "I just had one of my best days as a journalist today," he wrote. He said it "felt good" that the question and answer received so much attention from other media. "I believe lives are at stake with so many soldiers going across the border riding with scrap metal as protection," Pitts wrote. "It may be too late for the unit I am with, but hopefully not for those who come after." The Chattanooga newspaper and the Tennessee National Guard said Thursday that they could not reach Wilson. |
Jeezus H. Cripes! When will the distortions of the FACTS ever stop!
Not until we've impeached these thugs. Not until then.
It doesn't matter if a reporter got the ball rolling. The point is, the other soldiers picked it up and ran with it. This guy was not the only one to grill Rummy good and hard! All those others seem to have acted off their own bat. How is the media gonna explain THEM away, particularly when the inevitable mutiny finally comes?
'Bina.
'Bina.
Could Rummy be um, lying? Feigning surprise?
Email from a friend in Virginia:
Occasionally our local new gives us facts the networks probably know but chose to ignore. Yesterday was one of those instances---our local news spilled some smelly beans. I emailed WAVY-tv last night for a transcript and got their reply today. Here is the script (exactly as emailed to me from WAVY News desk): [PLEASE SCROLL DOWN]
STRAIGHT AHEAD AT 5:30--DISGRUNTLED SOLDIERS COMPLAINED TO DONALD RUMSFELD
ABOUT LONG DEPLOYMENTS AND A LACK OF ARMORED VEHICLES AND OTHER EQUIPMENT.
MORE ON THAT NEXT ON WAVY NEWS 10 AT 5:30.
NOW TO OUR OTHER TOP STORY.. DO TROOPS IN IRAQ HAVE WHAT THEY NEED TO WIN THE FIGHT.. TONIGHT THEY SAY NO.. AND THEIR SAYING IT TO THEIR BOSS IN AVERY PUBLIC.. AND UNUSUAL DISPLAY. IT ALL HAPPENED WHEN DEFENSE SECRETARY DONALD RUMSFELD TRAVELED TO KUWAIT TO GIVE TROOPS GOING IN A PEP TALK.. IT TURNED INTO ANYTHING BUT.
WAVY NEWS 10'S MILITARY REPORTER PATTY CULHANE JOINS US WITH OUR TOP STORY.
IN THE MILITARY... IT JUST ISN'T NORMALLY DONE... CALLING OUT THEIR BOSSES IN PUBLIC.. WITH CAMERA'S ROLLING... IT GOT SO TESTY AT ONE POINT THAT RUMSFELD TOLD ONE SOLDIER TO SETTLE DOWN.
IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND THE SPACE BETWEEN THESE SOLDIERS AND THE SECRETARY
COULDN'T BE FARTHER APART... BUT IT SEEMED TO DISAPPEAR WITH THIS QUESTION
(S.O.T)
'why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap
metal and compromised ballistic glass to armor our vehicles and why don't we
have those resources readily available to us...
(nats - applause)
(s.o.t) Rumsfeld
'it's a matter of production and capability of doing it.. as you know..you
go to war with the army you have not the army you want.'
RUMSFELD SAYING THE ARMY JUST DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH ARMOR IN STOCK..
BUT WHEN WAVY NEWS TEN TRAVELED TO KUWAIT LAST MARCH WE SAW THIS... LINE AFTER LINE OF FULLY ARMORED HUMVEES AND TANKS BEING SENT BACK TO AMERICA WITH THE TROOPS THAT LAUNCHED THE WAR.. BEING REPLACED BY UNARMORED HUMVEE'S COVERED IN CANVAS.. AT THE TIME WE WERE TOLD WITH THE MISSION TURNING TO PEACEKEEPING.. SO MUCH ARMOR WOULDN'T BE NEEDED...
(S.O.T) FILE TAPE - 27:34
'first of all average non commissioned officer not saying what your saying.'
THEY SAID THAT TODAY.. WITH A QUESTION.. AND THE THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE THAT FOLLOWED.. RUMSFELD'S FINALLY TELLING THEM EVEN UNARMORED HUMVEES CAN BE BLOWN UP
(S.O.T) handlesman
'troops are 100 percent right.. ever since this war they've been misled on
just how long they would stay how difficult the insurgency would be.. what
equipment they would need to deal with it.'
A PENTAGON SPOKESMAN SAYS THE SOLDIERS WILL NOT BE PUNISHED FOR SPEAKING OUT. THE TOP GENERAL IN THE REGION SAYS HE HAD NO IDEA TROOPS WERE GOING THROUGH LANDFILL LOOKING FOR ARMOR.
Email from a friend in Virginia:
Occasionally our local new gives us facts the networks probably know but chose to ignore. Yesterday was one of those instances---our local news spilled some smelly beans. I emailed WAVY-tv last night for a transcript and got their reply today. Here is the script (exactly as emailed to me from WAVY News desk): [PLEASE SCROLL DOWN]
STRAIGHT AHEAD AT 5:30--DISGRUNTLED SOLDIERS COMPLAINED TO DONALD RUMSFELD
ABOUT LONG DEPLOYMENTS AND A LACK OF ARMORED VEHICLES AND OTHER EQUIPMENT.
MORE ON THAT NEXT ON WAVY NEWS 10 AT 5:30.
NOW TO OUR OTHER TOP STORY.. DO TROOPS IN IRAQ HAVE WHAT THEY NEED TO WIN THE FIGHT.. TONIGHT THEY SAY NO.. AND THEIR SAYING IT TO THEIR BOSS IN AVERY PUBLIC.. AND UNUSUAL DISPLAY. IT ALL HAPPENED WHEN DEFENSE SECRETARY DONALD RUMSFELD TRAVELED TO KUWAIT TO GIVE TROOPS GOING IN A PEP TALK.. IT TURNED INTO ANYTHING BUT.
WAVY NEWS 10'S MILITARY REPORTER PATTY CULHANE JOINS US WITH OUR TOP STORY.
IN THE MILITARY... IT JUST ISN'T NORMALLY DONE... CALLING OUT THEIR BOSSES IN PUBLIC.. WITH CAMERA'S ROLLING... IT GOT SO TESTY AT ONE POINT THAT RUMSFELD TOLD ONE SOLDIER TO SETTLE DOWN.
IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND THE SPACE BETWEEN THESE SOLDIERS AND THE SECRETARY
COULDN'T BE FARTHER APART... BUT IT SEEMED TO DISAPPEAR WITH THIS QUESTION
(S.O.T)
'why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap
metal and compromised ballistic glass to armor our vehicles and why don't we
have those resources readily available to us...
(nats - applause)
(s.o.t) Rumsfeld
'it's a matter of production and capability of doing it.. as you know..you
go to war with the army you have not the army you want.'
RUMSFELD SAYING THE ARMY JUST DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH ARMOR IN STOCK..
BUT WHEN WAVY NEWS TEN TRAVELED TO KUWAIT LAST MARCH WE SAW THIS... LINE AFTER LINE OF FULLY ARMORED HUMVEES AND TANKS BEING SENT BACK TO AMERICA WITH THE TROOPS THAT LAUNCHED THE WAR.. BEING REPLACED BY UNARMORED HUMVEE'S COVERED IN CANVAS.. AT THE TIME WE WERE TOLD WITH THE MISSION TURNING TO PEACEKEEPING.. SO MUCH ARMOR WOULDN'T BE NEEDED...
(S.O.T) FILE TAPE - 27:34
'first of all average non commissioned officer not saying what your saying.'
THEY SAID THAT TODAY.. WITH A QUESTION.. AND THE THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE THAT FOLLOWED.. RUMSFELD'S FINALLY TELLING THEM EVEN UNARMORED HUMVEES CAN BE BLOWN UP
(S.O.T) handlesman
'troops are 100 percent right.. ever since this war they've been misled on
just how long they would stay how difficult the insurgency would be.. what
equipment they would need to deal with it.'
A PENTAGON SPOKESMAN SAYS THE SOLDIERS WILL NOT BE PUNISHED FOR SPEAKING OUT. THE TOP GENERAL IN THE REGION SAYS HE HAD NO IDEA TROOPS WERE GOING THROUGH LANDFILL LOOKING FOR ARMOR.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back up the caravan here... 
Did I see what I think I just saw? The ARMORED hummers were SENT BACK? In MARCH???
Talk about your cocky idiots in charge. "Okay, we can pull those--the war's over!"
Either that, or talk about someone planning to invade Iran...and pulling those out of service for the very purpose of...
'Bina.
Did I see what I think I just saw? The ARMORED hummers were SENT BACK? In MARCH???
Talk about your cocky idiots in charge. "Okay, we can pull those--the war's over!"
Either that, or talk about someone planning to invade Iran...and pulling those out of service for the very purpose of...
'Bina.
This story is a good example of what i mean when i say i support the troops. I support the troops, not the guys at the top who are sending them into these missions willynilly.
IT's been slow, but i think the guys on the ground are starting something and i hope it snowballs and it's gonna roll rummy and bush down.
GO TROOPS
IT's been slow, but i think the guys on the ground are starting something and i hope it snowballs and it's gonna roll rummy and bush down.
GO TROOPS
The best way to support the troops is, as I've always said, to GET THEM THE HELL OUT OF THERE!!!
'Bina.
'Bina.
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