I didn't know where to post this, but I took a shot, hoping that this would be the appropriate place...

If the U.S. did not invade Iraq for oil, what then? And what about one of United States strongest allies?


Last Updated: Thursday, 3 July, 2003, 21:47 GMT 22:47 UK


Poland seeks Iraqi oil stake

Poland, which has sent troops to support the US-led forces in Iraq, has acknowledged its "ultimate objective" is to acquire supplies of Iraqi oil.

The Polish Foreign Minister, Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz, said his country had never disguised the fact that it sought direct access to the oilfields.

He was speaking as a group of Polish firms signed a deal with a subsidiary of US Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, Halliburton.

The US firm, Kellogg, Brown and Root, has already won million-dollar contracts to carry out reconstruction work in Iraq.

"We have never hidden our desire for Polish oil companies to finally have access to sources of commodities," Mr Cimoszewicz told the Polish PAP news agency.

Access to the oilfields "is our ultimate objective," he added.

Polish soldiers are to command one of the post-war administrative zones being set up to run Iraq.

Poland firmly supported the United States during the Iraq war, and sent a small number of troops during the combat.

About 250 Polish soldiers left for Kuwait on Wednesday to begin preparations for a multinational peacekeeping force in central Iraq.

Poland will take command of more than 9,000 troops from 15 nations - including 2,300 of its own - when the force is ready at the beginning of September.

The sector under Polish command will be sandwiched between the US and British sectors.

It is the first time Poland has led such a large multinational peacekeeping force.


Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3043330.stm

I'm sure nobody else here will agree with me (because I've ran some test polls here in the past) but I 100% believe that the invasion of Iraq was NOT about Oil (at least not directly as most people here seem to believe). It was about the neo-con dream of transforming the middle east into a Democracy. That is why I think all this talk of Oil hurts our cause more than helps it, and makes us look as if we are loonies who are out of touch with reality. I believe we would be much better off to recognize what the Iraq War is all about and deal with it on those terms.

When have neo-cons every dreamed of democracy in the middle east?

My two cents.

Oil is just a nice reward for the faithful.
The invasion was completely about country hopping in an attempt
to unify the world under the Neo-con banner.

If Iraq had been successful, Iraq would have been a spring board into Iran and Syria.
With the rest to follow depending on the level of success.

I would guess, first the middle east, then continue on into south and central asia,
with the ultimate war to end the neo-con world conquest being with China.

Iraq may still be a springboard to invading and "Democracy-forming" Syria and/or Iran. I have no doubt that the Pentagon has the plans already drawn up for both countries. As much as we may detest the methods of the insurgency in Iraq, they are the ONLY thing preventing this.

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Now you understand why the US hates the UN so badly. Both neo-conservatives and neo-liberals envision a single world government, the "new world order" we've all heard so much about. Corporate government. Where the wealthy live on the backs of the workers like parasites, and enforce corporate rule through the use of military, the manipulation of medicine and disease and the manipulation of the availability of food and water. Nations will be little more than corporate divisions, tasked with keeping the workers down and the flow of goods up. The UN may (or may not) envision a single world government, also. Organized along very different lines. Competing systems. One of them has to go. All that neo-conservative and neo-liberal talk about "healthy economies through a competitive market" is pure bullshit. What we are seeing now is the two competing approaches, neo-con and neo-lib, working together. Good cop, bad cop. Poland was mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Remember that Poland has been the greatest battleground and cemetery in the history of Europe, has been invaded and conquered by everyone marching in any direction, north, south, east or west. They have been betrayed by every ally they have ever had, and survived as a nation and a culture. Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon, Kruschev...Poland is a very pragmatic nation, and they know all about good and bad cops. They will go with whichever cops have the doughnuts. Doughnuts deep-fried in Iraqi oil will do nicely for now. And as for oil, it is currently the fuel of choice, both in industry and war. It will remain so until it runs out. That is a good enough reason to risk the downside of world conquest now. Good enough reason to hurry non-fossil-dependent technologies along, like space-based weaponry, as well. Tanks and trucks may well one day run on electricity or alternate fuels, and ships on nuclear power, but aircraft, well, aircraft fly on oil. Most modern conventional, and much nuclear, strategies and tactics require air logistics and direct air support. Peak oil was the "Go" signal, and the race is on to "pacify" and "democratize"the world before it runs out. I had a friend in Pennsylvania who served in the navy during the war in Viet Nam. On the way back home, in mid-Pacific, the ship he was on caught fire. Electrical and petroleum, with the possibility of munitions as well. They did not break out the lifeboats. The entire crew fought the fire until it was out and the ship secured. No choice. They had no place else to go. That is the point we are approaching.

Very good analogy Zooks.

We have no other place to go.
If we do not fix the problem here, there is no place we can run too.

I am entirely optomistic that the Mid Term elections will loudly signal a change in direction.
But at the same time I am also mindful of the consequences if it doesn't happen.


Things have not yet progressed to the point of being impossible to control,
but that time, something new to us all, is now on the horizon!



There has always been class struggle.
That's a human reality.
It's tribal.
We might feel we are not the base animals we used to be,
but under all the grandure of our art and creativeness,
and everything that is good about the human condition,
we are indeed those same animals that learned to walk upright.

If the country changes direction, as I believe it will,
it is possible to put political checks into place to limit the class wars.
It is possible to use the law in the effort to balance out the inequities.
It is possible to create an environment in which progressive thinking is considered "cool",
And close minded greed along with social advantage are considered, immoral!

Yes, it can be done. But not over night. Not in a single presidency, or even a lifetime.
What can be done immediately, is a switch in directions.
Shall we continue this path, and all the consequences this path holds for us?
Or shall we collectively change paths based entirely on the collective assumption
that what were doing now, simply isn't good enough?
And to continue into the furture changing paths because what we're doing still,
just isn't good enough?

If this is what happens in November, (if it hasn't already but Nov will be the measure of it)
then as a society we have decided to reach up.
We will have to recognise our baser instincts, and make the deliberate decision to regulate them.

We can do it.
The only question is, will we?

I think we will.


[center]All One Tribe

Only One Earth[/center]