I say yes. I think that this is an extreamly important question that many of our kind have not wanted to look at. Think about what will happen to the democratic party if they lose in 2006. What kind of situation will they be in if they continue to fail on the national level. I don't believe that they can live if they continue to lose congressional seats, even when the republican popularity is this low. If they don't win next year, then the democrats will splinter and the party will be dead, probably with in five years.

I don't think the party would die in 2006.
But 2008 certainly!


So, why would the party die?
Because the DLC, the fringe with so much of the MSM's ear undermined and fragmented the party.

In other words, if we can't unify our voice in the same way that the Rethugs have,
we might well kiss it all goodbye!

Creating an whole new party is not an over night event.
In the mean time, the neocon controlled RNC will continue to beat shit out of average Americans
while at the same time rewarding the filthy rich for no other reason than that they ARE filthy rich!


Reshaping the Democratic party and margenalizing crap like the DLC (Clinton, Leiberman, etc) would be a lot easier and quicker!

Eternal optimist here> yes, the Democrats can and WILL take back the seats in 2006 for sure. The polls show it already a year before November election!

Democrats can win in 2008 IF candidate is the People's Choice (and the people want and crave a Progressive like John Conyers, NOT Repub lite like Hillary & NOT closet Neoliberal like Lieberman). We gotta get someone Progressive enuf to beat John McCain (the Neocon's best kept closet secret in DC).

How could they die? You only have a 2 party system, so if the Dems go away, you'd only be able to vote red.

In a democracy you need at least 2 people / parties running.

The void would not remain unfilled.
The hope is, (and it;s only a hope) that something with the complainers values
would fill that void.

(But what if the PNAC were to decide who or what filled the void?)

It happened in the 1850's when the Whig's died, giving rise to the repubicans. I am sure that there was a temporary void, but there is no way that it would last for more than a few months. Despite the republican's best efforts, there is no way that this will ever be a one party system. If the dems do die, then there will be another party to take their place. A part of me hopes that the dems do start a new party, although doing it like that would not be worth it. Then again, when i hear about how the dems are fighting like hell in congress and hearing dean say what is on all of our minds, everyday, it gives me hope that it will not happen at all. There were three things that the dems needed after last year:

1. A spine
2. Unifying
3. A vision

We have 1 out of 3 so far. Give the Doctor another 11 months and he will get the rest done.


Oh and sky, don't worry about PNAC and the Neo-cons. They are dying on the table as we speak. I give them a few years, tops, before they compleatly out of the picture.


Fuck spell checkers.

Jack.


Those people who gave them their power, are still there.

Just as we liberals are still here even if the Democratic party folds.

I want a parliament. Lots of parties, a rainbow of opinion.

That's what the Iraqis are getting, you know.

I know. Maybe if we used the tatics they are using to get what they want.

Want to pay what they are paying for it? Sounds smartass, I know, but I am serious.

No, they will not die but continue to be the ineffectual party that they are now and have been for quite some time.

I don't expect anything good from the Democratic party. I think I see them pretty clearly. You "true believer" Democrats can go ahead and believe in your fairy tales that Democrats are gonna regain their throne and smite the evil Republicans from every corner of the land.

IF the DLC were to split off and form a 3rd party,
then I believe the DNC would excel and would run the show!
THis will never happen though because the DLC is in the pocket of the RNC,
and they're doing exactly what the RNC want's them to do!


Why is this such a difficult concept?

When you speak of the Republicans, you're talking of just ONE orginization.
Every other faction is a party of this one faction.
The Republicans ARE the RNC, and the RNC is made up of all the other riffraff.
And the RNC dictates what the party line is, commonly refered too as "talking points".

The Democrats though, because we ARE liberals, allowes for the spectrum of views!
Generally, the Democrats don't have any "talking points".
The Democrats are not a single unified body like the Republicans are with one single central leadership.!

The Democrats consist of the DNC, the DLC, the DCCC and several other smaller groups including factions of the Libertarians and the Greens and other independants!!
When you hear of the Democrats snuggling up with Republicans, almost always these are members of the DLC, NOT the DNC!

We all really need to understand that there is only one Republican. All Bad Republicans!
But the Democrats consist of both Good and Bad Democrats!

Come Nov 2006 and 2008, this will be exceptionally critical for Americans to understand!

If they vote for Hillary, they are NOT voting for a Progressive Liberal!
They will in fact be voting for a Republican in a blue suit!



Let me summerize.


In America today we already have a 3 party system!

Republicans (RNC), Progressive Democrats (DNC) and Conservative Democrats (DLC)!
We must make everyone understand this before the elections.
The Republicans are STILL the masters of wedge issues!

Canada has a parliament, but only 2 parties have ever ruled Canada since its creation in 1867.

But, we do have 4 different parties represented in Parliament.

Hillary?!?

OMFG! If the Democratic Party runs Hillary in 2008 then I shall forever give up on them. But I could see them doing it, if they thought it was in their best political interests to do so. And Hillary's support of Bush's Iraq War is probably a political strategy of hers to find enough acceptance among conservatives to win. Politics is what the Democratic party cares about more than anything else.

I get the point that you have been trying to make, Sky, and I agree that the Democratic Party in its current form in fragmented and divided, everyone pulling against each other. In the process they appear like weak, confused, and disorganized. Hell, no wonder the average American does not trust the Democratic party. They have brought this on themselves.

The sad thing is that I do not see them reforming themselves any time soon, certainly not by 2008. They may win back some seats because the Republicans are being exposed more and more for what they are (you can only hide that for so long), but if the Democrats win, it won't be because of anything they did to win. It will be because the Republicans have fucked up so bad.

My faith is not in the Democratic Party. My faith is individuals in both parties who choose to do the right thing, even if it is against their own political interests to do so. Thats what we so badly need in Washington: principal above politics. When will we see it? Maybe not in our life times.

READ MY CYBER LIPS


HILLARY IS NOT WITH THE DNC. HILLARY IS DLC!

I give up

I'm not a member of any organized political party,
I'm a Democrat!
Will Rogers

No, that’s just not going to happen. Your party will continue to be supported by people looking for an alternative to the policies of the current crass Republicans. As more people become disaffected by what’s going on now the number of such people will grow, and with it support for the Democrats. Estrangement with both parties and lack of programs supported by many people will lead a lot of folks to not vote again, but of the people who vote you’ll get your majority. Maybe not in 2006 but certainly by 2008. Bank on that.

Sky, does it really matter who is in the DNC and who is in the DLC? How many people know this or would even care if they did? DNC or DLC, they are the Democratic party.

I'm not going to let up on the Democrats. Until they change their evil ways, I will continue to say just what I think of them.

Just because I am against Bush and most Republicans does NOT mean I am a supporter of the Democratic Party!

Well, then i guess that you are just shit out of luck. Why do you have to come on here be so gloomy all the time? Acting down all the time isn't really going to help anything. Yes, we get it, the democrats are not perfect. But they are saints compared to the republicans. I know some people say that there is no difference. Like hell there isn't. If you can't see the difference, then you are blind.

If all liberals acted like that, then the republicans would be 100% in control.


<----This is you

<-----Start acting like this

How many people know about the PNAC?
Does it really matter?


Yes it matters!
If yer gonna have an enemy, you best understand who it is!


Tell you what AFW, when the time come I'll be sure to tell you I told you so!
And enjoy it!

Looks like I ruffled a few feathers here. I can handle that. I am a progressive, not a Democrat, so I do not have any allegience to the Democratic Party. But nowhere did I equate the Democratic party with the Republican Party. When I said the Democrats had "evil ways", I was talking about their putting politics above principal, which I see that they do most of the time. This is very different from the "evil ways" of many Republicans, which is outright corruption and arrogance. They are two different kinds of evil, but both evil in my opinion.