OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 9:45 am

I'm putting this in the "latest news" section for a day or so before it moves to "board issues" to make sure everyone sees it.

We had to ban someone today. Here's why:

QUOTE

All of you are nothing but pussies who like to bitch and whine, and when it comes to taking real action that makes a difference you shy away from it as if it's the plague. You are useless "keyboard warriors" and nothing more.

Now, I can live with this. Yes, it qualifies as a personal attack. Yes, it's just another disruptive post in a long history of unconstuctive posts. But I could let that slide.

QUOTE

Yeah, I'm suggesting armed revolt while y'all suggest continuing to appeal to them to stop, who exactly is the bitch in this equation again? I ain't believin' a fellow scotsman doesn't understand armed revolt especially with all of the rich history of rebellion against the British.

Here we have it. Advocating any violence or criminal acts on our forum will result in an instant ban. This is all the feds need to shut us down and pay me a visit. We've already had our assets seized once, I'd like to prevent that from happening again.

Now, I'd like to address this a little further. Mainly because it seriously pisses me off and I'd feel much better if I could pay this little prick a visit in person. This little ass obviously shared some animosity towards us a group, as he couldn't go one day without verbally attacking someone here. Furthermore, he had linked to some anti-POAC and anti-Whiterose bullshit on his blog. Encouraging his readers (if he really had any) to visit that link to learn about us. My personal feeling was that he wanted us to get shut down.

Now for anyone else who sees us as pussy keyboard warriors and thinks armed revolt is the wisest choice: Put up or shut up. Grab yourself a shotgun and go out in the public square, Jump up on a car and start shouting about how the revolution is now and the armed revolt starts with you. Let us know how well that works for you. Big talk like that and no action makes you nothing but a pussy keyboard warrior who's big on bluster and little else.

For a mass movement to happen, you have to have a majority of the population reaching an informed concensus. That's the mission of the POAC. To inform the populace so that they will come to an informed collective understanding. To advocate violence or criminal acts only hurts our cause.

z7q2

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:03 am

Bravo!

Don't sell being a keyboard warrior short, though. Tom Paine made a difference without bashing heads.

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:10 am

QUOTE(z7q2 @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:03 am)

Bravo!

Don't sell being a keyboard warrior short, though. Tom Paine made a difference without bashing heads.
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Exactly.

Well said.

Legato_Bluesummers

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:24 am

You know what, POAC? I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this guy WAS a fed, or just a Freeper from the Fighting 101st Keyboard division trying to cause problems for P.O.A.C.org. In fact, judging from the fact that he had anti-POAC links on his site, I would say that it's more likely than not.

Bravo for the ban. As Gandhi and MLK Jr also realized, non-violence is the best way to wage a sustained and long term campaign for political change & reform, as even the slightest hint of violence against the government results in carte blanche for them to wage a real COINTELPRO program against dissent. Once they raise their hand against a peaceful, non-violent organization, it becomes clearly obvious who's in the wrong (for those who don't already see it). There in lies the brilliance of non-violent protest and civil disobedience.

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:37 am

I don't know if he's an operative. I think he's just a brash, dumb kid. And you are spot on about the peaceful civil disobedience. Absolutely right on.

shoeless

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:39 am

QUOTE(Legato_Bluesummers @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:24 am)

Once they raise their hand against a peaceful, non-violent organization, it becomes clearly obvious who's in the wrong (for those who don't already see it). There in lies the brilliance of non-violent protest and civil disobedience.
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I think Cindy Sheehan has proven that concept.

Catherine

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:45 am

Good call, POAC...

Thomas Jefferson helped fight the American Revolution with his pen, and Cindy Sheehan and her supporters are out there in that Texas heat and dust, fighting in their peaceful, non-violent way to make things better for all of us, including the military. Compare Sheehan with that redneck who took his truck and destroyed a war memorial. Thank you very much, but I prefer Cindy's Way.

I want answers from Bushco, I want them all held accountable for their crimes, and I want them all to be run out of office, but I want it all done legally and non-violently. Leave the violence and illegalities to rightwing Bush supporters.

Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. As my old granny used to say, what goes around, comes around.

As for the poster who was banned, I'd suggest he enlist in one of the military branches and he'll get all the violence he can possibly ever, ever want.

Catherine

theoddz

Friday, 19 August 2005, 10:49 am

Keyboard Warriors??

eh ehehe......if my knowlege of history (of which I am a great buff) serves me right, most revolutions have had their roots in intellectualism. It's been with the students in the universities, then to the common masses, but intellectuals, indeed.

I find this board to be full of thoughtful and progressive intellectualism. I don't always post here, because, in large part, I don't have the time to keep up with my reading all the time. I work crazy shifts and yes, I work for the US gov't (the VA), so I don't like to post from a gov't computer. It's bad policy and, I think, can be against the Hatch Act?? And if it isn't, I know it's a misuse of gov't resources, so I just read the posts. I've also found that most knowlege is gained by *listening* to others, and not always being the "talker"/typer, etc.

I enjoy reading the posts here. Sometimes, you guys (and ladies) post some really good articles from some of the other sites you visit, which are outside of the mainstream US media. The REAL news doesn't always get reported from ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN and that horrid "Faux" News...... I know this from having been in the broadcast industry for a few years, in my own past. The members here get their news from other sources and I find that totally refreshing!! I really really do enjoy reading the posts on this board!!!!!

POAC, you have a wonderful board here with some really great folks!! It's so refreshing to be able to come here and see some good progressive discussions that don't have the various "flames" attached. I guess what I'm saying is that it's a less environment where progressives can exchange ideas and share news stories. This is so important, especially now, when our political system has been so damaged and our nation so divided.

I hate to see anyone banned, but I have to give 2 thumbs up on your decision, POAC, to ban him/her. I'm all in favor of *change*, but not of anarchy, as that poster was suggesting. The brain is so much more powerful than the gun, anyway.

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:32 am

For those who are unfamiliar with our forum guidlines, please read them.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/forum_guidelines.htm

excerpt:

QUOTE

The Golden Rules

1. There will be no racial, ethnic, gender based insults or any other personal discriminations.

2. There will be no posts meant to offend or hurt any other member, in a manner which is offensive or inflammatory.

3. Spamming is not permitted; please keep all your posts as constructive as possible.

6. Pornography, warez, or any other illegal transactions may NOT be linked in any shape or form.

7. Users may not argue a moderators decision publicly. Any and all complaints directed at a moderator must first address the moderator in question via PM. If the problem can not be resolved, then the moderator and user must send their positions to the forum owner (POAC). POAC will make or change any and/or all final decisions.

shoeless

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:36 am

QUOTE(POAC @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:13 am)

Well Tamara, I'm sorry you dislike my management style and feel it wasn't justified. But that's me and that's how it's been handled.

I'm not going to allow someone to jeopardize what we have here and I'm not going to refrain from expressing my rage when someone does it.
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I know how you feel man. Sometimes I get ticked off and get, shall we say, a little strident.

peacetakescourage

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:39 am

QUOTE(POAC @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:32 am)

For those who are unfamiliar with our forum guidlines, please read them.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/forum_guidelines.htm

excerpt:
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so what is the point of this thread? sounds to me like you started this thread to get a few pats on the back, but then when someone disagrees with you, you bring up that rule...

if that's the rule, then this thread shouldn't be here at all, or it shouldn't be allowed to have responses to it

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:39 am

QUOTE(kindoki @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:36 am)

WTF? So are you going to ban anyone who disagrees with you?
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Absolutely not. But if you disagree with they way a mod or admin has handled something, it should be done accordingly. And the appropriate rules will be enforced accordingly if it is not.

kindoki

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:45 am

QUOTE(peacetakescourage @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:39 am)

so what is the point of this thread? sounds to me like you started this thread to get a few pats on the back, but then when someone disagrees with you, you bring up that rule...

if that's the rule, then this thread shouldn't be here at all, or it shouldn't be allowed to have responses to it

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I am applying my RIGHT to disobey the rules, because I do not agree with them! I will not engage in a PM discussion with you or anyone, everything should be said in the open.

And where's that reply of yours to tamara's deleted post, saying you were angry???
And where's my reply to that reply??

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:45 am

QUOTE(peacetakescourage @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:39 am)

so what is the point of this thread? sounds to me like you started this thread to get a few pats on the back, but then when someone disagrees with you, you bring up that rule...

if that's the rule, then this thread shouldn't be here at all, or it shouldn't be allowed to have responses to it

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Yeah, I woke up this morning thinking I needed some pats on the back. That's exactly it. The thread is open for disussion. My decision is not.

peacetakescourage

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:48 am

if you're going to delete tamara's post then delete them both.. dont try to trick people into believing that she agreed with your post

the problem here is not the banning.. the problem is how you have turned this into a celebration.. pretty much "yay we have a reason... now tzu is gone"
it's fine to say that someone is banned and state the rule they broke but to then go back and put up petty little attacks is just childish and immature...

and this is coming from a 14 year old

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:50 am

QUOTE(kindoki @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:45 am)

I am applying my RIGHT to disobey the rules, because I do not agree with them! I will not engage in a PM discussion with you or anyone, everything should be said in the open.

And where's that reply of yours to tamara's deleted post, saying you were angry???
And where's my reply to that reply??
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Actually, you don't have a right to disobey the rules. And you've lost your posting ability for 5 days. Any problems with mod/admin decisions will be deleted and handled via PM.

peacetakescourage

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:51 am

looks like there is going to be another church split

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:54 am

QUOTE(peacetakescourage @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 11:48 am)

if you're going to delete tamara's post then delete them both.. dont try to trick people into believing that she agreed with your post

the problem here is not the banning.. the problem is how you have turned this into a celebration.. pretty much "yay we have a reason... now tzu is gone"
it's fine to say that someone is banned and state the rule they broke but to then go back and put up petty little attacks is just childish and immature...

and this is coming from a 14 year old

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I didn't delete that post by Tamara because it wasn't a response to me or anything I said. But now I deleted it for your comfort. Any problems with mod/admin decisions will be deleted and handled via PM. You have lost the ability to post for 5 days as well.

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 12:09 pm

OK, so, just to recap:

If you advocate violence or criminal acts you will be banned immediately.
If you have a problem with a decision that a moderator has made, address it privately to the mods/admins or your posting ability will be suspended/and or you will be banned.
If you try to get around an account suspension by creating a new account, you will be banned permanantly.

tamara

Friday, 19 August 2005, 2:24 pm

sure i'll get banned- if so, it might as well be permanently so.

and i'm also sure that this post will be deleted-

so (sigh)... goodbye friends. its sad that i've been here so long, and that now i must go- but i taught my daughter well- to have backbone AND values, to always stand for what she believes is right.
i've been away at work for a good while today, was startled to find that not only had my post been deleted, but PTC kinkoki had been banned for 5 days for agreeing with me!

so (big breath) here goes:

kinda ironic-

how to get banned in one easy step- was SUPPOSED to be advocating violence-

but now we've realized that it really is DISAGREEING PUBLICALLY WITH THE FORUM ADMINISTRATOR/MODERATOR

if i had realized such a silly and inane rule would be enforced on the board, i'd have never been here, nor would i have encouraged anyone else to post here (as i have, many times).

i won't be back. this is the last childish temper tantrum i will endure.

so:

BE IT KNOWN HEREFORTH AND THENCEWITH (

)

THE POAC MEMBER KNOWN TO HER POAC FRIENDS AS "tamara" SHALL HENCEFORTH POST NO MORE.

DATED THIS the 19th day of AUGUST, IN THE YEAR OF OUR lord 2005.

THIS PUBLIC PROCLAMATION IS ALSO DECLARED PUBLIC, AND TO ACCOMPLISH THE FOLLOWING PURPOSE THEREWITH:

i do hereby state as publicly that i do not agree all the time with the forum administrator, more specifically i do not agree that the administrator's post made NOW the subject of this thread is appropriate or civil. i do not agree with any banning or grade school "time outs" imposed arbitrarily upon PTC or kindoki.

THIS LAST POST OF TAMARA IS DONE WITH THE HIGHEST SENSE OF REGRET THAT HER FRIENDS WHO REMAIN WILL BE FORCED TO TOLERATE ADMINISTRATIVE BIPOLAR OUTBURSTS.

goodbye, friends. wish you all the best-

see you at the protest!

-t-

and in my last act of defiance and moral backbone, i will post PTC's following note- since she was BANNED
(is this absurd, anyone?)

Hey there Everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know that i will be leaving

POAC. There are various reasons that i could go into, but that would

be a reason for this post to be deleted. POAC was fun while it was

fun, but it's not fun anymore, and it seems that is becoming more

and more isolated to everyone but the few who seem to be buddies

on here... like a high school clique. So, I'll be leaving POAC and

won't be returning to post again. It was nice posting with you all. I'd

also like to suggest that anyone who also feels like this about the

forum come over and check out my growing forum, which has no

cliques, few rules, and no banning.

http://www.peacetakescourage.com/forum/

nice knowing ya'll

-Ava-

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 2:36 pm

QUOTE(tamara @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 2:24 pm)

sure i'll get banned- if so, it might as well be permanently so.

and i'm also sure that this post will be deleted-

so (sigh)... goodbye friends. its sad that i've been here so long, and that now i must go- but i taught my daughter well- to have backbone AND values, to always stand for what she believes is right.
i've been away at work for a good while today, was startled to find that not only had my post been deleted, but PTC kinkoki had been banned for 5 days for agreeing with me!
so (big breath) here goes:
kinda ironic-

how to get banned in one easy step- was SUPPOSED to be advocating violence-

but now we've realized that it really is DISAGREEING PUBLICALLY WITH THE FORUM ADMINISTRATOR/MODERATOR
if i had realized such a silly and inane rule would be enforced on the board, i'd have never been here, nor would i have encouraged anyone else to post here (as i have, many times).

i won't be back. this is the last childish temper tantrum i will endure.
so:

BE IT KNOWN HEREFORTH AND THENCEWITH (

)

THE POAC MEMBER KNOWN TO HER POAC FRIENDS AS "tamara" SHALL HENCEFORTH POST NO MORE.

DATED THIS the 19th day of AUGUST, IN THE YEAR OF OUR lord 2005.

THIS PUBLIC PROCLAMATION IS ALSO DECLARED PUBLIC, AND TO ACCOMPLISH THE FOLLOWING PURPOSE THEREWITH:

i do hereby state as publicly that i do not agree all the time with the forum administrator, more specifically i do not agree that the administrator's post made NOW the subject of this thread is appropriate or civil. i do not agree with any banning or grade school "time outs" imposed arbitrarily upon PTC or kindoki.
THIS LAST POST OF TAMARA IS DONE WITH THE HIGHEST SENSE OF REGRET THAT HER FRIENDS WHO REMAIN WILL BE FORCED TO TOLERATE ADMINISTRATIVE BIPOLAR OUTBURSTS.

goodbye, friends. wish you all the best-

see you at the protest!

-t-
and in my last act of defiance and moral backbone, i will post PTC's following note- since she was BANNED
(is this absurd, anyone?)

Hey there Everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know that i will be leaving

POAC. There are various reasons that i could go into, but that would

be a reason for this post to be deleted. POAC was fun while it was

fun, but it's not fun anymore, and it seems that is becoming more

and more isolated to everyone but the few who seem to be buddies

on here... like a high school clique. So, I'll be leaving POAC and

won't be returning to post again. It was nice posting with you all. I'd

also like to suggest that anyone who also feels like this about the

forum come over and check out my growing forum, which has no

cliques, few rules, and no banning.

http://www.peacetakescourage.com/forum/

nice knowing ya'll

-Ava-
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*golf clap*
Very nice. A high score for dramatic performance and an equally high score for prose.

You know, it amazes me after how much my wife and I have sacrificed, given up, and had taken away from us for providing this service to you all, that when I step up to protect it, there are always some who will spit in my face. And when I ask that you spit in my face in private, I am again spat upon.

This isn't the first time you have dramatically exited here saying terrible things about me and what I do, Tamara.

POAC

Friday, 19 August 2005, 2:45 pm

and btw, PTC was suspended from posting because she refused to address her problems with my decisionin a private conversation. She was banned because she then started contacting everyone she could to get them to leave here and go join her forum.

Neither decision was made in regards to her disagreeing with me.

Dr. Left

Friday, 19 August 2005, 5:06 pm

QUOTE(POAC @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 12:36 pm)

*golf clap*
Very nice. A high score for dramatic performance and an equally high score for prose.

You know, it amazes me after how much my wife and I have sacrificed, given up, and had taken away from us for providing this service to you all, that when I step up to protect it, there are always some who will spit in my face. And when I ask that you spit in my face in private, I am again spat upon.

This isn't the first time you have dramatically exited here saying terrible things about me and what I do, Tamara.
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Ya know, I really don't understand what's going here, but I really don't like it, but hey who am I.

Doc

Gadzooks!

Friday, 19 August 2005, 5:23 pm

The original offending post has done its work. The unity of this forum has been broken. Some of our brightest lights are reduced to bickering..."He said she said...". This is how it works, people. Haven't any of you been paying attention to the events of the past five years? I think maybe a bunch of us, yes, US, need to put aside some bruised egos and try pulling together again. We need to emulate what we want from the left, Democrats, Greens, Socialist Workers and Independents. Build a coalition and shake the radical right out of the White House.

Ronnie Jakers

Friday, 19 August 2005, 5:40 pm

QUOTE(Gadzooks! @ Friday, 19 August 2005, 3:23 pm)

The original offending post has done its work. The unity of this forum has been broken. Some of our brightest lights are reduced to bickering..."He said she said...". This is how it works, people. Haven't any of you been paying attention to the events of the past five years? I think maybe a bunch of us, yes, US, need to put aside some bruised egos and try pulling together again. We need to emulate what we want from the left, Democrats, Greens, Socialist Workers and Independents. Build a coalition and shake the radical right out of the White House.
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Excellent post... very well said.

I was just going to blame it on female hormones... and the lunar cycle!

Lunar Cyclehttp://www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/index.php

I know since Wednesday.... at my place of work... all the women (myself included here) have been nasty... looking for a fight. Come Tuesday next week... we will all be back to our angelicselves!

I know... not very feminist of me!

However, you have brought up a great point. We do need to pull together... and build that coalition... (of the intelligent.. and willing) and fight as one. Not talk on this forum or that one... not a listen to this radio show or that one... (ohh and yes all BANN FAUX SNOOZE)

We are in this together.... we all need to support each other, all of us that want a change.... all forums, alternative media outlets, that support real change in the white house....real reform... (however, we can not advocate violence here... nor on any other forum... it's the easiest way to be shut down) Our voices are important... all voices.

sky of mind

Friday, 19 August 2005, 7:06 pm

I also have to agree with Zooks.

Holy christ people! I was only gone over night!
Do I gotta baby sit you guys 24/7???

Tam, and Ava.

I hope you guest in and read this.

I personally hate to see you two go,
but you do what you must.
Personally, I'll miss you both

Tzu,

You been warned bud!
The rules are clearly posted, they apply equally to everyone,
and they are there for specific reason.
When you signed on to the Rose, in that process you agreed to these rules!

As to the content of what you posted, bad move, even if this were the DU!
Recall what I said about Tact? Learn to use it. You'll get more of what you want!
(Unless all you want is to be angry)

TJ and all the Mods,

Thank you for doing the thankless, unpaid, dirty, uncomfortable job you do!
I don't expect anything to be perfect, and I certainly don't expect a fellow human to be perfect.
I know how much you all try to be though.
I know how much you all care about the forum, it's members, and the job of the Liberal Opposition at hand!

From what I have been aboe to gather about this situation, it was a difficult situation, and you all handled it the best you could and in the process, did a good job of it!

The rest of the POAC/WRS forum,

We all know how it goes. From time to time any of us can have a disagreement with another member! It's been my pleasure to have seen first hand the ability of most here to get past individual differances. We can usually at least agree to disagree! I am almost always pleased with the level of respect from each member that is a partial discription of this forum. (Along with other aspects such as Intelligence, Empathy, Patience, Persistance, etc)

Now that this little flair up has happened I hope we're able to use the experience as a learning tool, and not as a wedge. I hope this forum continues to grow and gains popularity as it has been. I hope we who are, have been and will become the regulars here remain a pretty tight bunch of internet liberal forum friends!

And now I think I have said quite enough.

Que the cartoon please........

Joe Cartoon

Go look around and have some fun! (it's free!)

Dave

Friday, 19 August 2005, 8:00 pm

And to think this entire mess started because two posters couldn't take a moment to respond to what the other really wrote instead of what they thought they wrote.

Bad feelings, bad blood, malignancy, all over the inability to just fucking LISTEN.

I don't need to name names, but look at the result.

Now let's move on and make a little resolution to listen as much as we speak while realizing that displacing our justifiable anger over the tragedy that is the Bush Regime towards our fellows is not productive and not one among us is guiltless.

Above all, lighten the fuck up and leave grudges where they belong, in the past.

And btw, that rule about insults based in this and that are not allowed, should be amended. If they are not, how can I deal with Bushbots in my customary manner?

sky of mind

Friday, 19 August 2005, 8:37 pm

QUOTE

And to think this entire mess started because two posters couldn't take a moment to respond to what the other really wrote instead of what they thought they wrote.

Bad feelings, bad blood, malignancy, all over the inability to just fucking LISTEN.

I don't need to name names, but look at the result.

Now let's move on and make a little resolution to listen as much as we speak while realizing that displacing our justifiable anger over the tragedy that is the Bush Regime towards our fellows is not productive and not one among us is guiltless.

Thank you Dave