It's been brought to our attention that there are certain people who are joining progressive forums such as ours posing as progressives and warming up to certain people only to invite them to other forums and groups where their Ip address is collected and malicious things are being done with it.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if someone PMs you and invites you to their "special group for a few select individuals" or a "cool new forum or group" be very very cautious. Stay away from forums and groups if you are unfamiliar with their management or organization. It may be a front group where the idea is to collect any personal information they can (such as if you are posting from work and then notifying your employer)

Every time a good thing happens,
eventually some dick head will come along and try to take advantage of it!


Thanks for the heads up POAC

Keep your firewalls secure, your spamware and AV software up to date,
and never EVER give out personal information!

And then, after you've done everything you should, it still might not be enough!

Good points, and good ideas!

There's an interesting test you can take at http://www.aarp.org to see how vulnerable you might be to identity theft, followed by a quick lesson on how to upgrade your protection. Have your wallet handy if you go there to check it out, because one of the first questions is about what you're carrying with you.

Catherine

Thanks for the warning
VM

Never underestimate the deviousness of the right-wing conservative mind. Remember, they hate us as much or more than we hate them, and they are ready, willing, and able to take their hatred to a whole new level by seeking to punish the "liberal scum" who dare say such things about their cherished Commander in Chief and his noble war to promote freedom and democracy and American values in the world.

I'd like to add a minor point. They're also sociopaths.

I'm sorry, but even though I understand the intent behind this statement and must agree,
I also have to take issue with a statement such as this.


I am a liberal, from a liberal family, a family that has been progressive for many generations! We're also damn proud of our family history.

As a liberal, it's my job and duty to keep an open mind, and a fair mind.
With this IN mind, I cannot condone a blanket statement like this.
It's not only dangerous, it's a mistake.

One of the things we need to try to do as Liberals, is to encourage people to agree with us and join us to help fix the world we live in. I dare say you won't get many conversions by lumping all conservatives into one basket, and then proceeding to call them names! Even if only 1% of convervatives are reasonable people, such things are clearly not fair to that how ever small percentage! And how ever small that percentage is, we need them to help us grow, we need their ideas, and we need to do it simply because it's the right thing to do!


Granted, ass holes are everywhere. (we all have one)
Lets not become that which we dispise, ok?


Think about it.

Sometimes Sky, you have to push the bully back. Never forget that. The bullies are counting on you not defending yourself.

This isn't Marquis of Queensbury Rules or Robert's Rules of Order anymore.

Exactly.

We are fighting ideologically and religiously insane socoiopaths. They don't play nice and human psychology being what it is, it's easier for people to remember a short phrase or slogan, even if it is a lie than to pay attention to a nice, polite, long explanation of the truth. The beauty of it is the Thugs have to rely on lies and mis-representations, we can just tell the truth on them.

Republicans ARE corrupt, power mad, incompetent sleaze bags. There is no convincing any of their cult members, those folks need de-programming and that is not an exaggeration. I think a great number of the conservatives who are NOT cult members are already turning against the Bush thugs. What has to be done now that people are waking up to the monstrosities in power is to motivate people out of a sense of powerlessness and into action and anger, intense anger is needed to do that.

So, I say attack attack attack, short statements calling a spade a spade over and over again. Get iot out there, Attack the media get fucking mad.

I did not say, don't defend yourself!

Absolutely not!


I said, be careful of your broad blanket statements!



When you accuse all conservatives of being "the enemy,"
you also exclude any conservative who might want to help the cause!


Mr Shrub has been the great divider.
Don't you think it best to leave that distinction to those involved,
and not us Progressives.


Personally, I'd rather err on the side of patience and kindness,
than ever attack or offend anyone that does not deserve it!


Should Liberal Progressives defend them selves and their beliefs?

Absofuckinglutely!

Just don't be too eager.




My issue was with the broad blanket statements.
If you insert just one word, it's all good!

(Maybe, some, sometimes, could, a few, maybe not all, etc etc)
You can always add to your statement,
but it's almost impossible to take it back once its been said!


It is entirely possible to be Both,
Strong and resolute, and not become that which you dispise!

I cant believe I am saying this, but I agree with Dave. Two years ago I was die hard pro-Bush, I was basically jacked in to their "news" and information.

Once you realize what is going on, its hard to do anything else but just sit there and do nothing. Liberals want to attack us at every step not understanding we are trying to help them in their fight against the Neo-Cons. It is almost like a cult, like we need a support group once we get out. I know it sounds funny, but their morales and dogma is just that, Dogma, it is not a political group, Its a way of life group. They all agree on everything from how to pee to how to vote.

Liberals need to understand this and not just attack every moderate that comes running your way and by running did I mention sprinting?

When someone realizes their life is wrong, then what is there to fill the void?

The truth, as awful as it may be.

Welcome to the real world. I can understand your distress. It has been hard enough for those of us who could see this nightmare unfolding from the beginning. It must be horrifying to suddenly open your eyes and see the devastation that has been wrought in such a short time by those you formerly supported.

You said you were a Bushie until 2 years ago. I'm guessing the war in Iraq snapped you out of your hypnotic trance. It's interesting to note that support for Bush's war has fallen from the mid 70's percentile to a percentage in the mid thirties. Fully a third of the American people have changed their mind about this murderous conflict over the past two years. These are the very people who must speak up.

As usual, Mark Morford expresses my feelings better than I ever could. Check this out.

Liberals Are So Intolerant!

Very good link there, I enjoyed reading that.
]

But it does not address the issue of people who dont believe what the Neo-cons do. When someone has just one link to the Neo-con, we are grouped with them and given this horrid disdain, like we have offended you.

Like here, often it is assumed in many an answer that I am some right-wing, bushco supporting, freak. Yet I have few things in common with them. I believe now, what most of you believe, yet still the disdain and ridicule when we question.

Where else are we to get answers for our ignorance? Who would you prefer, you or them?

I would suggest us , even though we progressives have gotten pretty testy over the last few years.

I can accept that.

Please understand it from our perspective, knee-jerk reactions can be a bitch. Remember though, from where those knee-jerk reactions are coming from. Many of us have been maligned, attacked, intimidated, threatened and marginalized since the mid 1970s by GOP defined "moderates" and "patriots" who feel that it's their place to decide what is "acceptable" political discourse.

The problem is this. Who should get to define moderate? Should it be a narrow spectrum of conservative thought that gets to define it? Or should it be the whole spectrum of political discourse in the nation?

Think of it this way. If someone comes in here claiming to be a moderate and then proceeds to bitch that we're too liberal, what are we supposed to do? Roll over, slap ourselves on the forehead and say "Wow, I never looked at it that way. You're right; I'm wrong"?

Please don't take this as some sort of attack on your beliefs. It's not. I'm trying to put a face on this for you. By your own admission you're just getting off the GOP Cultist Kool-Aid. A healthy majority of us here have never been on it. It takes a while for you to see us for what we are and it takes a while for us to see you for what you can be.

Does that put it in perspective?

Fair Enough?

We're tired of being stepped on. Of course we've gotten a bit testy!

MasterMind wrote:


I don't see you as rightwing or Bushco supporting, MM, although you admit to having been duped in the past. At least you're able to admit your mistake and that you're trying to rectify it...that speaks volumes about the fact that you've gotten your head on straight and that you're trying to see things from a different perspective.

Something like that takes time and, of course you've got questions. But you also have to develop a tough skin and an objective outlook because the progressives aren't too patient right now with anyone who takes more than a nanosecond to realize that the Bushies have destroyed so much in just five years of rotten leadership.

You've done that, and you're here to learn more, and you've been here for awhile. That, in my opinion, shows a great deal of progress on your part.

Hang in here...we're good people, but we're not ever, ever going to turn our "other cheek" to the rightwing, shit-shoveling, war-mongering, chickenhawk fundies and their monkey boywonder of all idiots.

Catherine

I guess what I need to do is also, dum the idea of Neo-con, Liberal, and Moderate from their point of view and develope one that entails the majority of politics. The problem I have is that all is shown me is ether Dems or Repub. and they seem the same to me, which pisses me off even more.

Also, I question to learn and if I am going to believe what you say, the only way to make someone prove something you do not trust is to attack their stance. I dont mean in a physical sense, just in a debate sence.

Maybe someone should write a book on coming out of being a Neo-con and how to deal with it. Call it "The Real Reality for Dumbies".

Also, I am sorry to the Admin who was the OP, we seriously hijacked your thread.

One thing to bear in mind is how the Democratic Leadership Council (aka Democrats Love Corporations, aka Democratic Leisure Class, aka Destroy Liberalism Completely) have hijacked the Democratic Party. Warmed over wannabe Republican Corporatists are not Democrats. The DLC has sold out Labor, the Middle Class, Small Business, The Poor and Minorities all to cozy up to Big Business in the hope that they'll get votes. They call it "triangulation". Most of us consider it STUPIDITY. As long as these clowns act like Republicans and not an opposition party they'll continue to marginalize the Democratic Party.

Democrats need to act like Democrats. We need a party that represents people, not corporations.

I agree.

"We the People", seems to be failing our countrymen

Here, we seriously try to provide links to FACTS. Liberalism isn't defined by a party.
We are interested in finding out the truth. We've been lied to and we're pissed off too. We keep finding source after source and proof positive that the Bush (mis)administration told HUGE lies. They CONTINUE to lie and/or refuse to answer any questions. There is NO accountability in our current Republican-controlled government. Our Democratic leadership has failed us too. We have a few "keepers" but most Congressthings and Senators are owned by corporations. It's no wonder we don't want to hear any more lying propaganda. We know it's a bunch of LIES. Only sheep accept that tripe. The fact that they know more about a missing blonde girl than the conditions under which our troops serve in Iraq (and elsewhere) makes me sick. Americans are spoiled, lazy and ignorant...and they LIKE it that way. They won't wake up until they've been cleaned out and smashed by debt. Then they'll blame us; the messengers.


Questioning is fine. Depends on what you want to learn. It's not a matter of believing what we say, but taking a cold hard look at the facts and making a reasonable, objective assessment.
All along we warned anyone who would listen about this war...about PNAC...about the motives and backgrounds of these thugs. The facts are the facts. There's no comfort in being right. We go to great lengths to get the facts (with sources) and to be fair. A reasonable person expects rebuttals and discussion to come with some links and evidence to support any given poster's position, no matter what their political leanings.

It's not about Democrats or Republicans anymore.
It's about getting rid of the generic corruption in our government.
It's about being fair to all people. It's about justice.
Every few decades it gets bad enough for people to pay attention.
Our role is to provide solid information; for when they decide to look.
It's assumed that anyone who comes here is in search of the truth.
If not, why else would a person spend any time in here?

Dissemination of information has become a commodity.
The MSM is an example of "Money doesn't talk it screams!"


The truth isn't for the feint of heart.
If you're serious about learning, take it in increments or it is overwhelming.
This site is "The Real Reality for Dumbies" you're looking for...it's all laid out there for anyone to read. POAC's front page is filled with facts, verifiable sources and reality. But some people can't handle the truth, that's a fact too.

Panda,

The POAC front page is better than a gold mine or a diamond mine. The suggested reading list is astounding--I thought I was very well read until I looked at it and found many essential books I'd missed. There never will be a "Wisdom for dummies" manual. I can't stand on one foot and tell someone, in 25 words or less, everything I've spend a lifetime learning. But if there was such a manual, I think most of the footnotes would be references to books on the POAC reading list.

I knew that. I joined one of those groups. I still get their daily digest, though I haven't posted there in a long time. They seem(ed) legit at the time, but then things started happening, and I have more than a "coincidence theory". I must say, rather sheepishly, that the invite came when I was new to political boards, and it grabbed my ego by the short and curlies.