Hey Folks,

I recently read most of an extremely long series of economics articles published in the Asian Times. LONG read, like 120 pages. But it was immensly educational and even inspirational.

In addition to it's intelectual gravity and it's astute dismissal of many myths we are taught about economic realities in the world today, the series also depicts a perspective, based on Socialist thinking, that may offer a distinct ray of hope coming from the far east.

In any case China, the Peoples Republic of, is likely to become formative of our future the way that the Soviet Union was of our recent past. Cold war implications intended.

But what if China was an enormous blessing in disguise.

No matter what, there are dozens of faces to this discussion and years to pan them all out.

Really?

The coming Trade War and Global Depression

120 pages is a lot to ask anyone to read. If you plan to live 10 more years or have a curiosity about the world I strongly urge you to venture at least ten, and go from there.

How are we going to respond to China as a nation, freind or foe, our decision will mean EVERYTHING.

i'll read it and comment afterwards- for now i think we don't have to respond at all to china- they have been isolationist for thousand years- haven't attacked anyone yet, i think never will. mao said that the chinese rural farmer would control what happens in china- they did, and they will- they are now the center of the democratic movement in china.

-t-

I do believe China will be formative in America and the Worlds future.
China has become and is becoming much more Capitolistic. Their people have a little money and want western stuff! Including Cars and the gas to run those cars! On the other hand, what with peak oil, "WE" don't wanna give um "OUR" oil!
Americans seems to have the arrogant view that rampant consumerism is an American right, and today the Chinese are making a huge profit on that view! Thanks in large part to Wal-mart, but by no means only. Almost every large American company has set up shop in China. Any country with that many people, that much territory and that much regional influence, must always be taken serious!

Tamara, I agree theoretically.

But the US Congress has already responded to China in any number of ways.

One (a biggee) by attempting to deny the PRC from buying Unocal with dollars.

That alone is monumental, and the reason stated was "national security".

Also there is the impending sovereignty claim of Taiwan, and the anti nuclear negotiuations with N Korea.

Chine would like to see a nuclear free Korean peninsula. That would require the removal of US nuclear weapons positioned in S Korea.

Three hotspots.

Then there is the impending tarrif scenario as the US (foolishly) reprimands China for pegging the Yuan to the US dollar. The US is threatening a protectionist stature toward China for maintaining a currency stable with the dollar.

(if you have ever done international trade, currency stabilization is a dream compared to the gridlocks caused by constantly fluxuating currency values. Vendors and buyers will typically delay payments for goods and services rendered awaiting better climates for excahnge. This can add so much time to the pace and equanimity of transactions as to seriously disrupt trade at all).

China has simply adopted the most streamlined and user freindly apporoach to trade with the US.

Unfortunately the US has a monumental trade deficit.

So Brain dead senators in the US see China as the source of this problem.

And they chastize China to remedy the currency peg. Of course that will only make the dollar fall like a stone compared to the fiscally solid yuan.

Sky of Mind<

My freinds call me Sky,

Good to post with you.

60% of all the commerce conducted in China is done by foreign corporations.

And YES they seek the same oil we do. And minerals and geostrategic resources.

And YES they challenge our manufacturing, military, space and business superiority.

They also finaced our deficit federal budget (until recently).

Chiona will rival or surpass the US in every way that has geoplotical significance within 5 years unless something (one) intervenes.

I agree, though maybe not 5, maybe 10?
And perhaps having the US lose it's edge would be the best thing to kick some apathetic ass?

most likely old american fear of "communism". if we aren't condemning muslims we always have the good old commies to fall back on.

but, why, of all people, would congress be willing to take such a hard line stand against china? afterall, it was these same politicians that opened up trade agreements with china and allowed american businesses to thrive there. if there is a perceived fear about china's new political and wealthy position in the world, then congress should only blame themselves. they gave their lobbyists the "OK" to invest in china.

so, now that our government has directly built china into a formidable world power, they don't like it? sorry, i can't buy into that "china is a bad guy" crap...if china was good enough for our politicians to embrace, then they can't be all that bad.

MGA,
I think yer average Joe congressditto on the hill doesn't know what to think of China except that they are an unknown quantity, and growing very fast.

The unfortunate reality is that before we as a nation make up our minds what to think, we already are in an economic war with China, in the early throes of a new arms race, at odds with them in global mutual defense pacts and competing for a suddenly finite world oil supply.

I was really impressed with China's socialist economic philosophy, once I got a view of it. Not a nation I would love to hate.

Communism, oh dear, that again.......would the stupid and easily fooled please pack your mind and cram your ass thru door number 11....

We got led into opening up to China, granting Favored nation trade status, by the same clowns who wanted nafta cafta, corporate clowns.

Now that we took a few steps, and find out the China is like pandoras box, somebody suddenly notices they are a socialist country.

But the war on socialism, and communism (100 year propaganda war) was always a war against labor movements.

Nothing more.

corporate america does not recognize political or geographical boundries. to them the world is theirs to take.

on the other hand, the politicians pretend that everyone out there is our alleged enemy and we stupidly believe them, so that the common man will continue to do the dirty work. the same politicians are well paid by corporate lobbyists, and the trick is to keep the dumb public thinking in political and geographic terms.

many americans aren't aware that we already have manufacturing in iran. they have been there for years. my point is why should i consider other countries and their people as my enemy when my own country's corporations don't? why should i be some patriotic flag waving fool when the backbone of america isn't?

as for china....i'm glad to see them rising as a world power. the only way china would be a threat to the US is in retaliation to our government's policies.

Sky...

Nope, it's not the answer but just how well do we know Communism ? Ever been there ?

Jayhawk, I don't suppose any country on earth has yet been a communist country, and I don't advocate it myself.

Most of what is termed communist are actually dictatorial regimes with public ownership of state resources.

What I was refering to was the linking of the popular labor movements of the 1880's with the Russian revolution as a PR tool for some evil force that our national mind spent 80 years learning to love fear and wage cold war with.

In reality the "communist" threat was more like a world wide labor revolt in which institutional wealth and old family wealth might have been redistributed.

Neither of those would hurt or help me, so I don't buy the anti communist rhetoric.

I see little to no chance that Communism will ever spread like wildfire and threaten our freedom.......

MGA, I know it is a lotta ask to suggest you would read the articles posted above. But they are indeed enlighteneing.

I think China might be the best option for world leadership.

If I accept the recent past as a guide to the potential future, all our current gummit has to offer is a never ending nuclear stand off as an arbiter of world struggles for hegemony and dominance.

Sounds fun! Or insane.

China may actually have a world view that can save the rest of us from that outcome.

there's too much turmoil in china right now for them to provide stable leadership. they couldn't possibly provide 'leadership' if they wanted to- and they don't want to.

america is in the best position for world leadership. whitman's america is the ideal- we must bring it back.

-t-

MGA, I know it is a lotta ask to suggest you would read the articles posted above. But they are indeed enlighteneing

i gave it an honest try...but i started to doze off reading...sorry.

China has been building their military complex for a reason. I was hoping Brazil/South America would help us.

Tamara,

I have heard alegoric statements about social unrest and pressures for social reform in China. But have never heard specifics despite a lotta reading.

Is this what you are refering to? What can you share?

Whitman's America. I know very little about Whitman's America. (?)

Hey EugHem,

I actually agree with Tamara about the fact that China has historically been isolationist. And aside from helping to shape the world in a way that benefits their people I doubt they would bother with the rest of the world.

Fortunately what China wants to support it's expanding manufacturing base is a worldwide middle class consumer base. (read even ten pages of the article).

But the US has nuclear weapons in S Korea, 100 miles from mainland china. The US is arming Taiwan, a "rogue renegade " province 150 miles from mainland china. The US is also heavily supporting the militarization of India, and we also have nukes in Okinawa Japan, 450 miles from China

If Chine does strengthen their military it would only be in response to our direct threats in their region.

And the US spends more money on weapons than China does by a factor of 4 to one.

WE ARE INCREASING OUR MILITARY. THE US.

Hey MGA,

I read a lot of long economics articles.

In Contrast the articles (4) in the Asian times are unusually difficult reading as they are densely packed with ideas and concepts.

I can't blame you if you are not in to it.

But if you can manage to read any of it, slowly and carefully it will teach you a ton about China.

Free world, make yourself happy!!

Communism was our Boogee Man for the last 5 or 6 decades. A matter of washing....our brains. It's not all too catchy (Communism)...so no real threat as I see it ...too.
Labor movements are momentarily at a stillstand. But with the fall of living standards....the Labor movement will once again come to life and Big Brother will be marching in step trying to put out the fires as they spread. Yet another Yin and Yang.

I hope you are right Jayhawk.

The economic vote may be the only real vote.

Class war may be the only political reality.

And we DO have taxation without representation!

i didn't say i wasn't into it....i was up late last night playing on the computer then watching that damn tv....then i was up at 4 am.....hardly in a right mind to read. but, when i get the time i'll check it out.

Any country that can step up and challenge the rogue US administration is a savior in my books. My reaction to the utter fiasco Bush has made of US foreign policy is to say we need a new world leader other than than the US.

Its time for the US to relinquish its role of world leader and to give the ball to someone else who certainly cannot do a worse job than BushCo and the Pentagon have done.

I agree AFW,

I think the world agrees too,

Preparations are surely underway, I just hope and pray that a WW is not the arbitor.

Without AMERICA the Peoples "republic" of China would be nothing it was the CFR,CIA that had built that communist regime. THANK YOU NIXON,TRUMAN,FDR,BUSH,CLINTON,RUMSFELD and the other communist sympathizers.

RocketMan!


This thread is a year old!
Are you gonna dredge up the entire archive?

Rocketman!

Please, you have GOT to supply evidence for your claims.
Give us links to REAL information to back up your rants.
Other wise, yer just another loud mouthed, overly emotional kid with little substance above the neck.

Any country that is independent of the US and not a lapdog of the US is good, in my books. Because it is independent of the US and has its own military power, China keeps the US from doing anything the fuck it wants to in Asia (that is, if it were not already so over-extended in Iraq). Imagine that if China were a close ally of the US and could be influenced to cooperate with the US (ala Saudi Arabia)? Now THAT would be a truely dangerous fucking situation for the world there.

Perhaps you can tell that I am a bit Anti-American. Its true. With the Bush administration at the helm, I have 0% trust in US intentions in the world. Until someone else is leading the US, I hope everything goes against what this greedy, malicious, imperialistic, and self-serving Administration tries to do. The fiasco of Iraq is only the beginning.

cry me a river

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth. And that is the truth." - Me

Cry YOU a river?
Young one, You're the ignorant one making all the noise.