folkie
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 2:10 am
Bush has threatened to veto next year's defense bill if Congress insists on investigating torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
Remember when Clinton called Newt's bluff on the budget?
If there's anyone left in Congress with any guts, the war is over. All they have to do is call his bluff, and he'll defund the war to get even. And no, not even red states will blame the Democrats.
The problem is that McCain, who has been a victim of torture himself when he was a POW, is probably going to cave. The Democrats in the House can investigate all they want, but since the Republicans won't let them use a hearing room and the media won't cover it, it's the sound of one hand clapping. The Democrats in the Senate, with perhaps one or two exceptions, are going to do whatever the White House tells them to, because without the White House, they can't get reelected. They know better than anyone else that most people voted Democrat in 2000 and 2004, and that the Republicans rigged the results, so they have to cater to the Republicans in order to get reelected. And it is more than likely that they've already made a deal with the Republicans, who are up to their necks in alligators, to not rock the boat if they're elected in '06 and '08.
But we've already seen how Rove committed treason just to get revenge on someone who opposed the PNAC agenda. I'm sure Bush would cut his own throat to get revenge if Congress didn't obey him, thinking that he could spin it and blame it on the Democrats. But when Newt shut down government, nobody blamed it on the Democrats, and if Bush vetoes the defense bill, nobody who supports the war or has friends or family over there is going to blame the Democrats.
If I wasn't sure that Congress was going to cave, I'd be laughing my head off watching Bush threaten to cut off funds for Cheney and Halliburton. It'll never happen, of course, but the mere thought of it is funnier than heck.
sky of mind
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 11:08 am
| QUOTE (folkie @ Sunday, 24 July 2005, 2:10 am) |
Bush has threatened to veto next year's defense bill if Congress insists on investigating torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
Remember when Clinton called Newt's bluff on the budget?
If there's anyone left in Congress with any guts, the war is over. All they have to do is call his bluff, and he'll defund the war to get even. And no, not even red states will blame the Democrats.
The problem is that McCain, who has been a victim of torture himself when he was a POW, is probably going to cave. The Democrats in the House can investigate all they want, but since the Republicans won't let them use a hearing room and the media won't cover it, it's the sound of one hand clapping. The Democrats in the Senate, with perhaps one or two exceptions, are going to do whatever the White House tells them to, because without the White House, they can't get reelected. They know better than anyone else that most people voted Democrat in 2000 and 2004, and that the Republicans rigged the results, so they have to cater to the Republicans in order to get reelected. And it is more than likely that they've already made a deal with the Republicans, who are up to their necks in alligators, to not rock the boat if they're elected in '06 and '08.
But we've already seen how Rove committed treason just to get revenge on someone who opposed the PNAC agenda. I'm sure Bush would cut his own throat to get revenge if Congress didn't obey him, thinking that he could spin it and blame it on the Democrats. But when Newt shut down government, nobody blamed it on the Democrats, and if Bush vetoes the defense bill, nobody who supports the war or has friends or family over there is going to blame the Democrats.
If I wasn't sure that Congress was going to cave, I'd be laughing my head off watching Bush threaten to cut off funds for Cheney and Halliburton. It'll never happen, of course, but the mere thought of it is funnier than heck. |
See, again I absolutely agree!
Bush placed his bluff in play knowing FULL WELL lawmakers would NOT cross "the man"(?)
I can only hope the special prosecutor will be able to take Rove down,
and this will cause a cascade effect, at which time all these coat tail riders
will feel free to jump on and derail Bushco.
I have to admit though, right now I'm feeling very pessimistic!
America is screwed for decades. (if not longer!)
BTW.
China is poised to be the next superpower.
And what's scary, they can do it!
Think Uncle Sam would simply let that happen?
The future doesn't look good boys and girls!
And I'M the one that preaches the power of optomism!
Call his bluff? Ha!
Besides Dean, the Dems lack leadership!
MasterMind
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 11:29 am
Why do the democrates keep complaining about lack of leadership? This is the main thing that turns me off from them. They are basiclly saying they lack the skills, the desire, even the balls, to Lead even a bunch of lossers.
It takes one step to Stand forward. If I ever had the chance some of these fat cows get. I would take us somewhere we have never been.
Just imagine for a short moment, what our civilzation would be like if we all got along? Even on a civil and respectful manner? Imagine for a short while, what humans would be holding in their grasp. Now that it is in your mind, GRAB IT!.
Talking about not having a leader does not make one grow, ether make a leader or shut up, sit down, and follow someone else.
sky of mind
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 12:14 pm
| QUOTE (MasterMind @ Sunday, 24 July 2005, 11:29 am) |
Why do the democrates keep complaining about lack of leadership? This is the main thing that turns me off from them. They are basiclly saying they lack the skills, the desire, even the balls, to Lead even a bunch of lossers.
It takes one step to Stand forward. If I ever had the chance some of these fat cows get. I would take us somewhere we have never been.
Just imagine for a short moment, what our civilzation would be like if we all got along? Even on a civil and respectful manner? Imagine for a short while, what humans would be holding in their grasp. Now that it is in your mind, GRAB IT!.
Talking about not having a leader does not make one grow, ether make a leader or shut up, sit down, and follow someone else. |
Sorry MasterMind, but I am not in any position to step up to this plate.
That doesn't mean I can't see we don't have any hitters on the field!
I am but one humble man.
I cannot do it all.
But I can do what one humble man can.
And that is what I do.
In the mean time, without strong leadership, the Dems in the house and senate will not lead for us!
The Repugs have an over kill of leadership, many of whom anger me no end!
Another analogy.....
I may not be able to paint,
that doesn't mean I don't know good art when I see it!
So, what do I mean by leadership?
I mean persons whos aims and means are not centered on self interests!
Persons who are elected to office and intend to do what needs to be done,
for no other reason than because it needs to be done!!!
In my opinion a true leader is one who gains glory for the fight,
and does not accept it because they were only doing the job they were hired to do!
One doesn't deserve glory simply for doing what they were supposed to do!
A leader is one who walks the talk.
They say what they mean, and mean exactly what they say!
And then back up their words with actions, because we all know words mean nothing,
actions mean everything!
A Leader leads by example.
How can you follow anyone that doesn't walk their own talk?
How can you respect someone that says one thing and does another?
Now I will ask you, in the Democratic party,
do we have an abundance of leaders that lead by these simple rules?
Walk the talk, lead by example!
A few yes. But clearly not enough.
And how do we get those who need reminding to do what they should?
Well, for one, follow Folksters suggestion for election reforms.
And the other more immediate, is write letters, protest, place bumper stickers, do anything you can in whatever way you can to get your voice and opinion out there and known! If you are correct, others will join you and do the same, in what ever way they can, large or small. Lead by example, and others will follow.
I'm sorry Mindmaster, but we can't all run for government, or lead protest marches, or work on reform committes. But each of us in our own ways can and do contribute.
My leadership, like my spirituality, is individual to me, as it is to you!
MasterMind
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 12:39 pm
True Leadership is not born, it is made. the standards you have given are unreasonable.
You want to know why, because anyone who would live up to those values would never run for office the way it is today. You are basically asking someone of Saladin's character and morale to step into a contest of Courage with abunch of proven cowards. These people only become leaders only when forced to. Power corrupts and those with the wisdom to see that, know to stay away from it.
We need to open the eyes of America as a whole, so that they can see what dire straights they are in. You are correct that you are just one person, but why do you just to be just one person.
We are at a point ladies and gentlemen, when are low voices are not enough. We need to get beyond just words lost in the crowd.
sky of mind
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 12:52 pm
| QUOTE |
| True Leadership is not born, it is made. the standards you have given are unreasonable. |
Sorry, I can't agree. These standards are not so high that I can't livethem myself!
| QUOTE |
| You want to know why, because anyone who would live up to those values would never run for office the way it is today. |
Laughing out Loud! Too Troo
| QUOTE |
| You are basically asking someone of Saladin's character and morale to step into a contest of Courage with abunch of proven cowards. These people only become leaders only when forced to. Power corrupts and those with the wisdom to see that, know to stay away from it. |
So what do we do? We make noise and threaten to kick their sorry ass's to the curb! We let these people know we are NOT satisfied!
| QUOTE |
| We need to open the eyes of America as a whole, so that they can see what dire straights they are in. You are correct that you are just one person, but why do you just to be just one person. |
Yes we do need to open eyes. But history shows this is not easy. Even during the darkest days of WWII there were apathetic people. I am just one man. I didn't say I could do nothing. What each of us can do depends upon the individual, not you or me to decide.
| QUOTE |
| We are at a point ladies and gentlemen, when are low voices are not enough. We need to get beyond just words lost in the crowd. |
Agreed!
"And therefore, all of those for whom authentic transformation has deeply unseated their souls must, I believe, wrestle with the profound moral obligation to shout from the heart-perhaps quietly and gently, with tears of reluctance; perhaps with fierce fire and angry wisdom; perhaps with slow and careful analysis; perhaps by unshakable public example-but authenticity always and absolutely carries a demand and duty: you must speak out, to the best of your ability, and shake the spiritual tree, and shine your headlights into the eyes of the complacent. You must let that radical realization rumble through your veins and rattle those around you.
Alas, if you fail to do so, you are betraying your own authenticity.You are hiding your true estate. You don't want to upset others because you don't want to upset your self. You are acting in bad faith, the taste of a bad infinity.
Because, you see, the alarming fact is that any realization of depth carries a terrible burden: Those who are allowed to see are simultaneously saddled with the obligation to communicate that vision in no uncertain terms. That is the bargain. You were allowed to see the truth under the agreement that you would communicate it to others (that is the ultimate meaning of the bodhisattva vow). And therefore, if you have seen, you simply must speak out. Speak out with compassion, or speak out with angry wisdom, or speak out with skillful means, but speak out you must.
This is truly a terrible burden, a horrible burden, because in anycase there is no room for timidity. The fact that you might be wrong is simply no excuse: you might be right in your communication, and you might be wrong, but that doesn't matter. What does matter, as Kierkegaard so rudely reminded us, is that only by investing and speaking your vision with passion, can the truth, one way or another, finally penetrate the reluctance of the world. If you are right, or if you are wrong, it is only your passion that will force either to be discovered. It is your duty to promote that discovery-either way-and therefore it is your duty to speak your truth with whatever passion and courage you can find in your heart. You must shout, in whatever way you can."
Ken Wilbur
shoeless
Sunday, 24 July 2005, 8:11 pm
Bush will get what he wants, and that is torture and lots of money to torture, kill, and maim. This bill will go to conference committee, where Tom Delay and the rest of the maniacal House Republican leadership will change the language, so that Bush can sign the bill. This has happened repeatedly over the last 5 years. That's why Bush has never had to veto a bill.
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