http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008
Full Version: Finally!
| QUOTE |
| The headline might be a little expansive since the national headquarters has not yet echoed it, but it's still pretty impressive as it is: "Kerry/Edwards Campaign Joins Ohio Recount." The news release was issued this afternoon over the signature of Ohio's Democratic chairman, Dennis White: "As Senator Kerry stated in his concession speech in Boston, we do not necessarily expect the results of the election to change, however, we believe it necessary to make sure everyone's vote is counted fairly and accurately." White called for witnesses, volunteers, and donations. The statement ends nearly three weeks of official Democratic ambivalence towards the formal recount process in the election's decisive state. As late as Friday, Senator Kerry's email to 3,000,000 supporters contained a seemingly ambiguous reference to that process, which began with the phrase "Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted, and believe me they will be counted, we will continue to challenge the administration." It had been left to the independent parties, the Greens and Libertarians, to do the initial work demanding a recount in each of Ohio's 88 counties. Their combined effort led to a bond of $113,600 being posted with the state last Friday to guarantee the coverage of expenses incurred. Just today, the "Glibs" amplified their demands in Ohio, filing a federal lawsuit that, if successful, would require the completion of the "full, hand recount" before the meeting of the Electoral College on December 13. The Ohio Democrats did not attach themselves to the lawsuit. "The recount can begin after the official results are certified, which likely will be in the first week of December," reads the news release. "The Democratic party wants to be fully prepared to begin a recount immediately." Howard Fineman joins me on Countdown tonight at 8 and Midnight eastern to discuss the ramifications. E-mail KOlbermann@MSNBC.com |
Keith Olbermann, I could freakin' KISS you! This is the news we've been waiting all month to hear!!!
'Bina.
Geez ... It's about time! With the weight of the Democratic Party behind this lawsuit the chances of it being successful are much higher. Kudos to the "Glibs" for the highest measure of public service. 
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Monday, 22 November 2004, 9:29 pm) |
| Geez ... It's about time! With the weight of the Democratic Party behind this lawsuit the chances of it being successful are much higher. Kudos to the "Glibs" for the highest measure of public service. |
Fantastic....
A co-worker of mine, who is also a progressive activist and who campaigned with me a few times, asked me a question I couldn't answer. Maybe somebody else has some idea. The question is, if the electronic voting machines leave no paper trail and were used in Ohio, and if those machines were used to rig the vote, then how is a recount going to help anything? It may (or may not) catch the fraudulent paper ballots, miscounts, double-counts and maybe even undercounts--but if there's no paper trail for the machines, then how is a recount going to matter with regard to the electronic votes? I mean, there's no way to recount those, right?
On the other hand, I've followed the story from Volusia County, Florida, in which Bev Harris and Black Box Voting were able to seize original printout tapes from election night and compare them with a later printout which was actually used for the tally, and found hundreds of Kerry votes had been flipped to Bush sometime after the first tape was printed. So this suggests that in at least some cases, a recount of electronic votes could produce a more accurate result, at least with regards to any votes that were altered after the first tape was produced on election night, right?
And on a related note, what are the chances of people actually being prosecuted for frauds like happened in Volusia County and going to prison? In the Volusia County case, somebody needs to go to prison. I think vote fraud on such a scale needs to be prosecuted as a capital offense. This isn't like shoplifting or disorderly conduct--this is a massive offense against democracy, the nation, and its people!
On the other hand, I've followed the story from Volusia County, Florida, in which Bev Harris and Black Box Voting were able to seize original printout tapes from election night and compare them with a later printout which was actually used for the tally, and found hundreds of Kerry votes had been flipped to Bush sometime after the first tape was printed. So this suggests that in at least some cases, a recount of electronic votes could produce a more accurate result, at least with regards to any votes that were altered after the first tape was produced on election night, right?
And on a related note, what are the chances of people actually being prosecuted for frauds like happened in Volusia County and going to prison? In the Volusia County case, somebody needs to go to prison. I think vote fraud on such a scale needs to be prosecuted as a capital offense. This isn't like shoplifting or disorderly conduct--this is a massive offense against democracy, the nation, and its people!
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Tuesday, 23 November 2004, 7:21 am) |
| |
| QUOTE |
| A co-worker of mine, who is also a progressive activist and who campaigned with me a few times, asked me a question I couldn't answer. Maybe somebody else has some idea. The question is, if the electronic voting machines leave no paper trail and were used in Ohio, and if those machines were used to rig the vote, then how is a recount going to help anything? It may (or may not) catch the fraudulent paper ballots, miscounts, double-counts and maybe even undercounts--but if there's no paper trail for the machines, then how is a recount going to matter with regard to the electronic votes? I mean, there's no way to recount those, right? |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the recount is actually to force them to count the proventional and absentee votes. Now as far as an audit of the system wouldn't it be an audit of the machine code, I mean if votes are to be flipped in the system it would have to be in the software somewhere, wouldn't it.
| QUOTE |
| On the other hand, I've followed the story from Volusia County, Florida, in which Bev Harris and Black Box Voting were able to seize original printout tapes from election night and compare them with a later printout which was actually used for the tally, and found hundreds of Kerry votes had been flipped to Bush sometime after the first tape was printed. So this suggests that in at least some cases, a recount of electronic votes could produce a more accurate result, at least with regards to any votes that were altered after the first tape was produced on election night, right? |
This is really going to be interesting, we know fraud to place, but will it be prosecuted? The repugs don't care about the rule of law, they just want the power.
| QUOTE |
| And on a related note, what are the chances of people actually being prosecuted for frauds like happened in Volusia County and going to prison? In the Volusia County case, somebody needs to go to prison. I think vote fraud on such a scale needs to be prosecuted as a capital offense. This isn't like shoplifting or disorderly conduct--this is a massive offense against democracy, the nation, and its people! |
Let's hope so but don't hold your breath.....damn I hate being so negative...
Doc
Bina... can I eat your collection of funky hats? I told Bu if I was wrong... I'd eat mine... and all yours.... Hmmmm how about a red one first?! 
| QUOTE (Ronnie Jakers @ Tuesday, 23 November 2004, 8:16 am) |
| Bina... can I eat your collection of funky hats? I told Bu if I was wrong... I'd eat mine... and all yours.... Hmmmm how about a red one first?! |
Damn I wish the news would cover this, it's like if it's not covered it doesn't exist....
Doc
What Kerry or my eating Bina's funky hat collection? 
Well, I don't have any red hats, but...would a purple beret do?
I hope BEV Harris puts KATHERINE Harris in jail. And right now, it's looking very likely that someone high up in Florida will be headed for the ol' slammeroo soon...
'Bina.
I hope BEV Harris puts KATHERINE Harris in jail. And right now, it's looking very likely that someone high up in Florida will be headed for the ol' slammeroo soon...
'Bina.
Ohio used punchcards and Paper ballots scanned by the diebold optical scanner, scanned results were then fed into a GEMS tabulator--a PC.
SO In Ohio there exists a paper trail FOR EVERY BALLOT. TA DA.
Ohio did not use touchscreen voting. TA DA.
SO In Ohio there exists a paper trail FOR EVERY BALLOT. TA DA.
Ohio did not use touchscreen voting. TA DA.
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Tuesday, 23 November 2004, 9:33 am) |
| Ohio used punchcards and Paper ballots scanned by the diebold optical scanner, scanned results were then fed into a GEMS tabulator--a PC. SO In Ohio there exists a paper trail FOR EVERY BALLOT. TA DA. Ohio did not use touchscreen voting. TA DA. |
Thank God...
Doc
Just staying ahead of the curve ya know---thats why Ive been soo hearted by the outsourcing of the legal battle-- I knew there were more than 1 way to win this.
ANd Now SOme of you folks may understand my ebulence.
WAke up smell the freakin coffee--this isnt over--the fight goes on, and the battle can be won. Do you see the road to victory or do I have to spell it again.
Roj goes running off into the distance--yelling- Kerry--Kerry
ANd Now SOme of you folks may understand my ebulence.
WAke up smell the freakin coffee--this isnt over--the fight goes on, and the battle can be won. Do you see the road to victory or do I have to spell it again.
Roj goes running off into the distance--yelling- Kerry--Kerry
So answer me this... ohhh wise one.... as I sit and chew on Bina's purple berret...
Why is no one looking at Iowa as well. They had touch screens... those who voted early... had their votes entered by hand...by someone else...into the touch screen! Not all counties.... the bigger ones used the scan.
Or is this just sitting in the wings... waiting for the outcome on all touch screen issues... and we will look at this later?
Who new the french made tastey hats as well as fries and pastry!
Why is no one looking at Iowa as well. They had touch screens... those who voted early... had their votes entered by hand...by someone else...into the touch screen! Not all counties.... the bigger ones used the scan.
Or is this just sitting in the wings... waiting for the outcome on all touch screen issues... and we will look at this later?
Who new the french made tastey hats as well as fries and pastry!
What a singularly depressing thought--that these things could be delayed so long that the truth, if it ever comes out, won't be regarded (because by then you'll be at war with IRAN, don'cha know...)
I keep thinking, too, how different it is up here. No long lineups at ANY polling station because there are plenty of them, and enough pollworkers staffing them. In the last federal election, this summer, I was in and out the doors in under five minutes. By 1:00 a.m., we knew who our Prime Minister was, and how many seats in Parliament each party had. Even BC, which is on the west coast and therefore the last province to vote, and which has the shortest balloting time as a result, had no problems. Elections Canada may be "Big Government", but at least it regulates things so no one here has ever complained of disenfranchisement. Diebold? Pfeh.
And all this with good old-fashioned simple paper ballots--ONLY hand-counted! How about that, eh?
'Bina.
I keep thinking, too, how different it is up here. No long lineups at ANY polling station because there are plenty of them, and enough pollworkers staffing them. In the last federal election, this summer, I was in and out the doors in under five minutes. By 1:00 a.m., we knew who our Prime Minister was, and how many seats in Parliament each party had. Even BC, which is on the west coast and therefore the last province to vote, and which has the shortest balloting time as a result, had no problems. Elections Canada may be "Big Government", but at least it regulates things so no one here has ever complained of disenfranchisement. Diebold? Pfeh.
And all this with good old-fashioned simple paper ballots--ONLY hand-counted! How about that, eh?
'Bina.
| QUOTE (BinaBecker @ Tuesday, 23 November 2004, 10:13 am) |
| What a singularly depressing thought--that these things could be delayed so long that the truth, if it ever comes out, won't be regarded (because by then you'll be at war with IRAN, don'cha know...) I keep thinking, too, how different it is up here. No long lineups at ANY polling station because there are plenty of them, and enough pollworkers staffing them. In the last federal election, this summer, I was in and out the doors in under five minutes. By 1:00 a.m., we knew who our Prime Minister was, and how many seats in Parliament each party had. Even BC, which is on the west coast and therefore the last province to vote, and which has the shortest balloting time as a result, had no problems. Elections Canada may be "Big Government", but at least it regulates things so no one here has ever complained of disenfranchisement. Diebold? Pfeh. And all this with good old-fashioned simple paper ballots--ONLY hand-counted! How about that, eh? 'Bina. |
I know these guys have a war with Iran waiting in the wings, so that if there is a recount, that the focus would be taken away from the recount and be focused on war....I hate the righ wing....
'Doc
| QUOTE (Dr. Left @ Tuesday, 23 November 2004, 10:17 am) |
| I know these guys have a war with Iran waiting in the wings, so that if there is a recount, that the focus would be taken away from the recount and be focused on war....I hate the righ wing.... 'Doc |
Yeah I know--. The EU diplomatic effort may have forestalle that for now, Roj crosses fingers.
On Iowa--by it self Iowa doesnt put kerry in the WH, with Nev, New Mexico and Idaho yes--all 4 states do Put Kerry in the WH. SO those efforts in thosestates have sort of taken a back seat--Plus w/touchscreens---all we can do is audit the GEMS tabulators there is no digital representation of Individual votes-Darn it.
SO recourse may be the # of machines in locales--were there any lines? would head one in the right direction. Yeah touchscreens suck massivly
And to make a sports anology--Bush is running the clock out- They have now shown their hand-so CLock managment is going to decide the winner.
Unless.............
Unless.............
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Wednesday, 24 November 2004, 8:19 am) |
| And to make a sports anology--Bush is running the clock out- They have now shown their hand-so CLock managment is going to decide the winner. Unless............. |
....Alright I'll bite, unless what....
Doc
I'm sorry I didnt mean it like that DOC---But now that I did it like that, I guess I have to follow thru------well ----THe powers that be might decide that Bush is unteniable----AND we can help the Unteniable factor go up--
By hitting the streets in small groups with signs---that say --HONK for KERRY--Kerry won___we can prove it----sound familiar yet?
By hitting the streets in small groups with signs---that say --HONK for KERRY--Kerry won___we can prove it----sound familiar yet?
Oh, you mean the vote-haters will get to call us "Sore-Losermans" again?
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Wednesday, 24 November 2004, 8:44 am) |
| I'm sorry I didnt mean it like that DOC---But now that I did it like that, I guess I have to follow thru------well ----THe powers that be might decide that Bush is unteniable----AND we can help the Unteniable factor go up-- By hitting the streets in small groups with signs---that say --HONK for KERRY--Kerry won___we can prove it----sound familiar yet? |
Yup....
Doc
With one protest already gone violent and police arresting some staying away from these large groups is problematic.
Smaller groups, spread over a larger area can have a bigger effect---Shows that we voted for Kerry--we know he won. We can prove it.
Totally sponteanious show of Support, --wink--
Smaller groups, spread over a larger area can have a bigger effect---Shows that we voted for Kerry--we know he won. We can prove it.
Totally sponteanious show of Support, --wink--
| QUOTE |
| John Kerry's campaign has joined a lawsuit by third-party presidential candidates seeking a recount in Ohio. A lawyer for the campaign said Thursday the campaign does not question the Democrat's loss but wants any counting to take place statewide. Kerry's campaign this week joined the suit filed by Green and Libertarian party candidates seeking a recount of the vote in Delaware County. A judge in that county issued a restraining order blocking that request, but the order expired Thursday. A hearing is set in federal court in Columbus on Friday on the recount request. "The Kerry-Edwards campaign felt it had to intervene," said Daniel Hoffheimer, a Cincinnati lawyer who represents the campaign in Ohio. "We did not want a recount to go forward if it only was 87 (of Ohio's 88) counties." The two minor parties also have asked for a statewide recount, but a judge ruled that cannot begin until Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell certifies the vote, likely on Monday. The parties say they have raised the $113,600 fee the state requires to conduct the recount. The Kerry campaign isn't disputing the outcome of President Bush's Nov. 2 victory in Ohio -- a 136,000-vote margin, based on unofficial results -- but wants to make sure any recount is "done accurately and completely," Hoffheimer said. Hoffheimer said he knew of no other challenge by the campaign to the national election results. Bush won the national popular vote by about 3 percentage points, but Ohio's 20 electoral votes would have been enough to turn the race for Kerry. Meanwhile, a lawyer representing a group alleging fraud in the Ohio presidential election put off until at least Friday the filing of a challenge to the results. Cliff Arnebeck, who alleges that votes intended for Kerry were shifted to Bush, said his legal team needed more time to collect and analyze evidence. He said the filing could take place as late as Monday. In another development, Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., sent a letter to Blackwell asking for his assistance in a House Judiciary Committee Democratic staff investigation of "election irregularities.'' That probe would be in addition to one sought by the Government Accountability Office. Complaints received by congressional Democrats include disparities in vote totals for Democrats on the same ballot; too few voting machines in urban, Democrat-leaning precincts; and organized campaigns directing voters to the wrong polling place. Blackwell's office is working with the GAO and "would be happy to fill in the gaps of information from the GAO and what Congressman Conyers is requesting," spokesman Carlo LoParo said. He said a review of media reports would answer many of Conyers' questions. |
Please, PLEASE let there be a full hand recount!
'Bina.
| QUOTE (BinaBecker @ Friday, 3 December 2004, 9:12 pm) | ||
| UPDATE: http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/12/03/ohio/index.html
Please, PLEASE let there be a full hand recount! 'Bina. |
Yes....pleassssse....
'Doc
| QUOTE (Dr. Left @ Thursday, 9 December 2004, 12:14 pm) | ||||
Yes....pleassssse.... 'Doc |
Still graspin at straws...
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
More like bales.
They make great bonfires, y'know.
'Bina.
They make great bonfires, y'know.
'Bina.
| QUOTE (sarasotarepub @ Thursday, 9 December 2004, 6:58 pm) | ||||||
Still graspin at straws... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
No you see grasping at straws is when you are grabbing at anything no matter how minute, I wouldn't say stealing an entire states votes is grasping a straws, I'd say that is more like stating the obvious you schmuck....
'Doc
| QUOTE (BinaBecker @ Thursday, 9 December 2004, 7:18 pm) |
| More like bales. They make great bonfires, y'know. 'Bina. |
Yah and your president is sitting right on top of the bales too....
'Doc
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