Has anyone seen it? It sound really bad but i think i want to see it. I read reviews that said that it was terrible. Does anyone know if it is worth seeing?

Lemme guess....... a very bad very right wing retarded "attack" on MrMoore which proves just how mental they all are?

Anytime that you ask people on the right to point out lies in Moore's films they alway say one thing.

"He is fat."


Oh, and what the fuck is Ed Kotch doing running around with the republicans. The problem is, that a lot of these people figure out that there is more money to be made if you are a republican, so that is what they do. They sell out their belifes so that they can make money hand over fist.

must not of been a big seller, you can get the book for a buck and the movie for $6

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PA...&CID=55589&FP=F

Heh that's actually funny.

Did I read right--these cartoons are from Cox?

If so, enough said.

My brother got a copy of the movie and the parts that i have seen are god awful. They jump from subject to subject randomly and very quickly. Their rebuttal to when Moore talks about the members of the Bin Laden family being let out of the country right after 9/11 is Ron Silver saying "Well I would want to leave too. I think that anyone would want to leave." They seem like they are in a rush, like they are trying to cram in as much as possible in just 80 min. They probably wanted to get it out before the election, so they didn't have time for proper writing or editing. I will watch the whole thing and give you guys a fair review .

By the way, if you want to see a classic debate featuring Ron Silver, try to find the time that he and Al Sharpton argued on Bill Maher.

This movie was terrible and it made me want to go watch Fahrenheit 9/11. It is just a bunch of bush talking points and provides no real evidence of Moore lying about anything. Towards the end of the movie, everything really falls apart and things get really random and repetitive. I say, don’t see this movie. It is about as factual and educational as a Bush reelection commercial.

Here is what the movie is about.

-Teacher who was in classroom with Bush on 9/11 says he made all the right decisions.

-Bush didn't steal the election in 2000

-9/11 and war drumming

-Clinton is to blame for 9/11

-Clinton had ties with Taliban, not bush

-Clinton wanted pipeline in Afghanistan, not bush

-Pipeline in Afghanistan was built but not really

-Clinton was 100% against fighting terrorism and let bin laden go on purpose

-Bush is the only one who can fight terrorism and completely selfless

-There are terrorist everywhere and no one is safe

-Clinton helped terrorist

-Bush is one of the greatest figures in American history

-Don't vote Kerry

-Bush was on vacation during first eight months but he did some stuff too

-Bush did make "have mores" comment but he later made fun of the way he looks, so it doesn't matter.

-Bush doesn't have Saudi connections

-Clinton has ties to Carlyle Group, not Bush

-Kerry and Moore have ties to Bin Laden

-Bin Laden Family didn't leave country on sep.13, 2001 but they did but Richard Clarke let them go, but had nothing to do with it.

-Richard Clarke is to blame for Bin Laden getting away

-Saudis have no influence on U.S. policy, except when it comes to democratic presidents.

-Bush's doesn't benefit from Saudi Arabia

-People who believe Bush has Saudi connections are not well educated

-West Coast is well defended but its not but Moore shouldn't have said it

-Bush is not to blame for lack of federal protection in Oregon

-Ashcroft is allowed to sing

-Porter Goss has a phone number

-Patriot Act is fucking great

-Patriot Act stops terrorist all the time

-warrants are bad

-civil liberties help terrorist

-Bush has let most of the bill of rights stay intact

-Bush couldn't have stopped 9/11 because of Clinton policies

-Iraq was a major threat to u.s.

-Bush was very reluctant to go to war with Iraq

-Bush and his friends do not benefit from Iraq war

-French, Russians and Germens didn't go into Iraq because their leaders where all friends of Saddam

-Saddam had major terrorist ties. No specifics were given.

-Saddam was about to attack the u.s.

-Zell Miller once found a snake in his back yard.

-Diplomacy is bad and slows things down

-Bush is great at diplomacy

-Our old allies have no real use anymore

-Liberals are demons

-Saddam and 9-11 are used a lot in same sentences

-Bush really, really didn't want to go to war with Iraq

-Even though no WMD were found, Iraq is still a great war

-Liberals are demons, still

-Liberals are demons

-Saddam was Hitler

-Liberals are demons

-Liberals are out of touch with reality

-Bush is a saint

-Liberals are demons

-Liberals wouldn't have went to WWII

-Liberals will some day praise bush

-Terrorist are everywhere

-Liberals are demons

-Moore has terrorist ties

-Anyone who thinks like Moore is un-American (they flat out said it)

-Stay away from Arabs

-Years down the road, Fahrenheit 9/11 will be seen as 100% false

-Children haven't really died in Iraq war

-Saddam was bad

-Moore helps terrorist and is kind of like Hitler

-Moore hates the troops

-Most troops want to be in Iraq

-Moore used the troops

-Moore is a Nazi and a Nazi

-Moore is a war monger

-Most people don't like Moore

-Moore is a Nazi

-Moore hates America

-If you think like Moore, then you are a fool

-"Moore is un-American, he is unbriton, he must be French."

-No one really liked Fahrenheit 9/11

-You should always support your leaders

-Support the war!

the link


Michael Moore says gets
lots of Republican hugs
By Kevin Krolicki
Sun Jul 30, 10:34 PM ET



Michael Moore -- gadfly filmmaker, liberal activist and political lightning rod -- says he finds himself being hugged by a lot of Republicans these days.

On the streets of Traverse City, where Moore is working on last-minute preparations for a bigger-and-better sequel to the film festival he launched last year in his home state, the Oscar-winning director says he is approached all the time by conservatives ready to make peace.

"If you were to hang out with me here it won't be five or 10 minutes before you see a Republican hug me. That is almost as entertaining as some of the films," Moore said in an interview.

Moore has not budged from the central claim of his 2004 documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" -- that the Bush administration misled the American public about the reasons for war in Iraq -- but he says that more people have come around to his view.

"That's the shift that I'm seeing in the past year or so in the country, and as it relates to me," he said.

Some in solidly Republican northern Michigan and elsewhere now believe that they made a "colossal mistake" in initially supporting the war in Iraq, Moore said, and they have let him know it in chance encounters on the streets of Traverse City, a resort town where he has relocated from New York.

Used to traveling with security and encountering a barrage of hostility, Moore said he finds people now more accepting, even to the point Republicans are spontaneously hugging him.

"Look up the definition of liberal. We hug trees. We hug each other. We hug people of the same sex and want to marry each other," Moore said. "It's the other side that we need to get to hold their arms out a little bit and coochey-coo."

The success of the second annual Traverse City Film Festival, which runs from Monday to Sunday, has also won over some of Moore's political foes -- or at least sidelined them.

This year's slate features 68 films selected by Moore. Festival organizers expect over 75,000 to attend. That would mark a 50-percent gain over the inaugural event, which drew some of the controversy that has become the 52-year-old director's calling card.

In 2005, critics attempted to upstage the Traverse City film festival with a parallel event nearby intended to hammer the message that Moore was out of touch with the mainstream. Moore said the effort failed to draw crowds and fizzled.

AT WORK ON 'SICKO'

Moore says he intends the festival to be "nonpartisan," even as it takes on charged topics with films like "The Road to Guantanamo." Moore calls that film about three British men jailed without charges in the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a look at "a disgraceful moment in our history we're still living through."

Moore is mostly done shooting his own film "Sicko." The movie examines America's health care system and Moore describes it as "a comedy about 45 million people with no health care in the richest country on earth." The film is due out in 2007.

For now, he seems pleased with the outbreak of relative goodwill toward him after a depressing period when he thought he might not be able to work again in Hollywood.

Moore was booed and escorted from the Kodak Theater by security when he used his 2003 Oscar acceptance speech for documentary "Bowling for Columbine" to lash out at President George W. Bush.

"I remember going back to my hotel room that night, where they had all the pundits on post-Oscar and they were all like, 'That's the end of Michael Moore. That's the last we'll see of him.' By the end of the night, I believed it," he said.

"I thought, 'No one is going to want to work with me in this town. I just ruined their big party.' We're all supposed to ignore that the war is going on and just have a party. Well, now here we three years later and it's not just me. It's a few other people saying that we weren't told the truth."

Ok Michael, now's your chance & opportunity , it's time to expose PNAC to the Republican masses!

There is automatically a problem when a movie has to be made to counter another movie. Its a sign of desperation. The movie is filled with experts that are not "experts" in any field related to what they are talking about. A bunch of bull.

Michael Moore was actully a good director Roger & Me was a really good film then he sold us out when he Made Bowling For LIES I mean Bowling For Columbine. He made up lies and said people who own guns are monsters and he totally supported the unconstitutional isue of "gun control". The people he interviewed where totally uncredible. He interviews some black crack whore with 6 kids from Georgia then he interviews the senile Charles Hesten former leader of the NRA.

Fahrenhight 9/11 was nothing more but a documentry made up of lies to hide 9/11 truth being an inside job and expose bush insted of 9/11 he never went to the hardcore issues because he feared of being "anti-american" meaning (he has no balls)

I'll call bullshit here.

What you gave is your opinion. Now, go prove what Mr. Moore claimed is a lie. Mr. Moore has published a book backing up what he claimed in the 9/11 movie. Prove him wrong with facts.

Backing up what Scorp said, lets see you back up your claims with real, substantive evidence.
Meaning, forget the Right Wing talking points! We've seen them all! DO NOT make the mistake of thinking we're stupid and in need of your wisdom and guidance!

Proof? Or is this just an ad hom? Ill agree, most of the time it was just anecdotal evidence. But if hes just looking for people stories, and not an experts opinions, credibility isnt really an issue. Wow, now THATS an ad hom. Remember, Heston AGREED to the interview. I didnt know senility caused racism either. Odd...

This is all irrelevant banter untill we see the proof. Moore offered up his, now the burden shifts to you.

It was just a matter of time......

Popcorn.....I need some Popcorn.

So, there MMM...think the ball is in your court.

Why didnt he go after the hardcore issues of 9/11 like NORAAD standing down?

Why is he pushing the propaganda of gun control?

WTF does the KKK have to do with handguns he blows this totally out of proporation.

Heston was not a good guy to interview and not to mention Moore didnt deserve to jump all over him like he did.

hes saying gun owners are evil monsters just because of the carelessness of a few iresponible people. He blames the whoel thing on hestan when he didnt do anything wrong. Not to mention the 9/11 documentry never exposed the real issues why NORAAD was standing down WHY larry silverstien "pulled the building"

I can't believe someone missed the point of B4C and the Heston interview more than Heston did, but apartently you did.

The point of B4C is not that "guns are bad", the whole point is that there is something inherently wrong with America today that is making us kill each other in larger numbers than any other industrialized country and too many people are too quick to blame it on the availablility of guns.

That's why he points out that proportionally more people own guns in Canada, but they don't kill each other in nearly the numbers we do in the U.S.

If Heston had not gone into the interview in a defensive position to begin with he would have seen it and come out of that scene looking like a reasonable, intelligent person. Moore was not trying to ambush him, he was trying to make a point that is not too far off of what the NRA has been preaching for years. Gun don't kill people, Americans do.

As for F911, it is not incongruous with the 9-11 Truth Movement. Let's establish a few facts.

There are many people out there that will NEVER accept that an American could have pulled of 9-11 for their own gains, much less that the President would do that.

There are plenty of other sources out there for people to find 9-11 truth if that is really what they seek. If you google 9-11, 9-11 Truth shows up on the first page of results. If you google Boeing 767 9-11 truth is on the first page of results. The truth is out there.

If Moore had made Loose Change or Martial Law instead of Fahrenheit 9-11, Sony Pictures would have pulled the plug and/or it would've ended up the same type of thing as Loose Change or Martial Law. Something that gets downloaded by people who know what they are going to see before they even get done downloading but never gets seen by the wider community.

Instead Moore chose to produce a film that would address much of the motivation of why Bushco might be behind 9-11 and leaves it up to the curiosity and intellect of the viewer to connect the dots.

I know many people who started their journey down the road to 9-11 truth with the first step F911. I don't fault Moore for not going further.

That's funny. I don't remember the words "evil monsters" ever being used once in the entire show.

Proof please, or close yer mouth.

A FEW irresponsible people? Over 30,000 irresponsible people!

As for the 9/11 real issues. I think Moore prefers the facts over crazy conspiracy fantasies.


(and where did he ever "blames the whoel [sic] thing on hestan"?)

You guys are not looking at the real problems in our country

we got alot of CORRUPTION in our government compared to the Canadian government.

We have alot of GANGS in our country which are mostly Mexican,Black,White supremist, and southeast asian gangs America has a higher population then canada and is alot more culturly deverse.

When the CIA is creating gangs like MS-13 and smuggling in illegal arms to rivel gangs you wonder why we have so many problems within our country.

Don't blame that law obeying citizens blame the government and the GANGS.

Doctors have killed more people alone then guns

"conspiracy fantasies"


intresting how so? cause anything can be considerd a "conspiracy" if its not the truth.

its funny when I see these so called Liberals & Conservatives trying to cover up bushs lies

I have a really good question.


Sky, why did you dig up a 13 and half month old thread?

I dont try to cover up, i just dont fabricate things in my mind when i cant figure something out. All i ask for is some proof. Something the CT cant ever offer.

Of course you don't remember that rcorporon - but YOU actually saw the movie.

Quit spouting bullshit like this as though the two were comparable.

Doctors sometimes get people killed trying to save them.

What purpose other than killing do guns serve? Are the trigger-men trying to save the lives of their targets?

Give me a break.

Sorry to butt in here but please, the perpetuation OF misinformation needs to be called out.

PLEASE DEFINE CONSPIRACY ~ Even the 9/11 ommission cover-up committee admits that there were at least, AT LEAST 19 people involved in the actions that took place on 9/11.

QUESTION: So, how many people does a conspiracy need? So you're either basterdizing the word "CONSPIRACY" or are insinuating that only one person crashed four(?) planes, three(?) into buildings and one at Shankville on 9/11.

And you criticize those that actually acknowledge that there was a conspiracy. HA!

9/11 was a inside job if you believe the LIE created under the criminal bush administration and blocked by the Controlled media you are believeing in a conspiracy & you are a brainwashed sheep!

Let's make predictions.

How long until this freeper nutcase gets the old "ban-a-roo?"

My bet is between 7 - 10 days.

He's been posting obviously copied and pasted articles since his second post without citing a source or link, he's also been linking over and over to the same series of videos on YouTube that look like so wannaba revolutionary's video blog.

It's like all he annoying things that Spammers do, but the product is just annoying rhetoric.

I imagine he'll get tired of the people here, or un out of stuff to cut and paste and go away on his own before the 7-1o days are up.



As for the original topic... My download of this movie (I refuse to even pay $2.50 to rent propaganda) keeps hanging at 76.9%.

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!

The leftists that run the internet are trying to stop the spread of the truth.

You bastards...

Umm,

I've read this a few times and yet I have no idea WHAT you're saying.

IS IT:

• 9/11 was an inside job?
• If you believe the lie that 9/11 was an inside job...you are brainwashed?
• The lie was created by Bush and supported by the Controlled media and they are attempting to brainwash you if you belive them?
• None of the above...Too confused?

The last, too confused.
Only, can't even say none of the above, just too confused.



The ONLY thing Nintendo man brings to the forum is loud, angry ranting with little or no real focus.

Now, now, now.

He's a newbe and might just be s bit misunderstood.

There as of yet has not been anything to misunderstand.
Nothing to understand either!



I'm asking, and hoping for proof otherwise.
But I have my doubts.

I'll define it for you better

if you believe in the official "story" you are believeing in A conspiracy

More copy paste.
You are a fraud.






BTW, not one member of this forum believes the "official Story"!
Sheesh, get your head out and start paying attention.

so you accuse our founding fathers of lying because much I have posted was from them funny how you so called "liberals" side with the communist and gang up on the libertarian. Typical profile of a neo-liberal ban him ban him ban him LYNCH him if he does not agree with you. Call him a conspiracy nut when he lays down the facts.

here is some facts for you liberal sheep in neo-con wolve clothing

ABOUT IGNORANCE, TRUTH AND EDUCATION...

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth. And that is the truth." -- Anonymous

"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." -- James Madison (Letter to W.T. Barry, August 4, 1822)

(I guess James Madisan is a liar) /sarcasim off

"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are." -- H.L. Mencken, writing in Smart Set magazine, December 1919

"Not to know what happened before means to remain forever a child” -- Marcus T. Cicero (106-43 BC)

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

(I guess Thomas Jefferson is an anti american) Thomas that jerk hes telling a LIE if he was a member of this forum we should ban him too!

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves, and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Prejudices, it is well known, are most difficult to eradicate from the heart whose soil has never been loosened or fertilized by education; they grow there, firm as weeds among stones." -- Charlotte Bronte, 1816-1855

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it." -- Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

"The only new thing in this world is the history you do not know" -- President Harry S. Truman

Quoting others out of context, and many years removed, does not prove your point. I have not seen you back up even ONE statement with a fact, save the "facts" from your conspiracy-theory websites. I notice you have a very clever tactic. If someone does not acknowledge your statements as fact, they TOO must be part of the conspiracy. No journalists have broken the story, because they're part of the media machine that's part of the conpiracy. No politicians will admit to the charges you level, because THEY are part of the conspiracy.

Your thinking is on the same level with the judges of a witch trial. The technical term for this in Psychological circles is a "self-reinforcing delusion." You, my friend, are delusional.

wheres your evidence there out of context? you are a hypocrite you make lies against me but don't back up your claims funny how you so called liberals side with the wacky greens and the marxist/communist. This must be beat up the libertarian day I guess.

You are the one making the extraordinary claim, not me. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

I'm done with you Matt. Whether you are banned or not, you're on my ignore list, because you are simply a waste of my time, and it pisses me off that you've hijacked the threads of others so repeatedly.

you are saying my quotes are out of context wheres YOUR PROOF?

good put me on ignore im tired of hearing you whineing about you wanting me banned.

He has been on mine for about three days now. It is a vast improvement.

OK,

I understand what you mean. So are you saying that one person was responsible for hijacking all four(?) planes, crashing them into three(?) buildings, one at the Pentagon and the other two hitting the WTC causing the entire destruction of the WTC I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, and the fourth(?) plane crashing at Shanksville? One person did all that? Killed 3000 people by his/her/itself? Cause the "official" story lists at least 19 people.

Now some argue about the true identities of the hijackers and what their real roles were. Some even argue the the WTC crumbled down due to a combination of explosives and Thermate. Some say that the Pentagon wasn't hit by a 767, but instead a drone. Some even speculate that for ALL this destruction needed an inside helping hand.

However, by definition, a conspiracy requires more than person who together makes an agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. A conspiracy theory is a theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.

I don't need to explain that there were more than one person involved in the acts the took place on 9/11. I just call into question the "OFFICIAL" story as there are huge, HUGE gaps in the logic used to justify it as being the "OFFICIAL" one true story.

We already know that the DOD and the Pentagon lied to cover facts. The 9/11 commission admits to that much. They FAILED at creating any, ANY form of accountability. QUESTION: What were they afraid of revealing that caused them to choose to lie and create a cover up? Suspicious, NO???

I don't care if you are Libertarian or what ever.
I do care that you are ignorant. You are so ignorant, you don't even know that you don't know!
To me that's not just ignorant, it's stupid!


Nintendo man,

You are a fraud, and you really outta be embarrassed, but you don't yet know enough to BE embarrassed!

EVERY day is a "beat up the libertarian" day!

If it isn't - it oughta be!!

libertarianism in one lesson

QUESTION: What are we when we become what we seek to abolish?

We hate the mongering, yet we monger. We hate the partisan tactics yet resort to our own partisanship. We despise the generalizations lumped upon demographic groups, yet we readily throw others onto a heap of those we've demonized. What gives?

I'm not going to bat for minuteman Matt specifically, but I think some people are getting a bit too itchy for blood. My self, I'll call it like I see it and see people itching for blood. WHY???

Just because he says some things that challenge your point of view?

Sorry, but that's a lame excuse to go for the main artery on the guy. If you can't civilly accept a challenge to your point of view, what good is having a point of view if the only way of debating it is to resort to adolescent rants on the person? That reveals more about you than it does about the person you seek to destroy/discredit.

If you doubt me, check out the way I've managed to remain civil and still debate his point of view while maintaining dignity for BOTH he and I.

Conquer and destroy, a page out of the Fascist play book. Give the people a reason to distrust their neighbor and they will complete the division themselves.


Have some people forgot the fact that we ALL come from different political backgrounds? Aren't we all here for the same reason? The face of Fascism giving rise within a once Free and Democratic Nation. Collectively we can engage ideas and thoughts and possibly, wishfully, put a stop to the madness OF this once great nation.

If anyone happens to be a plant or troll, they'll show their colors soon enough. Tj has said as much. But either I have missed something or I drive a different band wagon because I see minuteman as someone who is attempting to rationalize his reality that he now sees as destroyed and disillusioned by the corrupt GOP controlled Government. Why can't we help him? Instead of hindering him?

Thanks for listening. [/RANT]