story here
f*ck THE TROOPS
A Beastly Opinion
By Ian Murphy
So, 4000 rubes are dead. Cry me the Tigris. Another 30,000 have been seriously wounded. Boo f*cking hoo. They got what they asked for—and cool robotic limbs, too.
Likely, just reading the above paragraph made you uncomfortable. But why?
The benevolence of America’s “troops” is sacrosanct. Questioning their rectitude simply isn’t done. It’s the forbidden zone. We may rail against this tragic war, but our soldiers are lauded by all as saints. Why? They volunteered to partake in this savage idiocy, and for this they deserve our utmost respect? I think not.
The nearly two-thirds of us who know this war is bullsh*t need to stop sucking off the troops. They get enough action raping female soldiers and sodomizing Iraqi detainees. The political left is intent on “supporting” the troops by bringing them home, which is a good thing. But after rightly denouncing the administration’s lies and condemning this awful war, relatively sensible pundits—like Keith Olbermann—turn around and lovingly praise the soldiers’ brave service to the country. Why?
What service are they providing? I don’t remember ordering 300,000 dead Iraqis—although I was doing a lot of heavy narcotics back in ‘03. Our soldiers are not providing a service to the country, they’re providing a service to a criminal administration and their oil company cronies. When a mafia don orders a hit, is the assassin absolved of personal responsibility when it’s carried out? Of course not. What if the hit man was fooled into service? We’d all say, “Tough sh*t, you dumb Guido,” then lock him up and throw away the key.
As a society, we need to discard our blind deference to military service. There’s nothing admirable about volunteering to murder people. There’s nothing admirable about being rooked by obvious propaganda. There’s nothing admirable about doing what you’re told if what you’re told to do is terrible.
We all learned recently that the Bush administration instituted its policy of global torture during quaint White House meetings. And we already know this war was started with lies. Shame on them. But what about the people who physically carry out these atrocities? We’ve seen bad apples punished and CEO despots walk free, but all verbal and written denouncement is focused on our leaders. Surely, they deserve that and more—decapitation, really. But why can’t we be critical of the people who have actually tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens? We deride private contractors like Blackwater for similar conduct—why are the troops blameless?
Take John McCain, or “McNasty,” as they called him in high school. While the conventional wisdom says that Obama gets a pass from the media, McCain is clearly the least scrutinized presidential candidate. He diddles lobbyists, sings about bombing Iran and doesn’t know Shiite from Shinola, yet he remains unscathed, cloaked in his Vietnam “hero” legend.
Again, what is heroic about involving one’s self in a foolish war, being a sh*tty pilot or getting tortured? Yeah, it must have sucked, but getting your arse kicked every day for five years doesn’t make you a hero—it makes you a Bad News Bear.
Here’s where America’s military lust becomes a true perversion. If we truly valued military prowess, John McCain would be viewed as a failure. But duty alone is enough to inspire our gratitude. Hence the left’s tendency to obligatorily praise the troops while decrying the sum of their actions. Good thing, too, because this war is unwinnable.
George Washington warned that the biggest threat to the young United States was in keeping and deploying standing armies. An overextended military is a drain on any nation—eventually it will break. It also pisses off the people your army is standing on. We’ll never heed this warning and break the cycle of violence, so long as military service is so reflexively praised.
People want to be respected. And in a country with an abysmal education system and disappearing economic opportunities, they seek respect wherever they can find it—as street corner toughs or as government-sanctioned thugs. It beats McDonald’s. But this kind of victim-of-circumstance-sympathy for the troops turns them into automatons, neither deserving of praise or damnation. Disregarding the Stop Loss back door draft travesty, they had a choice.
We’re a squeamish people; we eschew heated debates and, in principle, strive for political correctness when arguing with those who hold contrary views. The left does anyway; the right makes no such pretense. That’s one of the reasons liberals have taken such a beating in the last few decades.
As plainly stupid as religious belief or participating in immoral and illegal wars may be, the castrated left can only argue against these things by appealing to reason. In America, that fails every time. We respond best to partisan venom and ad hominem attacks.
The right has no problem painting their opponents as cowards or godless heathens, but liberals—instead of sticking to the merits of their arguments—fight those accusations by leaning right, praising god and guns, and pandering to the people who cling to them. The left has taken to appeasing bullies as their only course to victory. And that’s no victory at all.
Liberals need to start calling a moron a moron—and openly mocking that moron if his positions or actions are indefensible. Just as Limbaugh or Hannity insults the left, tilting the battlefield so liberals are left scrounging for their patriotic bona fides, the left must begin attacking stupidity whether in the form of religious nonsense, “free market” capitalism or military worship.
Instead of blowing the troops every chance we get, to prove our patriotism and insulate ourselves against attacks from the right, liberals should grow a pair and start dishing the damnation.
How despicable must a military campaign be before Americans turn on their beloved troops? After chiding the “War on Toddlers” as fool-headed and pointlessly barbaric, would Keith Olbermann still thank the troops for their service? After the “Great Grandmother Slaughter of 2010,” will the press remove the fat military cock from its mouth? Following “Operation Murder Fluffy Kittens,” will the left finally nix the “honored service” crap? No. No, they won’t.
Condemning the “troops”—a term coined during the Gulf War—is almost unthinkable. And it won’t win you any awards. “Troops” are a monolithic entity, a cohesive group of pride-inspiring order-takers. Whereas an individual soldier is accountable for his or her actions, the “troops” are too abstract to blame. For Americans, there are only bad apples, never bad orchards.
But what kind of world would we rather live in: one where fools are admired for being fooled and murderers are extolled for murdering, or one where we have the capacity to step back and say, “I don’t care who told you to do what and why; you’re still an asshole!” Personally, I’d rather live in a world where people who act like retards are treated like retards: executed in Texas.
Americans fear the truth. It’s the slipperiest slope of all. Once we start extending responsibility beyond those who gave orders to those who took them, it won’t be long before we’re blaming ourselves. And we can’t have that.
Well, guess what, kids? The Iraq debacle is a pointless bloodbath—and every time you applaud those who “bravely” fill that tub, you’re soaking in it.
Full Version: f*ck THE TROOPS: A Beastly Opinion
OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards > Political Discussion forums > Politics In General
I hate it when idiots like this open their mouths.
I hate it that I won't ever get that 10 minutes it took to read that back.
What a load of crap.
What a load of crap.
QUOTE (POAC @ Sunday, 4 May 2008, 10:47 am) 
I hate it when idiots like this open their mouths.
And this.....?
QUOTE
UNIVERSAL SOLDIER
Buffy Sainte-Marie
© Caleb Music-ASCAP
I wrote "Universal Soldier" in the basement of The Purple Onion coffee house in Toronto in the early sixties. It's about individual responsibility for war and how the old feudal thinking kills us all. Donovan had a hit with it in 1965.
Buffy Sainte-Marie
© Caleb Music-ASCAP
I wrote "Universal Soldier" in the basement of The Purple Onion coffee house in Toronto in the early sixties. It's about individual responsibility for war and how the old feudal thinking kills us all. Donovan had a hit with it in 1965.
QUOTE
He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years
He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you
And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way
And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls
But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years
He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you
And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way
And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls
But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.
I'm not gonna blame the soldier, people just like you and me and our children, for volumteering to do what my country has asked them to do.
I will however, blame the leaders of my country for asking them to do what they are doing, and for the reasons they are doing them.
It is not the soldiers fault. That's what soldiers do, and I for one do indeed want them around.
If there is blame, and certainly there is plenty, then blame those who misuse and abuse the tools of war.
I will however, blame the leaders of my country for asking them to do what they are doing, and for the reasons they are doing them.
It is not the soldiers fault. That's what soldiers do, and I for one do indeed want them around.
If there is blame, and certainly there is plenty, then blame those who misuse and abuse the tools of war.
The Sheepdogs
Most humans truly are like sheep
Wanting nothing more than peace to keep
To graze, grow fat and raise their young,
Sweet taste of clover on the tongue.
Their lives serene upon Life’s farm,
They sense no threat nor fear no harm.
On verdant meadows, they forage free
With naught to fear, with naught to flee.
They pay their sheepdogs little heed
For there is no threat; there is no need.
To the flock, sheepdog’s are mysteries,
Roaming watchful round the peripheries.
These fang-toothed creatures bark, they roar
With the fetid reek of the carnivore,
Too like the wolf of legends told,
To be amongst our docile fold.
Who needs sheepdogs? What good are they?
They have no use, not in this day.
Lock them away, out of our sight
We have no need of their fierce might.
But sudden in their midst a beast
Has come to kill, has come to feast
The wolves attack; they give no warning
Upon that calm September morning
They slash and kill with frenzied glee
Their passive helpless enemy
Who had no clue the wolves were there
Far roaming from their Eastern lair.
Then from the carnage, from the rout,
Comes the cry, “Turn the sheepdogs out!”
Thus is our nature but too our plight
To keep our dogs on leashes tight
And live a life of illusive bliss
Hearing not the beast, his growl, his hiss.
Until he has us by the throat,
We pay no heed; we take no note.
Not until he strikes us at our core
Will we unleash the Dogs of War
Only having felt the wolf pack’s wrath
Do we loose the sheepdogs on its path.
And the wolves will learn what we’ve shown before;
We love our sheep, we Dogs of War.
Russ Vaughn
2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
101st Airborne Division
Vietnam 65-66
QUOTE
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.
The song is one of my favorites from that period and blames not just soldiers, but society for war. It doesn't blame Americans, but is universal in its condemnation. Unfortunately, the dogs of war are not kept on tight leashes. As for the soldiers culpability for the killing, it's a moral question that I'm conflicted about at sixty-two, and one I could never have had the depth to ponder in my twenties. During the Vietnam War there were some who had the courage to say no,
out of principle and not self-interest. Others fought and died with equal high-mindedness and sense of duty. I envy both groups their moral clarity and assurance. I see Universal Soldier as an ideal to be aspired to, the way things might be, Dogs of War as a well intentioned rationilazation for the way things are.
I cannot condemn the article outright, as it raises many salient points. Individual members of a monstrous system must recognize their participation in monstrous acts, and grapple with the monsters inside of them. Any citizen of the United States ought to be capable of that, for every time we buy clothing manufactured in Southeast Asia or Central America, every time we buy a ticket to movie produced by one of the media giants, every time we vote for almost any politician at the national level, we participate in a monstrous system that brings routine misery to millions worldwide, or is at least complicit in their misery.
It does seem bizarre to condemn executions but praise the executioners, or to condemn a war but laud the warriors. This becomes even more difficult when we consider that the US military has been guilty of atrocities, from the murder of innocents to the torture of detainees to the sexual abuse of its own members. But the author perhaps misses some fundamental truths about the war, our military, and our society in general.
In general, people do not sign up for the military to be murderers. Indeed, in conventional warfare among willing combatants, it is inappropriate to call the killing murder. Most young people who sign up for the military do so out of economic interest, or out of a (perhaps misguided) sense of patriotism. Countless young soldiers describe 9/11 as a turning point in their lives, when they felt compelled to defend their country and bring the men responsible to justice. The urge is understandable. Most of these young men were unaware that the United States has skeletons in its closet worth a hundred 9/11's, but again, this is perhaps excusable. Indeed, domestically, the US is a reasonably open, liberal society. People have tremendous freedoms, economic, political, and religious. In terms of its foreign policy, however, the US is a supporter of thugs, tyrants, and exploiters antithetical to the values most young soldiers believe they are defending.
When the young soldier enters boot camp, he is exposed to a new world. In this world, reality is black and white, an ultimately grim. There is no room for questioning in this world. There is no past; there is no future. There is only duty to the flag, and questioning authority or motive is a luxury afforded to others. The military's training techniques could accurately be called "brainwashing" in the sense that it seeks to replace old values with blind patriotism, and usually includes high doses of religious fervor, bloodthirst, and misogyny. Anti-war movies like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket lose their meaning and just add to the inevitable drumbeat of war. Views that reinforce the young soldier's growing sense of patriotism are readily available. Views that contradict it are minimized and ridiculed.
When the time for war actually comes, one of two things usually happens. Either the soldier becomes disillusioned and realizes that he has been misled into a nightmarish world, or he forces his new ideology into his mind to block the logical disconnects between hating what he is doing and obeying what duty dictates. Soldiers are vastly divided on their views. Enlisted men and officers alike vary from die-hard conservatives to reflective liberals, and from vociferous supporters of aggression to stridently antiwar figures. But all of them need to believe, need to retain at some level, that they are at least attempting to be forces for good in the world. Some of them develop a might-makes-right and ends-justify-the-means view of this good, and they deserve to be pitied just as much as condemned. The system they work for is monstrous, and that is the cardinal reason they have become monsters.
It is not the military, but militarism, that is to blame. Certainly, some soldiers are little more than thugs who are being used in service of the government. Many are simply trying to do good and are misinformed. Many others have become aware of the ideology they have become subjugated to, and are actively trying to break away from it--these men and women grapple with profound psychological issues that are seldom addressed. Only when we really confront militarism will we really get down to the root of the evils the US has proliferated even while protecting "democracy" and freedom at home.
It does seem bizarre to condemn executions but praise the executioners, or to condemn a war but laud the warriors. This becomes even more difficult when we consider that the US military has been guilty of atrocities, from the murder of innocents to the torture of detainees to the sexual abuse of its own members. But the author perhaps misses some fundamental truths about the war, our military, and our society in general.
In general, people do not sign up for the military to be murderers. Indeed, in conventional warfare among willing combatants, it is inappropriate to call the killing murder. Most young people who sign up for the military do so out of economic interest, or out of a (perhaps misguided) sense of patriotism. Countless young soldiers describe 9/11 as a turning point in their lives, when they felt compelled to defend their country and bring the men responsible to justice. The urge is understandable. Most of these young men were unaware that the United States has skeletons in its closet worth a hundred 9/11's, but again, this is perhaps excusable. Indeed, domestically, the US is a reasonably open, liberal society. People have tremendous freedoms, economic, political, and religious. In terms of its foreign policy, however, the US is a supporter of thugs, tyrants, and exploiters antithetical to the values most young soldiers believe they are defending.
When the young soldier enters boot camp, he is exposed to a new world. In this world, reality is black and white, an ultimately grim. There is no room for questioning in this world. There is no past; there is no future. There is only duty to the flag, and questioning authority or motive is a luxury afforded to others. The military's training techniques could accurately be called "brainwashing" in the sense that it seeks to replace old values with blind patriotism, and usually includes high doses of religious fervor, bloodthirst, and misogyny. Anti-war movies like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket lose their meaning and just add to the inevitable drumbeat of war. Views that reinforce the young soldier's growing sense of patriotism are readily available. Views that contradict it are minimized and ridiculed.
When the time for war actually comes, one of two things usually happens. Either the soldier becomes disillusioned and realizes that he has been misled into a nightmarish world, or he forces his new ideology into his mind to block the logical disconnects between hating what he is doing and obeying what duty dictates. Soldiers are vastly divided on their views. Enlisted men and officers alike vary from die-hard conservatives to reflective liberals, and from vociferous supporters of aggression to stridently antiwar figures. But all of them need to believe, need to retain at some level, that they are at least attempting to be forces for good in the world. Some of them develop a might-makes-right and ends-justify-the-means view of this good, and they deserve to be pitied just as much as condemned. The system they work for is monstrous, and that is the cardinal reason they have become monsters.
It is not the military, but militarism, that is to blame. Certainly, some soldiers are little more than thugs who are being used in service of the government. Many are simply trying to do good and are misinformed. Many others have become aware of the ideology they have become subjugated to, and are actively trying to break away from it--these men and women grapple with profound psychological issues that are seldom addressed. Only when we really confront militarism will we really get down to the root of the evils the US has proliferated even while protecting "democracy" and freedom at home.
And the thread begins...
This is what I was hoping for - thank you soon2be and Libertas.
We need to examine what we truely believe in as a culture. I don't want our ctizens to die, but I don'twant anyone else's to, either.
War = Death.
come on people, now -
smile on your brother!
everybody get together, try to love one another, RIGHT NOW!
This is what I was hoping for - thank you soon2be and Libertas.
We need to examine what we truely believe in as a culture. I don't want our ctizens to die, but I don'twant anyone else's to, either.
War = Death.
come on people, now -
smile on your brother!
everybody get together, try to love one another, RIGHT NOW!
QUOTE (seuss @ Sunday, 4 May 2008, 5:11 pm)
And the thread begins...
This is what I was hoping for - thank you soon2be and Libertas.
We need to examine what we truely believe in as a culture. I don't want our ctizens to die, but I don'twant anyone else's to, either.
War = Death.
come on people, now -
smile on your brother!
everybody get together, try to love one another, RIGHT NOW!
This is what I was hoping for - thank you soon2be and Libertas.
We need to examine what we truely believe in as a culture. I don't want our ctizens to die, but I don'twant anyone else's to, either.
War = Death.
come on people, now -
smile on your brother!
everybody get together, try to love one another, RIGHT NOW!
Your welcome.
The article has some validity, but it's incorrect to condemn soldiers without also condemning every other person who hasn't quit their jobs and refused to pay taxes, because contributing to the economy is what drives the war machine forward. If you want to assign personal responsibility to the soldiers for what they do, then you need to assign responsibility to everyone. Blame every single cog in the machine, not just the tip of the spear.
QUOTE (Libertas @ Sunday, 4 May 2008, 7:58 pm)
I cannot condemn the article outright, as it raises many salient points. Individual members of a monstrous system must recognize their participation in monstrous acts, and grapple with the monsters inside of them. Any citizen of the United States ought to be capable of that, for every time we buy clothing manufactured in Southeast Asia or Central America, every time we buy a ticket to movie produced by one of the media giants, every time we vote for almost any politician at the national level, we participate in a monstrous system that brings routine misery to millions worldwide, or is at least complicit in their misery.
It does seem bizarre to condemn executions but praise the executioners, or to condemn a war but laud the warriors. This becomes even more difficult when we consider that the US military has been guilty of atrocities, from the murder of innocents to the torture of detainees to the sexual abuse of its own members. But the author perhaps misses some fundamental truths about the war, our military, and our society in general.
In general, people do not sign up for the military to be murderers. Indeed, in conventional warfare among willing combatants, it is inappropriate to call the killing murder. Most young people who sign up for the military do so out of economic interest, or out of a (perhaps misguided) sense of patriotism. Countless young soldiers describe 9/11 as a turning point in their lives, when they felt compelled to defend their country and bring the men responsible to justice. The urge is understandable. Most of these young men were unaware that the United States has skeletons in its closet worth a hundred 9/11's, but again, this is perhaps excusable. Indeed, domestically, the US is a reasonably open, liberal society. People have tremendous freedoms, economic, political, and religious. In terms of its foreign policy, however, the US is a supporter of thugs, tyrants, and exploiters antithetical to the values most young soldiers believe they are defending.
When the young soldier enters boot camp, he is exposed to a new world. In this world, reality is black and white, an ultimately grim. There is no room for questioning in this world. There is no past; there is no future. There is only duty to the flag, and questioning authority or motive is a luxury afforded to others. The military's training techniques could accurately be called "brainwashing" in the sense that it seeks to replace old values with blind patriotism, and usually includes high doses of religious fervor, bloodthirst, and misogyny. Anti-war movies like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket lose their meaning and just add to the inevitable drumbeat of war. Views that reinforce the young soldier's growing sense of patriotism are readily available. Views that contradict it are minimized and ridiculed.
When the time for war actually comes, one of two things usually happens. Either the soldier becomes disillusioned and realizes that he has been misled into a nightmarish world, or he forces his new ideology into his mind to block the logical disconnects between hating what he is doing and obeying what duty dictates. Soldiers are vastly divided on their views. Enlisted men and officers alike vary from die-hard conservatives to reflective liberals, and from vociferous supporters of aggression to stridently antiwar figures. But all of them need to believe, need to retain at some level, that they are at least attempting to be forces for good in the world. Some of them develop a might-makes-right and ends-justify-the-means view of this good, and they deserve to be pitied just as much as condemned. The system they work for is monstrous, and that is the cardinal reason they have become monsters.
It is not the military, but militarism, that is to blame. Certainly, some soldiers are little more than thugs who are being used in service of the government. Many are simply trying to do good and are misinformed. Many others have become aware of the ideology they have become subjugated to, and are actively trying to break away from it--these men and women grapple with profound psychological issues that are seldom addressed. Only when we really confront militarism will we really get down to the root of the evils the US has proliferated even while protecting "democracy" and freedom at home.
It does seem bizarre to condemn executions but praise the executioners, or to condemn a war but laud the warriors. This becomes even more difficult when we consider that the US military has been guilty of atrocities, from the murder of innocents to the torture of detainees to the sexual abuse of its own members. But the author perhaps misses some fundamental truths about the war, our military, and our society in general.
In general, people do not sign up for the military to be murderers. Indeed, in conventional warfare among willing combatants, it is inappropriate to call the killing murder. Most young people who sign up for the military do so out of economic interest, or out of a (perhaps misguided) sense of patriotism. Countless young soldiers describe 9/11 as a turning point in their lives, when they felt compelled to defend their country and bring the men responsible to justice. The urge is understandable. Most of these young men were unaware that the United States has skeletons in its closet worth a hundred 9/11's, but again, this is perhaps excusable. Indeed, domestically, the US is a reasonably open, liberal society. People have tremendous freedoms, economic, political, and religious. In terms of its foreign policy, however, the US is a supporter of thugs, tyrants, and exploiters antithetical to the values most young soldiers believe they are defending.
When the young soldier enters boot camp, he is exposed to a new world. In this world, reality is black and white, an ultimately grim. There is no room for questioning in this world. There is no past; there is no future. There is only duty to the flag, and questioning authority or motive is a luxury afforded to others. The military's training techniques could accurately be called "brainwashing" in the sense that it seeks to replace old values with blind patriotism, and usually includes high doses of religious fervor, bloodthirst, and misogyny. Anti-war movies like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket lose their meaning and just add to the inevitable drumbeat of war. Views that reinforce the young soldier's growing sense of patriotism are readily available. Views that contradict it are minimized and ridiculed.
When the time for war actually comes, one of two things usually happens. Either the soldier becomes disillusioned and realizes that he has been misled into a nightmarish world, or he forces his new ideology into his mind to block the logical disconnects between hating what he is doing and obeying what duty dictates. Soldiers are vastly divided on their views. Enlisted men and officers alike vary from die-hard conservatives to reflective liberals, and from vociferous supporters of aggression to stridently antiwar figures. But all of them need to believe, need to retain at some level, that they are at least attempting to be forces for good in the world. Some of them develop a might-makes-right and ends-justify-the-means view of this good, and they deserve to be pitied just as much as condemned. The system they work for is monstrous, and that is the cardinal reason they have become monsters.
It is not the military, but militarism, that is to blame. Certainly, some soldiers are little more than thugs who are being used in service of the government. Many are simply trying to do good and are misinformed. Many others have become aware of the ideology they have become subjugated to, and are actively trying to break away from it--these men and women grapple with profound psychological issues that are seldom addressed. Only when we really confront militarism will we really get down to the root of the evils the US has proliferated even while protecting "democracy" and freedom at home.
Lib, you hit every nail squarely on the head. This is the post I wanted to, but would have struggled to, make.
I grew up in a nation whose empire had crumbled to dust (though many were loath to admit it). I was well aware of the nature of the atrocities that had been committed in the name of the Great British Empire, and I was well aware of the reign of the ruling elite and of the disparity of wealth and life chances, that I was bottom of the heap not by accident of birth, but by design of the ruling classes.
There was no way ever that I would have signed up to support such a system, to fight for 'queen and country'. But I was lucky. I had a mother who saw clearly and taught well, allowing her children access to the full story and room to make of it what we would.
The American Empire has yet to crumble, and it's true nature has yet to be revealed to most. Give it time.
QUOTE
He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years
He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you
And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way
And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls
But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years
He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you
And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way
And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls
But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on
He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.
I love this! Thanks Sooner.
One more...
QUOTE
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
QUOTE (happymisanthropy @ Sunday, 4 May 2008, 7:04 pm)
The article has some validity, but it's incorrect to condemn soldiers without also condemning every other person who hasn't quit their jobs and refused to pay taxes, because contributing to the economy is what drives the war machine forward. If you want to assign personal responsibility to the soldiers for what they do, then you need to assign responsibility to everyone. Blame every single cog in the machine, not just the tip of the spear.
Well said. Thank you.
QUOTE (soon2b @ Sunday, 4 May 2008, 2:04 pm)
And this.....?
I'd say the lyrics reflect a compassionate and popular sentiment of the time in which it was written. The original post displayed an unfortunate lack of compassion that seems indicative of this era.
QUOTE (POAC @ Monday, 5 May 2008, 8:33 am)
I'd say the lyrics reflect a compassionate and popular sentiment of the time in which it was written. The original post displayed an unfortunate lack of compassion that seems indicative of this era.
Indeed, true compassion and empathy isn't selective or choose sides.
QUOTE (POAC @ Monday, 5 May 2008, 10:33 am)
I'd say the lyrics reflect a compassionate and popular sentiment of the time in which it was written. The original post displayed an unfortunate lack of compassion that seems indicative of this era.
I'd agree, generally. The original post tended to demonize soldiers and the song holds us all accountable. Since both tend towards the decidely unpopular subject of individual accountability I thought it was a good idea to view the ideas broached in the post thru a softer lens and to consider a model of accountability that includes soldiers. To call the song a reflection of popular sentiment of the times seems to trivialize it as anachronistic, but as your resident geezer I think it's as timely today as when it was written in the early sixties when our involvement in Vietnam was minimal. When the war, and to a lesser degree the song, came to public awareness it was probably as controversial as the post that began this thread. To some young folkies it was just another groovy Donovan song by the time he recorded it. It's sentiments were hardly universally popular. Jan and Dean (Beach Boy spin-offs popular for their "car songs" of the day) did a cover expressing the opposite view called Universal Coward.
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