I haven't yet looked a the board today, which is probably good as it means I can respond to you with what's actually been on my mind. Going through a whole ream of 'discussion' between you and Jubal would no doubt taint that. I came here today with the intention of stepping into this fray in a more decisive manner than previously.

OK, let me speak from the heart:
I have no idea why Jubal has taken against you the way he has, but I don't think he's being fair. You're not some sort of hateful bogie-man, you're contributions to this board have been welcome and have done nothing but add to our pool of awareness and understanding here.

Jubal, outside of this pretty nasty clash, is actually one of the most surprising people I've come across in my life.
I have seen him make the most honest and bravest of confessions, I have seen the results of his soul-searching and I have been floored by his courage. - the man is abrasive, arrogant, condescending and sarcastic and he has my utmost respect. If Jubal believes himself to be wrong he will say so 100%of the time.

But you deserve just as much respect. You came here to join a community and to share of yourself and you should be allowed to do that.
I sincerely hope you get the opportunity to do that and I'll do what I can to make tat happen.

I've decided I'm going to copy this and paste it on the board because... well, because it might help.
I hope it does.

Peace.

Well Kate, I was sent an invite to join this Board. I do participate in others, and I don't really fit into the mold of either conservative or progressive.

Kate, I'm somewhat of a psychological fluke. My interests are extremely varied and have been since I was a kid. I enjoy learning for the sake of learning. Its been my life-long hobby. When other kids were playing, I had my nose in a book or toddled down to the Museum of Natural History, etc. Boards such as these are really an extention of that.

Going into my own thinking processes, uncovering beliefs that aren't reality-based, etc. is just anothr part of a learning process for me which is why I always enjoy reading Ren's postings in various Boards. There was a poster, Howard, on another Board whose thinking processes astounded me. His insights into the workings of the human mind blew me over....and I was a psychology major!

'Tis an ongoing goal to see things as they are rather than how I might wish them to be, or think them to be. In part, that is how one learns. In part, that is what led me from being a millionaire in my earlier years to being a poverty-sticken monk in my later years. And that has nothing to do with some lofty goal or religious ideal of "self-sacrifice". There is no sacrifice. It's a learning process for me.

Some Boards are fairly tolerant of my postings, others aren't. That's just the way it is. Being attacked as somehow being a racist when my own family has origins within Native American cultures I find rather abhorrant. My grandmother was Native American and was the person who was closer to me than any other member of my family. I suppose I interpret this sort of thing as an attack on my relationship with her....even though it isn't.

My involvement with"primitive" tribes in Kenya, if anything, have revealed a superiority of "primitive" culture, not an inferior one. "If I let my neighbor starve so I may live longer, what good am I?" A remark of a "primitive" man.

I don't like my posts taken out of context. I don't like things made up with quote marks placed around them and being assigned to me. This hasn't been a forum in which I can learn much of anything. It certainly hasn't been one in which I can contribute anything, either.

People have agendas, often not even known to themselves, and assume everyone else is the same way. It's rather an automatic response to interpret other peoples remarks in this manner. The search for the underlying motive, for the underlying agenda is automatic. "What does that person mean"? It's neither good nor bad, It's just the way the human mind tends to function.

My agenda, if you can consider it one, is to attempt to not have one other than to see how things actually function rather than to interpret according my own beliefs, hidden or known. It's how one learns. If that isn't an acceptable premise upon which to operate, then I don't belong here.

There are Boards where this sort of thing takes place between individuals, and all parties involved grow, expand their thinking processes and their knowledge. So far, I haven't found this to be the case here. If it remains this way for me, I'll simply pack my bags and move on to other Boards where this sort of thing is effectively promoted.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

Ahem.... sorry, it's Karen, not Kate.

I have to say that I've learned very much from the people on this board, not least Jubal. I've learned lessons in humility from him that... humbled me.

I fear I have to leave it there and hope that you do find reasons to stay, see that each of us brings something of value to this place, that even you can learn from.

Peace.

Sorry Karen.

I may pop in from time to time to observe the Board, and I won't be posting after this. My interests are dialogue and discussion, not defense against slurs, barbs and mis-quotes. Mis-direction and sabotaging of threads doesn't appeal to me either. I don't associate with people who do that sort of thing in my personal life, and Blogs are extentions of that. There are just too many other Boards where discussion and mutual respect are actively encouraged. Pleasant, comfortable learning experiences are what appeal to me. Twisting of ideas accomplishes nothing of value. We should have learned that from Karl Rove.

I do want to thank those who have sent me personal messages of support.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

I'm glad you're here. I'd like to apologize.

I was wrong.

For some reason, your posting style rubbed me the wrong way, and I overreacted badly. I was also genuinely irked at some of the things you said, and some of them touched on, but were not aimed at, racial sensitivities. It was wrong of me to call you a racist. At the very worst, there are some things you may not be aware of, and the truth is that we probably just disagree on some issues.

That's not an excuse, just an explanation.

I have been thinking it over carefully, and I have realized I had no good reason to attack you as I did. It reflects badly upon me, and I will very sincerely try to do better in the future. If you choose to continue to post here, if we disagree, I will address your ideas, not you as a person.

I thought about sending you a private message, but I decided that because I wronged you publicly, justice demands that I admit my fault publicly.

I'm very sorry.

We all seem to have things that trigger responses that are emotional rather than reasoned. It's the human condition. That's often the underlying problems in divorce. Unintentional emotionally triggered responses that escalate. That seems to be the case here.

Perhaps we can both grow from that.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

Thank you both! This means a lot to me, and says a lot about both of you!

Now, if you'll excuse me I have to find out where this smell of burning plastic is coming from!

Edit: House fire in the next street I think

As I was saying...

Awesome thread. Thanks Karen, and "you guys"!


Damn, I think I'm gonna cry!

Karen, I feel I must commend you for your initiative as the peace maker. It's a rare quality.

I only started the ball rolling, Ren, Poly and Jubal did the rest.
But thank you!

If you hadn't done anything, I'd be real surprised if anything would have been changed to resolve the issue. I think you initiated something that changed the environment. It's a karmic thing. I don't know what else will come of it, but it could potentially have other effects in board relationships to do this kind of thing.

Viva Karen!
not just here, but everywhere!
Why aren't you running for queen?

Time will tell. Thank you Ren.



And you Suess.
They wont let me be queen - not enough German blood or something..?
TJ, being descended from the Knights Templar (sp?) gets automatic queendom rights.