http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/2...1981/657/461055

Freedom Rider: Democrats Target Kucinich for Defeat w/poll
by rjones2818
Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 04:19:20 AM PST
Via Blackagendareport.com and by BAR editor and senior columnist Margaret Kimberley.

It's an interesting look at what's going on with his re-nomination campaign in OH-10.

rjones2818's diary :: ::
In his presidential campaigns in 2004 and 2008, Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich told Democrats a brutal truth. Party orthodoxy is a disaster, a series of lies that must no longer be accepted. While his opponents, Obama, Clinton and Edwards, made it clear they weren’t serious about ending the occupation of Iraq, Kucinich presented a plan to do just that. When they made the case for leaving a failed for-profit health care system intact, Kucinich said that non-profit universal care was possible. He co-sponsored legislation calling for impeachment hearings against Vice President Cheney and President Bush while leadership declared the criminals should go free.
It's fascinating that one of the leading 'progressives' in Congress is having such a fight for re-nomination. It's interesting that the leading anti-war voice in Congress is having such a fight for re-nomination. It's interesting that the leading voice in Congress for Universal Single-Payer Not-for-Profit Health Care is having such a fight for re-nomination. It is fascinating that the leading voice for Impeachment is having such a fight for re-nomination.

Not to mention that 'progressives' found it easy to discard him as a candidate for President. Perhaps 'progressives' don't want to hear brutal truths. Perhaps the go-along-to-get-alongers like where the country is. It seems that 'hope' overrides principles.

Elected mayor of Cleveland in 1977, Dennis Kucinich refused to allow a privately owned electrical utility to purchase that city's publicly owned utility. In an effort to force the sale and thereby create a monopoly, banks refused to extend the city any credit and plunged it into default. Kucinich paid the price for his principles when he was defeated in his re-election effort. Years later Kucinich was vindicated, having stopped what would have been an enormous corporate theft of public money and services.
One of the truths about the situation is that it is our corporate masters who want Dennis gone. Why? He stands up to them. We know this, and we know that he'll do what's right rather than go for the easy re-nomination and re-election.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer added it's adled voice to the campaign:

"Congress runs on relationships and loyalties. Yet Kucinich repeatedly has defied House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her leadership team [emphasis mine] by not supporting their attempts to impose a deadline on U.S. involvement in Iraq - even when those attempts were part of realistic bipartisan proposals to recalibrate a policy he detests."
Defying the current Leadership in the House? I should think that'd make Dennis a hero in the 'progressive community.'

Support for Nancy Pelosi and the awful Democratic Congressional leadership should not be held up as the standard for political success. After declaring that Kucinich's principles aren't worth supporting, the Plain Dealer heaps further insult by comparing Kucinich to Democrats who win approval by failing the people. Barney Frank is used as an example. ". . . he knows when and how to cut a deal. He delivers [emphasis mine] for his party, his constituents and his beliefs.

Citizens never benefit from what Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi would call victory. There is no bipartisan recalibration with the Bush regime. Bush still gets what he wants from Democrats. They fund the Iraq occupation, support trade deals that endanger American workers, refuse to rebuild the Gulf Coast, and say nothing when administration officials ignore their subpoenas. Because acquiescence is equated with political rectitude, Kucinich flunks the test.
It seems that the Democratic Party has chosen the path of acquiesence and subservience. Dennis doesn't fit that mode. Does this mean that his voice should be silenced?

Kucinich is a "black" congressional candidate. He was the only progressive in the presidential campaign. His re-election should be the first priority for activists in this presidential campaign year. Imagine a Congress with no voice for impeachment. Imagine Congress with no questions about Iraqi civilian casualties. Imagine a Congress without Kucinich when Bush decides on his pretext for war against Iran. Imagine the worst, because that is what we will have if Kucinich is defeated.
If you agree that Dennis Kucinich should be returned to Congress, where his clear voice and principles are so badly needed, help support his re-nomination campaign! His campaign website is
kucinich.us, where you can learn more about the Congressman. You can also donate to the campaign here or at my Act Blue Dennis for Congress page.

As always,

Go Dennis!
http://kucinich.us
http://integritynow.org
For those of us on the left, Dennis is OUR Congressman!

Kucinich was the only Dem candidate who offered substantial change rather than platitudes of hope. An alternative to the corporate take-over of our economic, political, cultural and social structures.

What can one do now except mourn for one's nation and wait out the storm?

Economic forces set in motion by corporatocracy would suggest staying out of debt. What's good for corporations in the short-term isn't always good for the U.S.A. in the long-term. We should have learned that in 1929.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

You go ahead and wait.

The rest of us got work to do.






BTW, Dennis was also my first choice.
But that was then, I'm not gonna continue to cry about what could have been.

I'd cry about Obama's economic advisors. A continuation of similar economic policies isn't a good thing. Same old trickle down, shove the wealth to the top stuff. It's bankrupting the nation and breaking most individuals as well.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

None the less, oryou gonna go back into the monistary and wait for the Obama years to pass?

Nope. I have to be in Colo. to take care of my mom. She is way up there in age and not doing well.

However, monastaries in general, seem to be fairly immune from the financial messes of the greater society outside their boundaries. They are even a bit more democratic in some ways. We can replace our executive (Abbot) within 5 minutes! One monk doesn't dine on celery while another dines on steak.

All have access to continued higher education, no one is homeless, no one is without medical care, everyone has a job that he enjoys most and does best. Ample time for recreation and discourse. Any technological innovation doesn't throw someone out of work and make them redundant...it just increases their free-time to pursue individual interests.

The world outside the monastery seems rather nuts to me. It could do much better.

I don't look for any top-running candidate to make enough "changes" to prevent a coming storm. Someone rising to the occassion as FDR did is the best I can look forward to. I think Obama is the better choice over Hillary. In a crises, Hillary would have to reverse herself on nearly every position she has voted for and supported. Obama doesn't have that baggage, and I voted for him in the Colo. caucus. Kucinich wasn't presented as a choice even though he was the only candidate to make any economic/sociological sense.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

Where do the monastery's revenues come from?

We operate a small business for export, and the monastery could still function without that. It's pretty self-sufficient. We receive some donations at church services. We could do without those also, and generally use those funds to assist the community.

Solar power for lighting helps a lot in self-sufficiency. Our housing requires no heating or cooling and maintains an interior temperature of 72-74 degrees year-round with outdoor temperatures ranging from the low teens to 125.

The business basically supports higher education. A frill, I suppose that is utilized as an adjunct to a well-stocked library.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

Corrtect me if I'm wrong, but European Monsitaries last for centuries pretty much by being as independant as possible, yes?

wait, I'm confused...

are you a monk, or a retired monk, or none of the above?


If you were, or are a monk, what order did you study under?

I'm seeing two sources of revenue, both of which you could do without. Is there any source of revenue you couldn't do without?

As I said, the monastery is pretty much self-sustaining. I'm a monk of the eastern church living outside my monastery to care for my elderly mother. The eastern church doesn't have "orders". There are similarities and differences. For example, we stand during services. A joke is, if you arrive late there will be sitting room only.

Probably the best examples of monastic life in the eastern church would be Mt. Athos, Greece. A semi-autonomous region consisting of 20 monastic communities. While within a EU nation, it is outside of EU jurisdiction. It's administration, however, differs greatly from communities outside of Mt. Athos.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a diseas"

Poly, this is Chris from Hartmann's good to see you joined up.

Obama is nothing more than a corporate stooge like the other corporate candidate Billary. The repugs got just what they want: they will be running two corporate controlled candidates against each other. McCian and apparently Obama. Either way corporations win and We The People lose.

What would it take for You the People to win?

True. No matter which Dem candidate gets the nomination, the nominee of corporatocracy wins. People are somehow excited over this.

In the general election, it will be the corporate candidate vs. the corporate candidate. Big deal. The same basic ideology with a bit of sugar-coating. Obama is running on "hope, change and progress". Same things Bush ran on for his first term.

A lot of "hope" and no substance.

Health ins. firms will remain right in the middle of our health care system.

"Free trade" policies, particularly with China will remain intact with a continual dismantelling of our economic infrastructure.

Regressive tax policies will remain intact with increasing wealth disparities which ultimately always lead to economic collapses.

Hope is better than dispair, but I've yet to see hope solve a problem.

An illusion of democracy and "hope" have a lot in common.

The immediate solution would be to get corporations out of politics. I believe it was Wisconsin that once had a law barring any corporation from doing business in their state if they contributed to a political campaign. Of course, the law was shot down by the Supreme Court. Corporations were defined as people and couldn't be denied participation. I suppose its only a matter of time before G.E. or GM run for president rather than utilizing a walking, breathing surrogate.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

Would you suggest voting for Obama or McCain?
Or does it matter?

That sounded painfully like our favorite resident hopeless case.

With regards the concept referred to as hope: i would prefer to live in the NOW and not some promised version of an unfulfilled future that never appears. Climate change has introduced an urgency on human affairs of an order of magnitude not seen since the extinction of another species that walked these lands. Any one who ignores it, does so to their own peril. Life as we know it is undergoing profound change on planet Earth. Our older ancestors recognize this: all indigenous peoples still living in their original ways.

Obama has surely tapped into archetypal forces and he is a great orator. Nevertheless, he is still owned by the status quo.

Who will i vote for?

I heard Nader just got back in. But i am surly open to any non- affiliated voice not marching lock step with Ameri(k)an CEO's for a start.

Strangely fortuitous typo.

Thanks. Never claimed i could type.

But for anyone still not driven by their "hopes" which is really only a mask for existential angst you might find this interesting as a case in point:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/28/7341/

I agree with you about climate change - it's something we each ought to be addressing in our everyday lives.
May I ask (and not simply for the sake of asking, but because so many pay lip service to this problem whist actually doing nothing) what changes you've made in your life with regards to reducing your CO2 emissions?

so far has failed to answer my question

Impressive. I'm beginning to think Senator Obama has some sense.

hey karen, given the closed minds ive encountered on this site so far, i must confess my reluctance to say so as it will probably be used against me. I would be happy to answer it at the other place in detail.

Sky, sorry lad, i am not here to hold your hand, i answered your question. Perhaps you did not like what i said. Let me try one more time. I have no intention of voting for either a Republican or a Republican disguised as a Democrat. Get it?

You catch on quick!

Unexpectedly, I agree with you.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/bb/index...st&p=124549

Yes you are correct, you did reply.I was on my lunch break, being distracted and missed it.
It is also true that I did not like what you said. As I have said, your protest vote will not help anyone.

You won't vote for anyone that can actually DO anything about anything!
Instead, you will rant about how simply awful everything is!

give it a rest, sky. your alter ego has been banned. I know you miss it, but life goes on.

I beg your pardon?
What are you going on about now?

AFW?

You think he's the only one like him to exist?


AFW was banned?

Hate to break this to you Sky but a vote for either Republican candidate is a vote that will not lead to change or transformation. As far as a "rant" goes that is just your own interpretive projection of my words. Unlike you and those that follow the herding instinct, i respect your right to vote any way you choose to. Vote for Obama. As a free entity i affirm that right. I intend to do the same, not because it is a "protest vote" but because it represents my values. If the Democratic Party ever decides to return to the ranks of the opposition party instead of the enabler party, i might join you. If you ever want to talk issues in depth outside of your emotional leanings give me a shout.

I have news for you my new best friend, change is coming even if you refuse to see it or admit it.
In fact, it has already begun.


If you decide to climb down off your high horse and consider the possibility that you aren't the smartest person in the room, (Jubal already has claims on the title), then perhaps I'll have these talks with you, grasshopper.

Thanks Sky, I will keep all that in mind.

Grasshopper signing off...

Thanks Chris.
I think if you stick around here for a while though, you'll see there are some open minds here... it's just that sometimes some forget they're here to learn too!






The point of universal suffrage is that we each get to vote according to our own beliefs, values and judgements. Maybe if more of us actually id that, instead of voting for the media/establishment favourite some much sought after changes would be in place already?
That said, the system as it stands today is not about to be toppled overnight (desirable as that senareo is!), so a little pragmatism is probably reasonable.

For me anyway Karen, voting is not about making some personal statement. It's about using the system to actually accomplish something. Or to at least try. And IMO, making a real effort counts for so much more than protest votes and whining.

But of course, that's just my opinion.

But that's just it Sky nothings changing; not for the better at least. The system is rigged to favour big business and corporate interests, it's no longer 'of the people, by the people, for the people'.

I understand that now you feel it's important to work with what you've got, but is that enough any more?
I think the answer to that question my well lie in the outcome of this years elections and, should Obama win, how he uses his position...

But no matter how it turns out, the system needs to change or to no longer call itself a democracy.

But let me ask you this Sky: Should either Clinton or McCain end up in the WH, resulting in an assured minimum of 4 more years of the same, will your pragmatic stance remain intact?

Hate to seem a pessimist, Karen, but the kind of expedience that you'd like to see applied to the dramatic change you desire isn't likely to happen at the ballot box. What we can do in the short term is to elect someone that might slow or stop the runaway train of corporatocracy and begin a measured and incremental movement toward our goals. Any potentially faster method probably shouldn't be mentioned here.

But that's something I just don't see happening. The more I learn about the system as it stands today, the more i see that it has taken a lot longer than 8 years to stablish. This corporatocracy is more than the work of bush, et al.
I'm not looking for expediency, per say, but I am looking for a real, fundamental, change of direction.
I'm willing to wait and see if that change of direction comes in this election cycle, but if it does not, then people need to think seriously about what to do about that.

IMO, within the constraints of the current system, or without, this election has to be the catalyst for change.

If that's the case, ifthat is really how it is, then why bother?
Why is there a White Rose forum and why do we discuss these things?
Why vote? Why care at all?

Or, better yet, how about we act to change a system which doesn't represent the people it claims to represent?
We don't have to play by their rules Sky.There are options.

Or even better still, why not be realistic and work with what you got, and do the very best you can IN SPITE of the uphill climb?

How about we accept our small victories when ever and where ever we can make them happen?

How about we don't simply make noise, and protest and throw away what small amout of pull we have and do our individual tiny, almost insignificant bit to make the world a better place, EVEN if we never actually get any positive reward for all our hard work?

Karen, thought you might find interesting the following Common Dream article:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/29/7382/

The scope of this narrative is decidedly inimical to the white inside the beltway tripe you find on sites like this. The herd is a little too eager spreading their status quo gospel sprinkled with a certain political orthodoxy ad nausea!

Greetings, my friend. I see you are rattling the gerbil cages, as usual!

so, the trixter(?) is into gerbils, huh?
are you for the freedom of Tibet, too?

Inside joke.

Chris walks his talk, and it's his talk, his walk.

How generous of you to cast your pearls here. Where do you find the patience?

yeah, but the gerbil thing... anyone into gerbils might not walk like the rest of us....