He just said that he'll let the insurance companies have a seat at the table, but not allow them to buy every chair...

that got me to thinking about my stance on ron paul, and how he's too extreme...

and it got me to thinking about DK and Edwards...

and it made me think, that eventhough i'm incredibly stubborn, and i have a vision that i want this country to embrace, there are many who will not endorse drastic change. They WILL NOT accept anyone that will change their version of status quo, unless they don't have the resources to make a difference. that statement of the allowence of corporate interest, but refusal to cave to them gave me... hope. a long and distant hope, but one that seems realistic, and, in the long view, idealistic.

i live in NY. If I lived in AZ still, I might not feel the same way, but I'm about to give obama my vote.

I trust DK, and until now, I wouldn't trust obama.

now I do.

him losing gave me hope in what he would do if he won.

Seriously?

That's very big of you, and may be the first time I've actually seem someone on this board change their mind (the system works!).


Kudos

yes, seriously...

although the posts only reflect snippets of the trains of thought going through my mind at the time...

My hands cant type as fast as I think, so to some, it won't appear rational, or well though out. I assure you the thoughts are there, just not the words. To fully explain myself it would've taken a couple pages.

Don't think this means I'm gonna start saying that the congress is doing everything they can to do what they should.

Don't think that this makes me happy or complacent... i'm far from either of those.

I'm just beginning to recognize how incremental the shift needs to be.

it's hard to accept, because of how quickly it all went to hell. Naturally, those of conscience want it to be fixed just as quickly, but there were interests with lots of power that were invested in the collapse of the ideology of our country, and its gonna take a lot of prying, subversion and compromise to bring it back. Also a lot of quiet, collected, and patient strength in our leaders, and ourselves.

Precisely.

Seuss! I agree with you. I also cannot type nearly as fast as I think.

One thing I thought of last night though is that the country really did not shift as fast as we think. The groundwork for these neocon bastards was laid many years, if not decades ago. They simply finally had all the pieces in place to successfully win (steal) 2 elections and put folks into power. Through clever manipulation of the corporate media over years they nudged the country to the right, to the right, to the right, a little more, almost there, and then bam won (stole) the election in 2000, and a major event (9/11....good timing on the part of those saudi terrorists BTW) which enabled them to stop nudging and throw the country to the right.

Point being, all the pieces were being put into place for decades. We cannot simply undo all this damage overnight, as it did not occur overnight as much as I, and many of us here, would like to.

Therefore, we must take incremental BUT ACHIEVABLE steps to get closer to our goals.

In order to change the game, one must first learn the rules of the game and play them to perfection.

Change can happen, but it won't be overnight. Let's keep the faith people.

Nice reasoning guy's. Plenty of food for thought.

Incidentally, I also see that the machinery for this neocon take-over was put into place decades ago (or at least, that was the start of it), thanks to Reagan there and Thatcher here. They did their jobs well!

Good thread.

Keep the faith, America.

Karen, you are right. I also think it goes back to the 60s and 70s and the start up of all the "conservative" and neo-con think tanks. These folks had a plan from the get go and slowly implemented it. Reagan and Thatcher were certainly key players, but not necessarily the root of all evil.

While it's true that its been constantly going downward for decades, maybe even more than a century, I doubt many of us would be nearly this vocal, were it not for the decline of the last seven years. I know about Prescott bush, I know about the Fed, I know about the Rothschild's and the Rockefeller's, but I was referring to the outright blatant disgusting power - grabs of the recent past... These are the things that made me so desperate for a diametrically opposed administration. But that would feed the beast, through obstructionism and ultra-partisanship. I believe (now), that an Edwards nomination would instill this in a larger way, and create situations that would further polarize the nation. The only options after considering this are Obama and Clinton. Clinton IS the beast, even if she still creates polarization because of her name. Obama is the only one left that hasn't proven himself to be a tool, and his candidacy comes with the added bonus of restoring some faith in us from middle eastern and black races, even if I think that's a stupid reason to vote for him... That's just icing, and that's all it should be.


just a quick note... my spell check program knew rothchilds, rockafellers, edwards, and clinton, but didn't know obama or proven!! weird huh?

Again, interesting reasoning... Makes some sense too!



Weird? Why it's practically odd!

The figurehead is often the least important item, as witnessed by GWB. It needs to be just vicious enough to do whatever the masters want to stay in the spotlight, but not clever enough to usurp the usurpers.
Thatcher was a master manipulator, whereas Ronnie Rayguns was a front for a far more sinister force that had decided to start worming out into the open using him. Unfortunately for them, he also had some independent will remaining, and it wasn't until the "Decider" that they found the perfect sock puppet.
Poppa Bush was too much a part of the system and was looking out for number one, as well as being unpopular due to having the charisma of a fish. He was shuffled off by Bill, after giving the neocons wood watching from the sidelines, then they kicked their expensive heels in frustration during Bill's reign, snapping at any little tit-bits which fell from the table, gnarling and worrying at them, hoping that it would be something meaty, so they could use their new, vigorous friends, the fundies, to catapult them into the hot seat...

Even now I find it utterly impossible that someone can be almost impeached for being dishonest about a consenting sexual encounter, and yet lying a nation into war, maybe having some part in the total failure of every defense system of that same nation all at exactly the same time, ( or even worse) on 9/11, being directly responsable for 4000 US military deaths, over 30,000 wounded, destroying the US economy, raping the planet and killing 1,000,000 innocent Iraqi and Afghan citizens, destroying two countries, creating the biggest refugee movement since the Israelis kicked the Palestinians out of Palestine, corruption, gerrymandering and treasonous activities on a scale rarely seen since Nero, all this, and not a whiff of impeachment, just a nod and a wink. Shit.

No, there's a special place in Hell for Irving Kristol and his group of grim fiends (oh, did I forget the "r" ?) that spewed up the plague of neoconservatism on us. Even the former stalwarts like Francis Fukayama are reneging and coming out in criticism of the neocons. Guess some ethical whisper remained somewhere in some of them...