sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 4:48 pm
Alternethttp://www.alternet.org/election08/72524/Ron Paul is Scary,
But Those Who Cheer Him Are Even ScarierBy Earl Ofari Hutchinson, New America Media. Posted January 3, 2008.
The scariest thing about GOP presidential contender Ron Paul is not
his fringe, odd-ball racial views. It is that people take him seriously.
The scariest thing about no hope GOP presidential contender Ron Paul is not his fringe, odd-ball racial views. It's not that he polls in single digits in all national polls and has zilch of a chance to get the nomination. It's not that at times the GOP candidates sound just as racially isolationist as he does. It's certainly not that he will wow a national audience with his trademark shoot-from-the-lip zingers even if ABC and Fox recant in a moment of compassion and dump him back in a seat for their January 6 televised GOP New Hampshire presidential debate.
The scariest thing about Paul is that even though only a few hard core Paul backers will waste a vote on him, millions more seem to agree that his off beat views, especially on race matters, make sense. They even stand logic as high as it get can go on its head to defend their leader against all comers. That's especially true when it comes to Paul's views on race and ethnic politics.
That's not a small point given the open but more often sneaky role that race and ethnicity will increasingly play in the presidential derby. Democratic presidential contenders Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Bill Richardson have pulled out all stops to woo and court blacks, Latinos and Asian voters. They have made poverty, affordable health care, immigration reform, and job protections the linchpins of their campaigns.
Paul and the GOP candidates have done just the opposite. They duck, dodge, and deny racial issues. The only departure from their racial blind eye is to fan anti-immigrant flames. Paul has gone one better. In an ad, he demanded that students from alleged terrorist countries should be denied visas into the U.S.
Paul offered not a shred of proof that there are hordes of students pouring into America to commit terrorist acts. The ad was more than just a cheap ploy to fan terrorism fears. This reinforced the worst in racial and religious stereotyping and negative typecasting. The stereotype is that any one in America with a non-white face and is a Muslim is a terrorist.
Then there's Paul's now infamous slavery quip that he made on Meet the Press. Paul claimed the Civil War was an unnecessary bloodbath that could and should have been avoided. All Lincoln had to do was buy the slaves. Other slave promoting countries, asserts Paul, didn't fight wars and they ended slavery peacefully. Paul's historical dumbness would have been laughable except for four things.
One, he was dead wrong. Lincoln twice made offers to the slave owners to buy the slaves. They turned him down flat. The countries that freed the slaves without war, presumably France and England, unlike the U.S., did not practice slavery in their countries. And France did fight a war -- Napoleon's ill-fated invasion of Haiti to put down the slave revolt there.
Two, he's running for president and has a national platform to spout his wrong-headed views (Meet the Press!). Three, he's done and said stuff like this many times before. Among the choice Paulisms are that blacks are criminally inclined, political dumb bells, and chronic welfare deadbeats. There was also the alleged Paul hobnob with a noted white supremacist. Here's what Paul on his campaign website ronpaul2008.com has to say about race. In fact he even highlights this as "Issue: Racism" on the site.
"Government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combat bigotry." In other words, the 1954 landmark Supreme Court's Brown vs. Board of education school desegregation decision, the 1964 and 1968 Civil Rights Acts, the 1965 Voting Rights Act, and legions of court decisions and state laws that bar discrimination are worthless. Worse, says Paul, they actually promote bigotry by dividing Americans into race and class.
Paul's cure for racial bigotry is to change people's hearts. Whew!! The ghosts of Barry Goldwater, Strom Thurmond, the unreconstructed George Wallace, and packs of Southern States Righters and Citizens Councils big shots would lustily cheer Paul on that one. They railed for decades against the federal government's lift of even the tiniest finger to protect black rights and lives. Their stock line was that race relations can only change when hearts change. If we waited for that to happen the "whites only" signs would still be dangling prominently from every toilet and school house door in the South.
Paul's views are a corn ball blend of libertarianism, know-nothing Americanism, and ultra conservative laissez faire limited government. This marks him as a type A American political quirk.
Now there's the fourth reason not to laugh at Paul. And this is really what makes him scary. There are apparently millions that don't see a darn thing wrong with any of this and pillory anyone who does. They are even scarier than him. Maybe ABC and Fox should let Paul crash the New Hampshire debate. It's always good to see an extremist publicly confirm just how scary he and those that cheer him on really are.
seuss
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 6:10 pm
ouch.
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:02 pm
What bullshit.
seuss
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:38 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:02 pm)

What bullshit?
fixed that for ya.
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:44 pm
I kept telling Highstreet that Ron Paul was part of the religious right - maybe now that he sees Jesus is a Paul supporter, he'll finally believe me.
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:51 pm
Interesting koinkidinks?
Highstreet is scarce, and in comes Jesus.
Considering what the article actually says, it's damned near amusing!
Or not. Who knows?
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:53 pm
Perhaps people see Paul as a needed opponent to fascist rule in America.
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:56 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 7:53 pm)

Perhaps people see Paul as a needed opponent to fascist rule in America.
Apparently not very many.
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:57 pm
Most folk haven't a clue; nor are they interested.
seuss
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:59 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:57 pm)

Most folk haven't a clue; nor are they interested.
... yeah... I can think of a couple...
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:00 pm
Go on then...
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:09 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 8:00 pm)

Go on then...
Ah, you go on first.
Lead the way.
(Talk about setting a baited hook)
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:13 pm
I just hope you didn't intend to include me on your short-list, citizen!
Cheers.
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:19 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:53 pm)

Perhaps people see Paul as a needed opponent to fascist rule in America.
I don't think so, Jesus. Most people see Ron Paul as a crazy little old racist.
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:22 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 8:13 pm)

I just hope you didn't intend to include me on your short-list, citizen!
Cheers.
Sorry, but I thought it worth while to shine a light.
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:33 pm
Yeah.
I think that was intended.
Anyhow, RP brings too many timely issues to the fore to dismiss as a lunatic, and any Klan-like affiliation or other real evidence of blatant racism should be more clearly revealed. This man, in particular, has many enemies in those who would preserve the status-quo; and not the least of them the MIC.
I intend to vote for Paul in the Calif. primaries partly in hopes of giving his platform more exposure and study, and also in hope of actually seeing my vote counted the way it was cast, since many Americans will be voting for RP...Crazy or not.
Then, I'll get to choose between the lesser of two fascists in the general.
Edit: Response to "I don't think so, Jesus. Most people see Ron Paul as a crazy little old racist."
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:44 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 8:33 pm)

Yeah.
I think that was intended.
Anyhow, RP brings too many timely issues to the fore to dismiss as a lunatic, and any Klan-like affiliation or other real evidence of blatant racism should be more clearly revealed. This man, in particular, has many enemies in those who would preserve the status-quo; and not the least of them the MIC.
I intend to vote for Paul in the Calif. primaries partly in hopes of giving his platform more exposure and study, and also in hope of actually seeing my vote counted the way it was cast, since many Americans will be voting for RP...Crazy or not.
Then, I'll get to choose between the lesser of two fascists in the general.
Edit: Response to "I don't think so, Jesus. Most people see Ron Paul as a crazy little old racist."
I can't really imagine how it could be any more clear.
Do you need Paul to wear a sheet on national TV?
Fact is, most people (excluding the koolaid drinkin Paul fanatics) see Paul as a crazy little old racist!
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:45 pm
Fact is, most people are deluded, too.
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:47 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 8:45 pm)

Fact is, most people are deluded, too.
Good thing though that you see everything so clearly.
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:49 pm
Thank heaven I'm an atheist. Learning that Jesus is a Republican from California might send me over the bend, if I were one of the faithful.
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:49 pm
Thank heaven I'm an atheist. Learning that Jesus is a Republican from California might send me over the bend, if I were one of the faithful.
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:52 pm
Well, I see many things, but admit things aren't entirely clear.
My eyes are open however, and I would for example welcome your proof that RP is a Klansman.
In the meantime, I seriously doubt that you and I stand as polar-opposites ideologicly, so try not to be such a prick, eh?
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:55 pm
QUOTE(maxanne @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:49 pm)

Thank heaven I'm an atheist. Learning that Jesus is a Republican from California might send me over the bend, if I were one of the faithful.

LOL! I'll have to register as a Republicant to vote for RP of course, and that's going to be a trip I must say.
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:01 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:52 pm)

Well, I see many things, but admit things aren't entirely clear.
My eyes are open however, and I would for example welcome your proof that RP is a Klansman.
In the meantime, I seriously doubt that you and I stand as polar-opposites ideologicly, so try not to be such a prick, eh?
I can't help it. I am a prick. Butch up.
I never said Paul was a Klansman. He did, however, receive an endorsement from David Duke, former Grand Wizard of the KKK. StormFront.org has a link to Paul's contribution page - and StormFront founder Don Black has donated to Paul StormFront being a site for white Nationalists and neo-Nazis.
I'm sure he's not a member of the KKK - but he's KKK friendly.
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:10 pm
QUOTE(maxanne @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:01 pm)

I can't help it. I am a prick. Butch up.
I never said Paul was a Klansman. He did, however, receive an endorsement from David Duke, former Grand Wizard of the KKK. StormFront.org has a link to Paul's contribution page - and StormFront founder Don Black has donated to Paul StormFront being a site for white Nationalists and neo-Nazis.
I'm sure he's not a member of the KKK - but he's KKK friendly.
I'm not about to endorse stupid fucking Klansman or any other bullshit elitist factions of America, but its not surprising that vocal racists would support the only Constitutionalist in the frey, since it is that which continues to protect the free-speech of assholes and hip folk alike.
What do ya think? Will RP segregate our society even more than it is today? Will he throw-down an EO outlawing abortion across the land? Will he put-up a tall wall around our country, and issue PaulDollars to his fans?
Sheesh.
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:18 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:10 am)

I'm not about to endorse stupid fucking Klansman or any other bullshit elitist factions of America, but its not surprising that vocal racists would support the only Constitutionalist in the frey, since it is that which continues to protect the free-speech of assholes and hip folk alike.
What do ya think? Will RP segregate our society even more than it is today? Will he throw-down an EO outlawing abortion across the land? Will he put-up a tall wall around our country, and issue PaulDollars to his fans?
Sheesh.
He's running an ad in my state saying he'll build a wall.
I suspect if you owned a set of ovaries, you wouldn't take his position on choice so lightly.
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:23 pm
I'm not a Christian, luv...and while I can sympathize with those who struggle with the thought of abortions, I do not share their views about it's legality. RP would not issue a federal edict abolishing abortions however, and would instead leave the issue to the states.
The ridiculous wall which is now being built on the southern border was ok'd by our representatives, despite all reason.
Go figure.
Edit: Here's the way it is in our democracy:
"The January 6th Republican Forum from New Hampshire will be aired live by Fox News at 8pm Eastern, and replayed at 11pm.
Invited to attend are Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Fred Thompson."
maxanne
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:33 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:23 am)

I'm not a Christian, luv...and while I can sympathize with those who struggle with the thought of abortions, I do not share their views about it's legality. RP would not issue a federal edict abolishing abortions however, and would instead leave the issue to the states.
Which means that in some states women would be slaves and in others they would not. As I said before, if you had ovaries, this would mean something to you.
QUOTE
"The January 6th Republican Forum from New Hampshire will be aired live by Fox News at 8pm Eastern, and replayed at 11pm.
Invited to attend are Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Fred Thompson."
The NH GOP pulled their sponsorship from the debate in protest of all of their candidates not being included. In other news, the NH Democrats engaged in some handwringing over the fact that some of their candidates were not included.
Personally - I wish Ron Paul had been there - no one deserves a good long debating more than Ron Paul.
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:41 pm
How come it always seems as though the Paulists are well versed on about 20% of the facts,
and when ever they are questioned about this, they ask YOU to back up your claim with facts?
I mean, isn't it they who have something to prove? Paul is a nobody running a can't win campaign!
Jesus!
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:46 pm
RP has a message regarding what he and many others consider true slavery in America, and I too think he needs to be included in all the mainstream discourse. The dude has served many years without wavering in his stance, and to preclude the public's awareness of his perspective is criminal IMO.
I would like to see Kucinich do well; indeed any of those few who stood opposed to freeing Neocons upon the world. These precious few are my representatives.
sky of mind
Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:55 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:46 pm)

RP has a message regarding what he and many others consider true slavery in America, and I too think he needs to be included in all the mainstream discourse. The dude has served many years without wavering in his stance, and to preclude the public's awareness of his perspective is criminal IMO.
I would like to see Kucinich do well; indeed any of those few who stood opposed to freeing Neocons upon the world. These precious few are my representatives.
I don't want him excluded either.
I also don't want people to be deluded about who he is and what he stands for, over and above what the Paulists think they know, or are willing to discuss.
To this end, he needs to be always included.
Keep your friends close.
Keep your enemies even closer!
maxanne
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:05 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:46 am)

RP has a message regarding what he and many others consider true slavery in America, and I too think he needs to be included in all the mainstream discourse. The dude has served many years without wavering in his stance, and to preclude the public's awareness of his perspective is criminal IMO.
I would like to see Kucinich do well; indeed any of those few who stood opposed to freeing Neocons upon the world. These precious few are my representatives.
Seriously - I could give a damn what Paul thinks about true slavery. As long as he wants to use women's reproductive choices to oppress us, he can kiss my aging white ass.
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:18 am
QUOTE(maxanne @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:05 am)

Seriously - I could give a damn what Paul thinks about true slavery. As long as he wants to use women's reproductive choices to oppress us, he can kiss my aging white ass.
Got it.
Hillary then.
Seriously, good luck to all of us.
sky of mind
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:32 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:18 pm)

Got it.
Hillary then.
Seriously, good luck to all of us.
So, if you don't get Paul, Hillary is the only option left?
Who's chain do you think yer yankin, newby?
happymisanthropy
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 1:01 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 9:46 pm)

RP has a message regarding what he and many others consider true slavery in America...
Oh, yeah, paying taxes is the real slavery. Except poll taxes, that was a states' rights issue.
I see how it is.
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 9:32 am
Do ya?
karen
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 9:45 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 10:33 pm)

Yeah.
I think that was intended.
Anyhow, RP brings too many timely issues to the fore to dismiss as a lunatic, and any Klan-like affiliation or other real evidence of blatant racism should be more clearly revealed. This man, in particular, has many enemies in those who would preserve the status-quo; and not the least of them the MIC.
I intend to vote for Paul in the Calif. primaries partly in hopes of giving his platform more exposure and study, and also in hope of actually seeing my vote counted the way it was cast, since many Americans will be voting for RP...Crazy or not.
Then, I'll get to choose between the lesser of two fascists in the general.
Edit: Response to "I don't think so, Jesus. Most people see Ron Paul as a crazy little old racist."
Does a persons racism have to be blatant in order for it to be really real racism. If it isn't overtly extreme it isn't racism, is that the general idea here?
Just wondering you understand.
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:23 pm)

I'm not a Christian, luv...and while I can sympathize with those who struggle with the thought of abortions, I do not share their views about it's legality. RP would not issue a federal edict abolishing abortions however, and would instead leave the issue to the states.
Translation: RP would
not protect, nationwide, a womans
right to bodily and reproductive autonomy, instead he would leave women at the mercy of the states in which they reside.
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Saturday, 5 January 2008, 11:46 pm)

I would like to see Kucinich do well; indeed any of those few who stood opposed to freeing Neocons upon the world. These precious few are my representatives.
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 9:54 am
"Does a persons racism have to be blatant in order for it to be really real racism. If it isn't overtly extreme it isn't racism, is that the general idea here?
Just wondering you understand."
Yes. I don't see Ron Paul as racist. Nor has the "proof" as presented here even suggestive.
maxanne
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:04 am
Just an update on how scary Ron Paul's cult worshippers are - I had 3 anonymous threats today, so far - and it's not even noon yet.
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:19 am
Maybe you would rather have Rudy oppose Obama in the general election?
karen
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:21 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 9:54 am)

"Does a persons racism have to be blatant in order for it to be really real racism. If it isn't overtly extreme it isn't racism, is that the general idea here?
Just wondering you understand."
Yes. I don't see Ron Paul as racist. Nor has the "proof" as presented here even suggestive.
Let me see if I've got this right: I can employ covert racist tactics, and that's perfectly OK. It's only overt racism that's actual; racism?
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:23 am
QUOTE(karen @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:21 am)

?????????????
karen
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:36 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 9:54 am)

[I said]
"Does a persons racism have to be blatant in order for it to be really real racism. If it isn't overtly extreme it isn't racism, is that the general idea here?
Just wondering you understand."
[You said]
Yes. I don't see Ron Paul as racist. Nor has the "proof" as presented here even suggestive.
I retorted:
QUOTE(karen @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:21 am)

Let me see if I've got this right: I can employ
covert racist tactics, and that's perfectly OK. It's only
overt racism that's actual; racism?

Then you queried:
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:23 am)

?????????????
Does this answer your question?
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:49 am
QUOTE(karen @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:36 am)

I retorted:
Then you queried:
Does this answer your question?
Republican warmongers are employing racist tactics, but RP ain't.
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:50 am
Gotta go now.
Talk with all you good people later.
Peace.
karen
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 11:00 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 10:49 am)

Republican warmongers are employing racist tactics, but RP ain't.

Ok.
Later Jesus! Peace. ;)
seuss
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 11:20 am
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 11:19 am)

Maybe you would rather have Rudy oppose Obama in the general election?
I, for one, say hell no, but that doesn't mean the majority of paul supporters, in general, aren't batshit crazy.
sky of mind
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:50 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 8:50 am)

Gotta go now.
Talk with all you good people later.
Peace.
Ron Paul is NOT a Racist!
He is not, He is not, He is not!
sky of mind
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 12:52 pm
QUOTE(Jesus! @ Sunday, 6 January 2008, 8:19 am)

Maybe you would rather have Rudy oppose Obama in the general election?
The fact that Rudy is one crazy, screwed up, lying, ass munch, this makes Ron Paul desirable?
Jesus!
Sunday, 6 January 2008, 5:46 pm
RP is certainly desirable as the RNC's nominee for POTUS.
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