Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: California, Ohio and Florida re-adopt paper ballots
OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards > Political Discussion forums > Elections
seuss
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VOT...EMPLATE=DEFAULT

QUOTE
States Question Electronic Vote Machines

By GEORGE MERRITT
Associated Press Writer

DENVER (AP) -- With the presidential race in full swing, Colorado and other states have found critical flaws in the accuracy and security of their electronic voting machines, forcing officials to scramble to return to the paper ballots they abandoned after the Florida debacle of 2000.

In December alone, top election officials in Ohio and Colorado declared that widely used voting equipment is unfit for elections.

"Every system that is out there, one state or another has found that they are no good," said John Gideon of the advocacy group Voters Unite. "Everybody is starting to look at this now and starting to realize that there is something wrong."

The swing states of California, Ohio and Florida have found that security on touch-screen voting machines is inadequate. Testers have been able to disable the systems and even change vote totals.

Florida's "hanging chads" in the disputed 2000 Al Gore-George W. Bush election exposed the imperfection of paper ballot counting and helped lead to a $3 billion government initiative to bring voting into the digital age. The Help America Vote Act of 2002 effectively required that states have electronic equipment in place by 2010.

There are no documented cases of actual election tampering involving electronic voting machines.

But in tests, researchers in Ohio and Colorado found that electronic voting systems could be corrupted with magnets or with Treos and other similar handheld devices.

In Colorado, two kinds of Sequoia Voting Systems electronic voting machines used in Denver and three other counties were decertified because of security weaknesses, including a lack of password protection. Equipment made by Election Systems and Software had programming errors. And optical scanning machines, made by Hart InterCivic, had an error rate of one out of every 100 votes during tests by the state.

"I was surprised," Colorado Secretary of State Mike Coffman said Friday of the failures his office found. "It's an awful position to be put in, but I feel strongly it's important that this equipment be secure and accurately count a vote."

Now some states are turning back to paper - in some cases, just weeks before primary elections.

California, Ohio and Florida have chosen to use scanning machines that count paper ballots electronically.

In Colorado, which has spent $41 million in federal grants on electronic systems, many of the state's nearly 3 million registered voters - and the county officials who conduct the voting - don't know what their elections will look like in 2008.

Coffman and Colorado's clerks and recorders are in a dispute over whether to use mail-in ballots or cast paper ballots at polling places.

All fear time is running out.

"We look at each other and go, 'We have used this equipment in three elections. Why did it get taken to a test board and get decertified?'" said Debbie Green, who heads the Colorado County Clerks Association and is the clerk and recorder of rural Park County. "There are some counties having elections in January and February and they don't have any election equipment."

Vendors of the electronic voting machines warn against a rush back to paper.

It can take two years to put a voting system in place, and overhauling a system just weeks before some states hold presidential primaries will invite a new round of problems, they say.

"To throw the baby out with the bath water is certainly shortsighted," said David Beirne, executive director of the Election Technology Council, which represents manufacturers of 90 percent of electronic systems used in the country.

States have their own certification standards, complicating things for manufacturers. "From an industry standpoint, trying to design a voting system when you don't know how it's being judged is causing a lot of problems," Beirne said.

And having a paper ballot does not guarantee security.

"If you look at the history of election fraud, you are really talking about paper," said Merle King, executive director of the Center for Election Systems at Kennesaw State University in Georgia.
karen
QUOTE
California, Ohio and Florida have chosen to use scanning machines that count paper ballots electronically.

This is a start but it doesn't go nearly far enough. Ballot counting machines are far too easy to tamper with!

Paper ballots, counted by humans is the only way to go. - And it needs to be implemented nationwide too.
seuss
QUOTE(karen @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 5:49 pm) *
This is a start but it doesn't go nearly far enough. Ballot counting machines are far too easy to tamper with!

Paper ballots, counted by humans is the only way to go. - And it needs to be implemented nationwide too.


the electronic optical scanners are pretty good, and in some districts in the larger cities, it would be impossible to visually count all the ballots and have a result in the time needed. The ballot counters (where its done by people) are volunteers, and the only way you could make it happen would be to hire people, which i feel leaves a lot more room for corruption.

optical scanners can't re-mark or remove large numbers of ballots, plus, there's just as much of a trail with them as there is with people, so if the scanner is found to tampered with, you can re-calibrate (very unlikely), and send them through again.
karen
QUOTE(seuss @ Thursday, 3 January 2008, 10:12 am) *
the electronic optical scanners are pretty good, and in some districts in the larger cities, it would be impossible to visually count all the ballots and have a result in the time needed. The ballot counters (where its done by people) are volunteers, and the only way you could make it happen would be to hire people, which i feel leaves a lot more room for corruption.

optical scanners can't re-mark or remove large numbers of ballots, plus, there's just as much of a trail with them as there is with people, so if the scanner is found to tampered with, you can re-calibrate (very unlikely), and send them through again.


Optical scanner are better than electronic voting machines because they leave a physical paper record of votes, provided that record is retained (which isn't always the case!), but they're still all too hackable.
Hacking Democracy

I understand what you're saying about the logsticsof getting enough vote counters to volunteer. - If there's a way to make scanners hack-proof than that would certainly be the best way to go, but until then I'm sticking with my original post.
seuss
QUOTE(karen @ Thursday, 3 January 2008, 5:07 pm) *
Optical scanner are better than electronic voting machines because they leave a physical paper record of votes, provided that record is retained (which isn't always the case!), but they're still all too hackable.
Hacking Democracy

I understand what you're saying about the logsticsof getting enough vote counters to volunteer. - If there's a way to make scanners hack-proof than that would certainly be the best way to go, but until then I'm sticking with my original post.



I've seen this before, but it was more than a year ago...

any chance you know it well enough that you can tell me approximately where it knocks optical scanners (1/4, 1/2, 3/4's through), without me having to go through the whole depressing mess again? I didn't remeber this saying much against them...
karen
QUOTE(seuss @ Thursday, 3 January 2008, 4:20 pm) *
I've seen this before, but it was more than a year ago...

any chance you know it well enough that you can tell me approximately where it knocks optical scanners (1/4, 1/2, 3/4's through), without me having to go through the whole depressing mess again? I didn't remeber this saying much against them...


It's been about a year for me too, but I seem to remember about half way through they start testing the scanners and that whole segment lasts about 20 minutes to half an hour. I can't be sure about my timing tough... Sorry.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.