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seuss
http://letters.washingtonpost.com/WBRH0161...F094CA371C0FE60

QUOTE
INTO THE RING



In Iowa Run-Up, Edwards Uses Fighting Words

DES MOINES -- For the final days in the Iowa contest, John Edwards has shed his blue jeans and open-collar shirt and put on a suit and tie -- and a pair of brass knuckles.

Often the forgotten man in Iowa's three-way Democratic battle, Edwards is on the move. Independent analysts see his support firming up. Advisers to both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama believe he might win the caucuses on Thursday -- though their views should be discounted somewhat because both would rather see Edwards win if they don't.

Four years ago, Edwards closed out Iowa in a rush. Had the campaign lasted a few more days, he might have won, and his second-place finish was almost as surprising as John Kerry's victory.

Nobody in the race here understands the rhythms of campaigns better than Edwards, and nobody is more ruthlessly focused on closing the deal than the former senator. This time he's trying to make it all the way, knowing that he cannot afford to lose Thursday night.

But it is his message that is most remarkable. No thought here of finishing on a sunny and positive note, as he did four years ago. His "America Rising" theme is not a variation of "Morning in America."

It is a call to arms that is raw and angry, populist and pugnacious. It is a message that is as exhausting as it is confrontational. It is a message that makes Al Gore's "people versus the powerful" seem timid by comparison.

One Edwards supporter, departing after a big rally in Des Moines on Saturday night, said he hasn't heard a message as passionate or strong since Bobby Kennedy's 1968 presidential campaign.

Nice clothes aside, Edwards has turned street fighter for the final stretch. His message can be boiled down to a single word -- "Fight!" -- which he repeats over and over and over and over again: "Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!"

Edwards has rolled out anecdotes he has never used to make it more personal. They conjure images that hardly square with his slight frame and good looks. He was, as he now explains, a brawler as a kid, taking on bullies the way he later took on corporations and insurance companies as a trial lawyer.

"Like many of you, I had to fight to survive," he told an audience of nearly 1,000 people on Saturday night. "I mean really. Literally."

He describes the Southern mill town where he grew up as a tough little place and tells the story of getting into a fight one day with an older boy. "Got my butt kicked," he said. When he got home, his father offered a stern lesson in life.

"I don't ever want to hear, son, about you starting a fight," he said his father told him. "But you listen to me and listen to me clearly. I don't want to ever hear that you walked away from one. Because if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and if you're not willing to fight, no one will stand up for you."

The enemy he sees is corporate America and corporate greed. His message seeks not to unite the country but to finish what he describes as "an epic struggle" against forces that are killing America -- destroying jobs, holding down wages, putting people out of work and denying them medical care.

"You need somebody in the arena who will never back down," he says.

He casts America's challenges in terms of morality and immorality. Speaking of tax policies that have encouraged companies to send jobs overseas, he says, "This is insanity -- I mean complete insanity."

The rich have an "iron-fisted grip" on democracy and won't let go through negotiations. "Anybody who suggests that we don't have an epic fight on our hands is living in Never-Never Land," he says.

He condemns wealthy corporate CEOs and "paid mercenaries" in Iraq with equal fervor: They are destroying the future of America.

"When will this stop?" he cried out at a rally in Knoxville, Iowa, on Saturday.

"With you!" a voice responded from the audience.

"With you and with me," he replied.

His rivals scoff at the angry populism coming from Edwards in these final days. They believe it is an invention, saying that what Edwards now talks about bears little resemblance to the record he compiled in the Senate.

It is hypocritical, they say, coming from someone who grew rich in courtrooms and who now lives in an enormous house in North Carolina. It is phony, they argue, to condemn big money and become the beneficiary of an independent expenditure campaign run by a former campaign manager.

None of this bothers Edwards. He knows what the critics say, but he couldn't care less, believing that the attacks haven't hurt him. He believes he is connecting with the anger and unrest that many Americans feel about the state of the country and especially the way Washington works. He promises not to fix the system but to blow it up.

That message is strong brew and not for everyone, but it has found a following. Edwards is counting on enough Iowans -- those in small towns and rural areas especially -- to buy into it to put him over the top on caucus night.
sky of mind
QUOTE
Often the forgotten man in Iowa's three-way Democratic battle, Edwards is on the move. Independent analysts see his support firming up. Advisers to both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama believe he might win the caucuses on Thursday -- though their views should be discounted somewhat because both would rather see Edwards win if they don't.




Statements such as these give me extra hope for Edwards in that should either one not win, they may throw their support behind Edwards. Edwards may be the spoiler this time.
Rousseau
What have they put in his wine ?

Or is that beer with a whiskey chaser ???

"Corporate greed...", and he's got good hair....could this be the new American President who will flush 8 years of the most disasterous pResidency down the tubes, followed by a strong kick up the ass of the neocon menace....or is he just another corporate shill, saying one thing and doing another ?
maxanne
QUOTE(Rousseau @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 1:20 pm) *
What have they put in his wine ?

Or is that beer with a whiskey chaser ???

"Corporate greed...", and he's got good hair....could this be the new American President who will flush 8 years of the most disasterous pResidency down the tubes, followed by a strong kick up the ass of the neocon menace....or is he just another corporate shill, saying one thing and doing another ?


His powerful new language and reinvented persona are at odds with his past history and voting record. That concerns me.
sky of mind
QUOTE(maxanne @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 10:35 am) *
His powerful new language and reinvented persona are at odds with his past history and voting record. That concerns me.



Me too, but not nearly so much as Does Hillary's persona and history.
maxanne
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 1:47 pm) *
Me too, but not nearly so much as Does Hillary's persona and history.



I'm afraid that for me, one set of concerns doesn't cancel out the other.
seuss
QUOTE(maxanne @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 2:06 pm) *
I'm afraid that for me, one set of concerns doesn't cancel out the other.

first, nice avatar...
second, and this is purely hypothetical (obviously,) if DK were to throw his support behind Edwards (and I belive if he were to do this for anyone, it would be edwards,) would you?
sky of mind
QUOTE(maxanne @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 11:06 am) *
I'm afraid that for me, one set of concerns doesn't cancel out the other.




One doesn't have to cancel the other.
But then one also doesn't have to ignore either or both of them.


Given a choice between two or three, you choose one, or don't choose at all.
And history has so well shown us the value derived from "none of the above".

Consider it survival tactics.
You make use of what ever you have, even if nothing is desirable.



You are a well educated, active and informed human being, and you will do what ever it is you think you have to do,
and I will respect that, even if I don't agree.
maxanne
QUOTE(seuss @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 2:11 pm) *
first, nice avatar...
second, and this is purely hypothetical (obviously,) if DK were to throw his support behind Edwards (and I belive if he were to do this for anyone, it would be edwards,) would you?


I am 99% sure that DK will not throw his support behind Edwards.

Even if he did, it wouldn't matter - I am not a blind follower. I can't support Edwards.
sky of mind
QUOTE(maxanne @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 11:39 am) *
I am 99% sure that DK will not throw his support behind Edwards.

Even if he did, it wouldn't matter - I am not a blind follower. I can't support Edwards.




So then who?
If Dennis fails to win, which has a strong probability, who will you support? None of the above?
maxanne
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 2:43 pm) *
So then who?
If Dennis fails to win, which has a strong probability, who will you support? None of the above?


I have 9 months to decide.
Highstreet
QUOTE(Rousseau @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 1:20 pm) *
What have they put in his wine ?

Or is that beer with a whiskey chaser ???

"Corporate greed...", and he's got good hair....could this be the new American President who will flush 8 years of the most disasterous pResidency down the tubes, followed by a strong kick up the ass of the neocon menace....or is he just another corporate shill, saying one thing and doing another ?



This is the line that makes me fall out of my chair laughing:
QUOTE
The rich have an "iron-fisted grip" on democracy and won't let go through negotiations. "Anybody who suggests that we don't have an epic fight on our hands is living in Never-Never Land," he says.


And if you vote for me, they will continue to have an iron grip. Shoot, if you vote for either of my major competitors, all will stay the same with Politics Today.
seuss
you know, high, If you'd ever given any form of information to lead me to believe you know anything about any other candidate but paul, I might take you seriously for a split second... but since you've clearly made up your mind to assume that no one else is worth even the time to check into, I'll continue to consider your credibility, in my opinion at least, non-existent.
Jubal
QUOTE(maxanne @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 1:35 pm) *
His powerful new language and reinvented persona are at odds with his past history and voting record. That concerns me.

Remember Bobby Kennedy.
happymisanthropy
QUOTE(Jubal @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 3:14 am) *
Remember Bobby Kennedy.


What about him? We'll never know if he would have been true to his *new* ideals, so he really isn't a good comparison.
sky of mind
QUOTE(happymisanthropy @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 5:33 pm) *
What about him? We'll never know if he would have been true to his *new* ideals, so he really isn't a good comparison.



It's a good comparrison, as far as it goes.
If all you look at is the change of words, it works.
maxanne
QUOTE(Jubal @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 6:14 am) *
Remember Bobby Kennedy.


Bobby Kennedy's change of heart came about because of his brother's death.
'
Edwards change of heart comes in the name of political expediency.
sky of mind
QUOTE(maxanne @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 6:43 pm) *
Bobby Kennedy's change of heart came about because of his brother's death.
'
Edwards change of heart comes in the name of political expediency.




Actually you don't know that, I believe you are assuming.
Perhaps Edwards has had a change of heart because of his wife's potentially deadly cancer?
Wouldn't that then just about put him on par with Bobby?

What if his wife's illness has brought a feeling of mortality to Edwards and he thinks, ya know, this is it?
Only get one chance, one go 'round.

Put her illness along side the loss of his teenage son, and mortality must be quite evident to him.
Would these events be enough to cause a person to rethink their personal priorities?
maxanne
The repackaging/reinvention of John Edwards began long before he knew his wife's cancer had returned.

Nice try.
sky of mind
QUOTE(maxanne @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 8:07 pm) *
The repackaging/reinvention of John Edwards began long before he knew his wife's cancer had returned.

Nice try.




Well, we won't/can't know the motivation for some time.
Just like with Bobby.
Jubal
QUOTE(maxanne @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 9:43 pm) *
Bobby Kennedy's change of heart came about because of his brother's death.
'
Edwards change of heart comes in the name of political expediency.

According to Bobby, his change of heart came from travelling around the country and meeting the people whose families don't live in compounds.
Jubal
QUOTE(happymisanthropy @ Wednesday, 2 January 2008, 8:33 pm) *
What about him? We'll never know if he would have been true to his *new* ideals, so he really isn't a good comparison.

Same with Edwards, so what's the problem?
happymisanthropy
QUOTE(Jubal @ Thursday, 3 January 2008, 4:22 am) *
Same with Edwards, so what's the problem?


Ok, then I guess it's a perfectly fine comparison. But a bad analogy, since it doesn't prove anything.

About Edwards, that is. It might say something about us.
Highstreet
QUOTE(seuss @ Tuesday, 1 January 2008, 9:50 pm) *
you know, high, If you'd ever given any form of information to lead me to believe you know anything about any other candidate but paul, I might take you seriously for a split second... but since you've clearly made up your mind to assume that no one else is worth even the time to check into, I'll continue to consider your credibility, in my opinion at least, non-existent.


This one is cute:

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/bb/index...showtopic=17932

And of course we could rehash the problem Edwards has with voting the wrong way on every issue since the war, before he "says" he made a mistake.

That kind of tomfoolery in judgement shows he is just another shill who will continue the status quo. Rhetoric against Big Corporations while voting the wrong way and being in the Millionaire's club is instant disqualification. You have only yourself to blame if you fall for his BS. This goes for all the "frontrunners" in both parties. They have changed positions more times than they change underwear. If you can't see this simple truth, than there is little hope for the rest of us.
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