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POAC

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/20...an-thought.html

QUOTE
1690: The state "cannot take from any man any part of his property without his own consent," writes John Locke. His The Second Treatise of Civil Government will inform the Declaration of Independence and the eminent-domain schemes of generations of shopping-mall developers.

1792: German philosopher Wilhelm von Humboldt, in The Sphere and Duties of Government, argues that providing security is the only proper role of the state. Citizens must be granted freedom to live as they choose, he writes, because "the absolute and essential importance of human development [is] in its richest diversity."

1819: "Every time collective power wishes to meddle with private speculations, it harasses the speculators," complains Swiss-born thinker Benjamin Constant in France. "Every time governments pretend to do our business, they do it more incompetently and expensively than we would."

1849: 148 years before the founding of Blackwater, Gustave de Molinari reasons, in his economics treatise Les Soirées de la rue Saint-Lazare, that if trade can supply cheap consumer goods, it can also supply military contractors, rendering government unnecessary.

Henry David Thoreau writes, "That government is best which governs least," inspiring generations of don't-tread-on-me Americans.

1859: In On Liberty, British philosopher John Stuart Mill's Harm Principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so far as his actions do not harm others. He is a firm advocate of free speech.

1885: Former British House of Commons member Auberon Herbert founds the Party of Individual Liberty and later its journal, Free Life, which describes itself as "the organ of voluntary taxation and the voluntary state." His term "voluntaryism" is later adopted by libertarians in 1950s America.

1922: German political economist Franz Oppenheimer publishes the English version of his popular revisionist history of government power, The State, tracing its origins to blood and conquest and its survival to ruthless predation on working folk.

1935: Laura Ingalls Wilder publishes Little House on the Prairie. Libertarians claim her daughter, Rose Wilder Lane, a prominent libertarian author at the time, was the ghostwriter. In 2003 Reason magazine will praise the books for placing "community and commerce—rather than male adventure, escape and violence—at the heart of our national experience."

1944: Austrian School economist F.A. Hayek publishes Road to Serfdom, equating the social democracy of the time to the collectivist tyrannies of fascists and communists. He's ignored by New Dealers but later inspires a new generation of libertarians.

1946: Economist Milton Friedman accepts a teaching job at the University of Chicago and later establishes the Chicago School of Economics. Government adviser, best-selling author, columnist, and Nobel Prize winner, his career becomes a tour de force of free-market evangelism.

1957: Ayn Rand publishes her magnum opus, Atlas Shrugged, guaranteeing a solid market for "Who is John Galt?" T shirts among college objectivist societies for years to come.

1966: Sci-fi writer Robert A. Heinlein releases The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, a libertarian retelling of the American Revolution set on the big cheese. The narrator, a polyandrous computer programmer who rebels against a meddling and incompetent Lunar Authority, appeals to the experimental, fiercely independent mentality of Silicon Valley's emerging generation of techno-libertarian hippies.

1964: Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater loses his bid for the presidency, but instills the Republican Party with fierce anticommunism tempered by moderation on social issues. In later years Goldwater comes out in favor of abortion rights, gays in the military, and medical marijuana.

1968: Reason is founded and grows into the mouthpiece of the modern libertarian movement. It is published under the banner "Free minds and free markets."

1971: The Libertarian Party originates in the Westminster, Colorado living room of advertising executive David Nolan. It will eventually endorse abolishing property taxes, legalizing drugs, and selling off "all publicly owned infrastructures including dams and parks."

1973: With help from the CIA and advice from Chicago School economists, General Augusto Pinochet seizes control of Chile and puts in place radical free-market reforms. He privatizes social programs, curtails trade unions, and begins to eliminate tariffs on imported goods. By the time he is forced out in 1990 a new moneyed class has emerged while the majority of workers earn less (adjusted for inflation) than they did when he took power. Reason will later argue that the economic recovery under the succeeding socialist government was due instead to the "long term benefit" of Pinochet's policies.

1976: Texas obstetrician Ron Paul is elected to the U.S. Congress on a platform of eliminating most of the federal government.

1977: The Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, is founded in San Francisco with funding from oil baron Charles G. Koch. The name comes from Cato's Letters, newspaper articles written by two Englishmen using the pen name Cato the Younger, an allusion to the defender of republicanism in ancient Rome. With a yearly budget of nearly $20 million, Cato defends corporate empires.

1978: Dick Randolph is elected to the Alaska House of Representatives, becoming the first Libertarian to hold state office. He will lead a successful campaign to repeal the state income tax.

1980: Avowed libertarian John Mackey founds Whole Foods in Austin, Texas.

1981: Cato Institute founding board member Murray Rothbard, after accusing his colleagues of watering down their radical libertarian vision to woo voters and shill for corporate donors, is fired. The next year Rothbard joins the new Ludwig von Mises Institute in Auburn, Alabama, which becomes a hotbed of anarcho-capitalism. (See "Libertarian Theology.")

1988: Hustler publisher Larry Flynt fends off evangelist Jerry Falwell's libel case in the Supreme Court. Libertarians cheer.

Ron Paul runs for president on the Libertarian Party ticket, earning less than one half of one percent of the vote.

1993: Founded as the voice of Silicon Valley, Wired heralds the day when technology will make government obsolete.

1994: Beatnik poet William S. Burroughs accepts a TV spot hawking sneakers for Nike.

1995: Libertarian businessman Jeff Bezos founds Amazon.com, becoming the tech boom's John Galt.

1997: The first episode of South Park, "Cartman Gets an Anal Probe," airs on Comedy Central. Police officer Barbrady doesn't think it unusual that cows have been turned inside out, and Mr. Garrison, a schoolteacher, uses a puppet to tell a student: "You go to hell! You go to hell and you die!" The show's tales of authority gone awry inspire a generation of "South Park Conservatives."

1996: Journalist Paulina Borsook publishes "Cyberselfish" in the pages of Mother Jones (and later, as an eponymous book), blaming libertarians for creating a moral vacuum inside the tech bubble.

1998: Comedian and avowed libertarian Drew Carey lights a cigarette in a bar to protest California's anti-smoking law, inspiring a backlash against the "Nanny State."

1999: "I am a libertarian," Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, elected in a third-party bid as the Reform Party candidate, tells Reason. "I've taken the libertarian exam [a query of views on libertarian issues] and scored perfect on it." In later years libertarians won't give his record such stellar marks.

Believing that the Y2K virus could cause the collapse of Western civilization and an outbreak of pandemics, Stan Jones, a perennial libertarian candidate in Montana, imbibes a solution of ionic silver to fortify his immune system. The resulting chemical reactions turn his skin blue.

2006: In a race against Senator Conrad Burns of Montana, Jones earns 3 percent of the don't-tread-on-me vote, which throws the election to Democrat Jon Tester and hands the U.S. Senate to the Democrats.

The war on terror gives small-government conservatives sticker shock; compared to 2004, the Republican margin among libertarians drops 24 percent.

2007: Presidential candidate Ron Paul inveighs against the Iraq War in the Republican primary debates; his November 5 "money bomb" rakes in $4 million, breaking the single-day online fundraising record for a presidential primary.
happymisanthropy
Ha ha John Galt.
seuss
QUOTE(happymisanthropy @ Monday, 17 December 2007, 9:19 pm) *
Ha ha John Galt.

that name sounds familiar... who's john galt?
sky of mind
That's a very interesting time line.
But what does it mean?
happymisanthropy
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Monday, 17 December 2007, 8:47 pm) *
That's a very interesting time line.
But what does it mean?


It means that telling rich people that greed is good is an old and venerated profession.

Edit to add:

Douglas Adams
QUOTE
He knew he was going through that part of the city where people's plans often changed quite abruptly.

"Do you want to have a good time?" said a voice from a doorway.

"As far as I can tell," said Ford, "I'm having one. Thanks."

"Are you rich?" said another.

This made Ford laugh.

He turned and opened his arms in a wide gesture. "Do I look rich?" he said.

"Don't know," said the girl. "Maybe, maybe not. Maybe you'll get rich. I have a very special service for rich people ..."

"Oh yes?" said Ford, intrigued but careful. "And what's that?"

"I tell them it's OK to be rich."

Gunfire erupted from a window high above them, but it was only a bass player getting shot for playing the wrong riff three times in a row, and bass players are two a penny in Han Dold City.

Ford stopped and peered into the dark doorway.

"You what?" he said.

The girl laughed and stepped forward a little out of the shadow. She was tall, and had that kind of self-possessed shyness which is a great trick if you can do it.

"It's my big number," she said. "I have a Master's degree in Social Economics and can be very convincing. People love it. Especially in this city."

...

Walking north he again passed a steel grey limousine parked by the kerbside, and from a nearby doorway he heard a soft voice saying, "It's OK, honey, it's really OK, you got to learn to feel good about it. Look at the way the whole economy is structured ...
"
sky of mind
QUOTE(happymisanthropy @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 12:34 pm) *
It means that telling rich people that greed is good is an old and venerated profession.



This is the story of Libertarianism?????
Selfish, Self Important, Rich people tend to be Libertarian?

Ron Paul is a Libertarian??? eek.gif



seuss
i honestly believe Ron Paul has the best interest of the country in mind, other than the abortion issue. I think he wishes he were born back before the civil war. if he had been, we might have a different situation now. I don't think he's the type that believes that the wealthy desrve it, and the rest of us can go get fucked (to follow the adams analogy, believe it or not,) I believe in his desire to return the founding father's ideals, but I think he's off the mark on the incremental change it would take to institue it. Paul and Galt should have a gay marriage, and see what happens to his poll numbers.
sky of mind
QUOTE(seuss @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 12:52 pm) *
i honestly believe Ron Paul has the best interest of the country in mind,.



Ron Paul does but Hillary Clinton does not?
happymisanthropy
QUOTE(seuss @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 12:52 pm) *
i honestly believe Ron Paul has the best interest of the country in mind, other than the abortion issue. I think he wishes he were born back before the civil war. if he had been, we might have a different situation now. I don't think he's the type that believes that the wealthy desrve it, and the rest of us can go get fucked (to follow the adams analogy, believe it or not,) I believe in his desire to return the founding father's ideals, but I think he's off the mark on the incremental change it would take to institue it. Paul and Galt should have a gay marriage, and see what happens to his poll numbers.


This isn't an R.P. thread.
seuss
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 3:56 pm) *
Ron Paul does but Hillary Clinton does not?


hillary clintoon has her contributors and whatever special interests she panders to in mind. other than the anti-abortion lobby, whose special interest can you actually support with documentation that paul is supporting?
karen
QUOTE(happymisanthropy @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 3:00 pm) *
This isn't an R.P. thread.


That remains to be seen... wink.gif
sky of mind
QUOTE(seuss @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 1:04 pm) *
hillary clintoon has her contributors and whatever special interests she panders to in mind. other than the anti-abortion lobby, whose special interest can you actually support with documentation that paul is supporting?




So your saying that Hillary panders but Ron Paul doesn't?
sky of mind
QUOTE(karen @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 2:46 pm) *
That remains to be seen... wink.gif




Temporary tangent.

The thread is about Libertarians and Paul is a Libertarian
karen
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 4:58 pm) *
Temporary tangent.

The thread is about Libertarians and Paul is a Libertarian


My post stands!
What say you, HighStreet? unsure.gif








Giggle, giggle, giggle! laugh.gif
sky of mind
QUOTE(karen @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 3:51 pm) *
My post stands!
What say you, HighStreet? unsure.gif
Giggle, giggle, giggle! laugh.gif




Actually my question to Seuss wasn't really about Paul.
The question was why the same standards don't apply equally.

Paul came into the discussion because he is a Libertarian running on a Republican ticket,
and I have a pretty good idea what Seuss thinks of Hillary.

anyway, that's my story, and I'm stickin to it!



BTW. Every politician panders. That's as basic as getting reelected when you're unpopular.
Rousseau
Frankly, Sky, I'm shocked that you could be so cynical. "Every politician panders. That's as basic as getting reelected when you're unpopular."

And there was me thinking people went into politics because they believed in helping their fellow citizens build a better world...... rolleyes.gif


Actually, on topic, I find the libertarians kind of odd, but encouraging at the same time. It's hard to pin down just what a libertarian actually stands for, because their beliefs and thought structure seems so influenced by their social environment. If Dr Ron Who is a libertarian, that's a bit scary......
Highstreet
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 3:56 pm) *
Ron Paul does but Hillary Clinton does not?

Yes.

And the fact that you cannot see that is disturbing.
Highstreet
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 5:56 pm) *
So your saying that Hillary panders but Ron Paul doesn't?



She asked you a question.

Which one can you point to that he panders to?

You really need to wake up to what your "leaders" do.
Highstreet
QUOTE(Rousseau @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 2:50 am) *
Frankly, Sky, I'm shocked that you could be so cynical. "Every politician panders. That's as basic as getting reelected when you're unpopular."

And there was me thinking people went into politics because they believed in helping their fellow citizens build a better world...... rolleyes.gif
Actually, on topic, I find the libertarians kind of odd, but encouraging at the same time. It's hard to pin down just what a libertarian actually stands for, because their beliefs and thought structure seems so influenced by their social environment. If Dr Ron Who is a libertarian, that's a bit scary......


I really don't want to make this about him, but I am curious. What do you find scary?
sky of mind
QUOTE(Rousseau @ Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 11:50 pm) *
I find the libertarians kind of odd, but encouraging at the same time. It's hard to pin down just what a libertarian actually stands for, because their beliefs and thought structure seems so influenced by their social environment. If Dr Ron Who is a libertarian, that's a bit scary......



QUOTE
1971: The Libertarian Party originates in the Westminster, Colorado living room of advertising executive David Nolan. It will eventually endorse abolishing property taxes, legalizing drugs, and selling off "all publicly owned infrastructures including dams and parks."

snip

1976: Texas obstetrician Ron Paul is elected to the U.S. Congress on a platform of eliminating most of the federal government.

snip

1988: Hustler publisher Larry Flynt fends off evangelist Jerry Falwell's libel case in the Supreme Court. Libertarians cheer.

Ron Paul runs for president on the Libertarian Party ticket, earning less than one half of one percent of the vote.



Now the Libertarians have a libertarian issue that can attract people from both ends of the spectrum.
The war in Iraq. (there, and I didn't thread drift by dropping any names, aren't ya proud of me?)
Highstreet
QUOTE(POAC @ Monday, 17 December 2007, 7:07 pm) *



I am wondering why they decided to throw Pinochet in there. That was disingenuous of them. Pinochet was a brutal dictator who implemented whatever he wanted. It could hardly be called Free Market.

And Rothbard was right about CATO, they do just shill for Corporations and leave the people out in the cold, hardly a libertarian, conserative, or liberal value.
karen
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 9:06 am) *
Now the Libertarians have a libertarian issue that can attract people from both ends of the spectrum.
The war in Iraq. (there, and I didn't thread drift by dropping any names, aren't ya proud of me?)

Yes, very! And, as a reward, I offer a couple of day's off work next week free and gratis! biggrin.gif
sky of mind
QUOTE(karen @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 7:15 am) *
Yes, very! And, as a reward, I offer a couple of day's off work next week free and gratis! biggrin.gif



Why thank you! Mind if I just go ahead and take the whole week? thumbup.gif

Free and Gratis? Oh hell no! They gonna pay me to do nothing!
karen
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 9:21 am) *
Why thank you! Mind if I just go ahead and take the whole week? thumbup.gif

Free and Gratis? Oh hell no! They gonna pay me to do nothing!


Hell, take the whole of next year! Grow food, sell the surplus, build a wind turbine and a compost toilet! Then never go back to work again - ever! biggrin.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
Highstreet
QUOTE(karen @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 12:37 pm) *
Hell, take the whole of next year! Grow food, sell the surplus, build a wind turbine and a compost toilet! Then never go back to work again - ever! biggrin.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif



Good plan, I have been attempting this for quite a while. The process is a lot slower than you would think.
karen
QUOTE(Highstreet @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 4:53 pm) *
Good plan, I have been attempting this for quite a while. The process is a lot slower than you would think.

Oh, believe me, I know. And living in a city makes the process that much more difficult! - But one day full independence will be mine... Muhaha! wink.gif
sky of mind
QUOTE(karen @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 9:37 am) *
Hell, take the whole of next year! Grow food, sell the surplus, build a wind turbine and a compost toilet! Then never go back to work again - ever! biggrin.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif





I might like the idea, but it's not possible.
You see, in this country we don't have universal health coverage.
This means that not only am I a slave for the wage, I'm also a slave for the insurance!
karen
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Wednesday, 19 December 2007, 9:13 pm) *
I might like the idea, but it's not possible.
You see, in this country we don't have universal health coverage.
This means that not only am I a slave for the wage, I'm also a slave for the insurance!


Don't medicate, meditate! laugh.gif LOL laugh.gif

Oh, and if you break a bone (baring in mind you wil be in perfect health because of the meditation) just mock-up a splint from a bit of recycled trash! biggrin.gif





Sorry! laugh.gif rolleyes.gif
Libertas
QUOTE
1849: 148 years before the founding of Blackwater, Gustave de Molinari reasons, in his economics treatise Les Soirées de la rue Saint-Lazare, that if trade can supply cheap consumer goods, it can also supply military contractors, rendering government unnecessary.

And this is the fatal flaw of what we now consider to be "libertarianism." Though it claims to abhor the use of violence, its entire philosophy enables a "might makes right" world because it argues that all political power is rightly economic, rather than vice versa. Those who succeed in the market are inherently "superior," and if so long as one man can climb the economic ladder, it matters little that 100 fail and are ruined.
sky of mind
QUOTE(Libertas @ Thursday, 20 December 2007, 7:57 pm) *
And this is the fatal flaw of what we now consider to be "libertarianism." Though it claims to abhor the use of violence, its entire philosophy enables a "might makes right" world because it argues that all political power is rightly economic, rather than vice versa. Those who succeed in the market are inherently "superior," and if so long as one man can climb the economic ladder, it matters little that 100 fail and are ruined.




Next step then is militarism.
Because if you succeed, you're gonne need to protect and defend what you have won.
Highstreet
QUOTE(Libertas @ Thursday, 20 December 2007, 10:57 pm) *
And this is the fatal flaw of what we now consider to be "libertarianism." Though it claims to abhor the use of violence, its entire philosophy enables a "might makes right" world because it argues that all political power is rightly economic, rather than vice versa. Those who succeed in the market are inherently "superior," and if so long as one man can climb the economic ladder, it matters little that 100 fail and are ruined.



You are using someone's thought from 1849 to justify that somehow Libertarian thought would promote more Corporatism and Military Industrial Complex.

You should really try listening to Paul's words.

He is one of the few leaders we have who speaks out against the collusion of Big Business and Govt. rolleyes.gif
Rousseau
Which is noble and good.
I'm glad.
Forgive me, though, if I remain sceptic.

It all sounds so utopic, OK, a kind of right-wing quasi fascist utopia (a 6000 year reich ?), but I truly don't see Dr Paul standing up to the military industrial complex, at least no more than the Democrats, although I guess he'd give AIPAC a bit of a fright....
sky of mind
QUOTE(Rousseau @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 1:01 pm) *
Which is noble and good.
I'm glad.
Forgive me, though, if I remain sceptic.

It all sounds so utopic, OK, a kind of right-wing quasi fascist utopia (a 6000 year reich ?), but I truly don't see Dr Paul standing up to the military industrial complex, at least no more than the Democrats, although I guess he'd give AIPAC a bit of a fright....




Listen to the word of Paul!
Accept him into your heart.
Are you one of us brother?
seuss
QUOTE(Highstreet @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 3:35 pm) *
You are using someone's thought from 1849 to justify that somehow Libertarian thought would promote more Corporatism and Military Industrial Complex.

You should really try listening to Paul's words.

He is one of the few leaders we have who speaks out against the collusion of Big Business and Govt. rolleyes.gif

but he chose to run in the party that he has to lie to.

I'll stick him in the same tide pool bucket with john stewart and stephen colbert...

If they decide that they'll tell the truth in the next year (as either a third party candidate, or as a subversive element advocating for the writers,) I'll release them back into the wild...

If not, I'll keep them in a drained bucket in the back yard until their stench subsides, then I'll use them as trophies that I'll give to my daughter to use in her school project documenting the death of American democracy.

it'll be a cute little diorama, where pieces of American hopes are splattered on the wall in an amalgamation of both Lincoln and JFK's brains painted on the wall behind Kucinich's head, as a GI Joe holds a pistol next to his third eye.
Highstreet
POAC and anyone else who wants to understand current Libertarian thought

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/

These are the topic headings, and link to his own words, writings, and thoughts on the subjects:

The War in Iraq

Ron Paul Taxes

Ron Paul Health Care

Ron Paul Abortion and Stem Cell Research

Ron Paul The September 11 Attacks

Ron Paul Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Ron Paul The War on Drugs

Ron Paul The War on Terror

Ron Paul Border Security and Immigration Reform

Ron Paul Freedom and Personal Liberty

Ron Paul The Economy and Monetary Policy

Ron Paul Education

Ron Paul The National ID Card


Ron Paul China

Ron Paul American Independence and Sovereignty

Ron Paul The Role of Government

Ron Paul U.S. Foreign Policy

Ron Paul The Federal Budget and Spending

Ron Paul Social Security

Ron Paul Defending the Constitution

Ron Paul The Draft

Ron Paul Free Trade

Ron Paul Privacy

Ron Paul Property Rights and Eminent Domain

Ron Paul Campaign Finance Reform

Ron Paul Other Topics
Highstreet
QUOTE(seuss @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 6:19 pm) *
but he chose to run in the party that he has to lie to.

What are you talking about?
seuss
QUOTE(Highstreet @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 6:54 pm) *
What are you talking about?



If he's a libertarian, he has to lie to the republicans... haven't you read anything I've written since you started getting defensive, or have you just come off as a reactionary?
Highstreet
QUOTE(Rousseau @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 4:01 pm) *
Which is noble and good.
I'm glad.
Forgive me, though, if I remain sceptic.

It all sounds so utopic, OK, a kind of right-wing quasi fascist utopia (a 6000 year reich ?), but I truly don't see Dr Paul standing up to the military industrial complex, at least no more than the Democrats, although I guess he'd give AIPAC a bit of a fright....


His first answer speaks to it in the first 2 min:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMfLo0fuQq0


Statements regarding entering the Iraq war:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul369.html

"Special interests and the demented philosophy of conquest have driven most wars throughout history. Rarely has the cause of liberty, as it was in our own revolution, been the driving force. In recent decades our policies have been driven by neo-conservative empire radicalism, profiteering in the military industrial complex, misplaced do-good internationalism, mercantilistic notions regarding the need to control natural resources, and blind loyalty to various governments in the Middle East."

Video of Eisenhower's speech, and Paul's speech:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XKJUIuy7cwU

There's more if you would like.
Highstreet
QUOTE(seuss @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 7:02 pm) *
If he's a libertarian, he has to lie to the republicans... haven't you read anything I've written since you started getting defensive, or have you just come off as a reactionary?



I have read everything you posted.

Why do you think he is lying to Republicans? He has been elected by Republicans to a Republican House seat 10 times.

edit to add:

Are you talking about the "evolution" question from the other thread?
sky of mind
QUOTE(Highstreet @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 3:52 pm) *
POAC and anyone else who wants to understand current Libertarian thought

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/

These are the topic headings, and link to his own words, writings, and thoughts on the subjects:

The War in Iraq

Ron Paul Taxes

Ron Paul Health Care

Ron Paul Abortion and Stem Cell Research

Ron Paul The September 11 Attacks

Ron Paul on Creative Design

Ron Paul Gun Control and the Second Amendment

Ron Paul The War on Drugs

Ron Paul The War on Terror

Ron Paul Border Security and Immigration Reform

Ron Paul Freedom and Personal Liberty

Ron Paul The Economy and Monetary Policy

Ron Paul Education

Ron Paul The National ID Card

Ron Paul Accepting Funds, Support and Endorsements From White Supremists.

Ron Paul China

Ron Paul American Independence and Sovereignty

Ron Paul The Role of Government

Ron Paul U.S. Foreign Policy

Ron Paul The Federal Budget and Spending

Ron Paul Social Security

Ron Paul Defending the Constitution

Ron Paul The Draft

Ron Paul Free Trade

Ron Paul Privacy

Ron Paul Property Rights and Eminent Domain

Ron Paul Campaign Finance Reform

Ron Paul Other Topics




There, fixed that for ya thumbup.gif

Hyuk hyuk hyuk
Libertas
QUOTE(Highstreet @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 12:35 pm) *
You are using someone's thought from 1849 to justify that somehow Libertarian thought would promote more Corporatism and Military Industrial Complex.

You should really try listening to Paul's words.

He is one of the few leaders we have who speaks out against the collusion of Big Business and Govt. rolleyes.gif

The collusion of business and government is inevitable, because of the inherent desire for power and susceptibility to corruption that all liberal/libertarian thinkers acknowledge that people have. Those with money have the desire for power, and those who have been given power want more, which they can only achieve through an alliance with money. The Federalists and Republicans understood this well, and actually think it makes for good government. Liberals acknowledge this principle, but think it's the antithesis of good government, and libertarians stick their heads in the sand and make ridiculous statements like "separation of government and business."

Particularly when there is a large reliance on the private sector for military applications, militaristic corporatism (which can degenerate into that "F" word) is inevitable. States without a large standing army have a legitimate shot at libertarianism, but States that require a large military apparatus will frequently gravitate toward increasingly authoritarian forms of government. Any student of history should be able to see a strong correlation, if not causation, between these two factors.
POAC
I have a hard time respecting a doctor who doesn't understand evolution.
I do like what he said about the neo-nazi donations: "Why the hell would I donate it back to them?"


QUOTE
POAC and anyone else who wants to understand current Libertarian thought


I think that's more of a list on Ron Paul's take on libertarian thought. A better place to understand libertarian thought, as a whole, would be lewrockwell.com.
For the loony side of libertarianism, the Ludwig von Mises Institute Home is a fun place to peruse. That place is chock full of the disconnect from reality necessary to be a Misean libertarian.


Highstreet
QUOTE(POAC @ Saturday, 22 December 2007, 2:23 pm) *
I have a hard time respecting a doctor who doesn't understand evolution.
I do like what he said about the neo-nazi donations: "Why the hell would I donate it back to them?"


I think that's more of a list on Ron Paul's take on libertarian thought. A better place to understand libertarian thought, as a whole, would be lewrockwell.com.
For the loony side of libertarianism, the Ludwig von Mises Institute Home is a fun place to peruse. That place is chock full of the disconnect from reality necessary to be a Misean libertarian.


Why would you assume he doesn't understand evolution? It's not as if he qualified that statement.

The very nature of science is that it is always being changed and perfected. New information comes in many forms, and has to be assimilated into the current scientific beliefs. The current understanding of evolution could easily change tomorrow when the next big find changes the paradigm again.

I am also curious if your Respect is based on having Mutual beliefs? Or do you have the ability to imagine another person's perspective and why they might hold their beliefs to be correct?
Highstreet
QUOTE(Libertas @ Friday, 21 December 2007, 10:40 pm) *
The collusion of business and government is inevitable, because of the inherent desire for power and susceptibility to corruption that all liberal/libertarian thinkers acknowledge that people have. Those with money have the desire for power, and those who have been given power want more, which they can only achieve through an alliance with money.

I agree with you to a degree, here. I think if there is less money in Govt, then there is less ability for the 2 to collude.
QUOTE
The Federalists and Republicans understood this well, and actually think it makes for good government. Liberals acknowledge this principle, but think it's the antithesis of good government, and libertarians stick their heads in the sand and make ridiculous statements like "separation of government and business."

I don't know why you make these generalizations. They are your opinion, and I would disagree that it is a Party difference. From my own experiences in life, it is a class difference.

The Elites in both parties think it is good for govt. The common people, members of all parties, tend to think it is terrible for Govt, as evidenced by the continual corruption.

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Particularly when there is a large reliance on the private sector for military applications, militaristic corporatism (which can degenerate into that "F" word) is inevitable. States without a large standing army have a legitimate shot at libertarianism, but States that require a large military apparatus will frequently gravitate toward increasingly authoritarian forms of government. Any student of history should be able to see a strong correlation, if not causation, between these two factors.

This Military Industrial Complex has been warned about by many of our leaders thoughout history, including the President who began the Standing Army.
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