It feels like a night to knock out some polls.

I see the Libertarians have already voted

What? Libertarians! Kill 'em!

Who in the hell would be stupid enough to vote for that idiot ron paul?

Me and 431,749 others did, back in 1988.

You should be careful throwing words like "stupid" and "idiot" at people. They tend to apply better to those who use them.

Something learned in drivers ed, that later in life I learned ALWAYS applies........

Always leave yourself an out.


Using such words defines how to paint yourself into a corner.

Don't worry, I will save you from that dirty, new york wallet thief.

And get our troops out of Iraq, all in one vote.

I don't think they are all Libertarians.

See, compared to Hillary, .......Paul is a Moderate.

No, Paul is firmly right wing.
Just because he's not a neo-con and has never been a member of the PNAC does not make him a moderate.
If you consider Paul a moderate, then Kucinich is posatively mainstream!

Their platforms are so close, it isn't funny. The only difference is Kucinich's Big Govt programs and Pauls removal of those programs.

And they are both more moderate than any of the Top tier in either party.

I will agree paul is a moderate, and Id rather have him than almost any other republican (except mccain).

But, hes still a chode.

And loves jesus way too much for my tastes.

That is NOT the only difference. Dennis Kucinich supports a woman's right to her own bodily autonomy. Dennis Kucinich supports
full equality for our gay bretheren. Dennis Kucinich is not a Christian nutcase. Dennis Kucinich is not a chode.

Ron Paul is a faux libertarian, a religious nutcase, and a chode.

Yet he is winning our little poll here. By the way, why are all the old people here using the word "chode"? Do you guys even know what a chode is?

Yeah, i know what it is.

Dictionary: Chode:

greenguy,

Why don't you like the Constitution.

It says there shall be no religious test for those seeking office.

This is funny:

Hillary's expert DoubleSpeak video

Paul supports full equality for all Brothers and Sisters, not just those from specific groups.

..and there was me thinking a chode was just a kind of vegetable....

He is a "chode" just because you don't agree with him? I agree with some of what he says and not with other things. However, when he says something i don't agree with i don't think "he is just being a dick right now." His ideology has some differences from mine but i think he is sincere in his beliefs and motives. I don't think he is saying what he is saying just as a way to trick people or to get money or is some kind of power hungry psychopath. This isn't like a person who acts like a Jesus freak but only uses that to con people as a way to get millions of dollars.

So maybe you disagree with him but that doesn't mean he is the evil douche bag you are making him out to be.

Agreed, except to add that the idea Ron Paul isn't a Politician like all politicians, is delusional at best.
Once upon a time a large number of people in this country said many of the same things about GWB, and how well has that worked out? To deny the things he says and stands for that are hurtful and negative simply because you like some of the other things he says is to choose to be delibertely ignorant. Whould such a thing be acceptable when considering Hillary's politics?

Ron Paul does have some good points to talk about, and I'm very glad that he's there and put these things into the idscussion. However, that said, does not mean I accept him as some sort of Republican Messiah come to save the conservatives! (and america)

He's a Republican Politician. Period!
The fact that he's not a neo-con rubber stamper does not remove the plain simple fact that he's also a right winger with qualifications enough to satisify even the John Birch Society!

Ron Paul is not a Republican Messiah.
Ron Paul is a Republican Politician.

Who said that he was? It isn't about saving the republicans. It is about telling the truth and finally having a politician not just telling people what they want to hear but actually getting up there and saying what needs to be said.



So? Are all republicans evil? If he was a democrat or still an independent would that make him any different? Just because he is a member of the republican party doesn't mean we can't listen to what he has to say or he has some major flaw. He is less of a republican than most democrats.

oohh...nice strawman.

I can give ANYONE a religious test if I wish. I am not forbidden from doing so, but the government it. So perhaps you should learn the constitution before criticizing others on it.


Secondly, I fear he will rule on the basis of faith, and not reason. This is a violation of the 14th and obviously the 1st amendment.

Our government need to become absolutely secular, and Ron Paul will not help to achieve this.

Yes. they're all evil.


As I have said several times already.
Ron Paul says some good things, and i'm glad those things are in the dialoge.
But, Ron Paul ALSO enjoys the full support of people such as the John Birch Society. People that I have personally had some experience with. This means they like Ron Paul too, and if the Birchers like Ron Paul, I gotta ask myself why? Then I listen to or read some of the things he says that the Paulists don't wish to talk about. And these things reminded me that Ron Paul is a Republican Politician.

Yes, Ron Paul says many good things. But this does not enable me to ignore the fact that the JBS rates this man at 100%. The fact that Paul says good things does not enable to to ignore the other things, things that I consider absolutely unacceptable. These unnacceptable things that the Paulists keep trying to tell me are not as they seem, because obviously I'm stupid or nuts or both for not seeing RP as somthing other than or greater than what he really is, A Republican Politician!

And btw. Ron Paul is as much a Republican as they come. He's views that the Paulists don't wish to confirm as real, are as right wing as any winger can be. Again, the JBS like this guy 100%. You just don't get any more right wing than that! And when RP was asked about that, he was perfectly cool with it. Why? Because he's a Republican Politician!

Well put.

Would you judge Mitt because of his Morman beliefs, or that Muslim Representative who made so many headlines?

I would hope not.

Good luck getting our govt to "become" secular. Please expand on what you mean. Because I have a feeling that it is an unrealistic expectation, considering about 95% of Americans claim some religion or another.

Yep

Why not? I think its clear that religion can influence a persons behavior.



Not necessairly the actors, but all of the policies.

As for 95%, its more like 90. But its a sad figure nonetheless.

I am glad you are such a judgmental person. I wouldn't want you to claim tolerance, even if it was tolerance for those who don't deserve it.

Please......What things do you allude to? Please, because despite your claim, we are not afraid to talk about his positions.

When was the last law/policy made that was religious?

========================

Sad? Don't underestimate the intelligence of those of religious affiliation.

Every anti-abortion law. Anti-gay laws. Of course they dont SAY its religious but its quite clear thats where the ideas originated.

We could also argue much of the war is based upon religion.

Faith-based initiatives are another.



Its their motives that worry me.

I'd like to see statistics to back up that statement.

I asked for that some time ago.
Now I suspect he's gonna post a link and state that he already did.

Maybe he'll invent some fiction about a strawman. He will, however, claim that he answers all of our questions. That's not true, of course, but he'll claim it.

What the Heck.

You are just angry with reality. You should try arguing with gravity sometime.

even NYGreenGuy agreed that it is true, but closer to 90%.

Which question did I not answer?

Please post it here or in another thread.

I will be waiting to answer.

Denying that a thing didn't happen, doesn't mean that it didn't.
It only means you are denying it.

Again, just because you trhink a thing is so, does not mean that it is,
anymore than my belief that you're a fruit cake is the truth.

I didnt think its ever been controversial that america is overwhelmingly religious. While it may not be to an exact sect or denomination, it is to a religion of some sorts.

Hell, over 50% of the US population ACTUALLY believe the earth was created in 6 literal 24 hour time periods and that noahs ark is real....

Its just....well...awful.

You make a claim - you back it up. That's how it works. If you can't - you should stop spouting opinion as fact.

Butch up.

Where are the statistics I asked for - on this very thread??

You run away every time - claiming anger, strawment, erectile dysfunction - some excuse ANY excuse not to answer my questions.

I think we should just give up arguing , his mind has been consumed by Ron Paul's "Go ahead, be selfish, and ignore the world" campaign.

That 50% claim seems a little high to me. I don't know anyone who believes that, except some kooks in a small fraction of the Christian community, and by your number half my friends should believe it.

You really need to calm down. It's not a very important Stat in the whole scheme. And your desire to to arrogantly prove me wrong at every turn is getting old.

Polling Point on Religion

"For each of the following items I am going to read you, please tell me whether it is something you believe in, something you're not sure about, or something you don't believe in. . . ." N=500, MoE ± 5 (Form A)


.
______________Believe In ___Not Sure_____Don't
___________________________________ Believe In_____Unsure
_________________%_________ % __________%________ %


God


5/10-13/07
_________________86 _________8 __________ 6_________-


5/2-4/04
_________________90__________5___________4_________ 1


=====================================
or this:
"Which of the following statements comes closest to your belief about God: you believe in God, you don't believe in God but you do believe in a universal spirit or higher power, or you don't believe in either?" N=503, MoE ± 5 (Form


.
____________God_______Universal
_____________________Spirit/Higher
________________________Power _______Neither___Other (vol.)___Unsure
_____________%___________% __________%_________%_________%
5/10-13/07____78___________14__________7__________- _________1
5/2-4/04______81___________13__________5__________ -_________1
12/9-12/99____86____________8__________5___________1________-
====================================================

Looks like GreenGuy is closer on the strict "God" description.

And it is closer to 92% when you include "Universal Higher power".

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99945,00.html

What bothers me is that this point was an obvious one, and to sit around and try to challenge obvious points shows that the challenger isnt serious about having a debate and instead cares more about somehow discrediting or smearing the person for who they are challenging.

I think highstreet seems to be taking the brunt of ad homs here and no one cares about debating him anymore and only care about insulting him.

Exactly.

And for a couple people, this was their treatment from the get go. Then they complain when I give them equal treatment back.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Highstreet continually offers up all kinds of numbers and opinions - presented as fact, with no substantiation.
A basic fact of internet debate is that the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim. Couple that with his propensity for running away from questions/issues that are too tough for him, and you might begin to see WHY he's getting insulted.

It is nice of you to absolve him of responsibility for his own behavior.

Butch up.

Ok, but if i say most people in america are white, would you complain or challenge that? Seriously? Debates will go nowhere if we cant/dont make a few basic assumptions.

Sure, and another 'basic fact' is some things are clearly obvious. And i think its clear his claim was obvious.

Actually im criticizing you for failing to follow the simple rules of "internet debate".

And thank you for STILL not admitting that I was correct. And that I POSTED the link AND the info backing up my post.

And then you continue to lie about MY behavior.

Take your own advice.

I don't need your pity. I wasn't complaining. I was stating a fact.