Full Version: Fed Up Ohio Voters Call On Kerry To "un-concede"
| QUOTE |
Ohio voters tell of Election Day troubles at hearing Sunday, November 14, 2004 Reginald Fields Cleveland Plain Dealer Bureau Columbus Tales of waiting more than five hours to vote, voter intimidation, under-trained polling-station workers and too few or broken voting machines largely in urban or heavily minority areas were retold Saturday at a public hearing organized by voter-rights groups. For three hours, burdened voters, one after another, offered sworn testimony about Election Day voter suppression and irregularities that they believe are threatening democracy. The hearing, sponsored by the Election Protection Coalition, was to collect testimony of voting troubles that might be used to seek legislative changes to Ohio's election process. The organizers chose Ohio because it was a swing state in the presidential election as well as the site of numerous claims of election fraud and voter disenfranchisement. "I think a lot of us had a sense that something had deeply went wrong on Nov. 2 and it had to do with the election process and procedures in place that were unacceptable," said Amy Kaplan, one of the hearing's coordinators. Kaplan said the hearing gave everyday citizens a chance to have their concerns placed into public record. Both a written and video report on the hearing will be provided to anyone who wants a copy, especially state lawmakers who are considering mandating Election Day changes, Kaplan said. Many of the voters who testified were clearly Democrats who wonder if their losing presidential candidate, Sen. John Kerry, was able to draw all the votes that were intended for him. "I call on Sen. Kerry to un-concede until there is a full count of the votes," said Werner Lange of Trumbull County, who claimed that polling places in his Northeast Ohio neighborhood had half the number of voting machines that were needed. "This caused a bottleneck at polling stations, and many people left without voting," he said. Others said they were testifying not on political grounds but out of concern for a suspicious election system that should be above reproach. |
Little chance of that for the ambitious Senator, but will he take the necessary steps to ensure a recount? We shall see.
yeah- we'll see. [sigh]
i won't be holding my breath.
-t-
i won't be holding my breath.
-t-
| QUOTE (tamara @ Monday, 15 November 2004, 7:17 am) |
| yeah- we'll see. [sigh] i won't be holding my breath. -t- |
Yeah me either....
'Doc
That would be quite the "flip-flop", eh?
Last thursday the Kerry lawyers moved into Ohio.
What will Kerry do? Nothing untill Ohio certifys its vote, of course. Why do you ask?
Because he has a choice to exercise, or NOT, his right to a recount. He was preempted by the Green Party candidate, but he could do other things within the deadline, such as urging his campaign spokesmen to stop telling the NYT and the Boston Globe and anyone who will listen that a recount won't change the outcome. The New York Times itself has taken the position that the electronic voting machine "irregularities" (to coin an euphemism for fraud) demand a full investigation. Perhaps the Green Party, which has nothing to gain from this recount in terms of its changed outcome was acting as a Kerry stalking horse in Ohio, in which case the Democratic Party owes it big-time.
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Tuesday, 16 November 2004, 9:56 am) |
| Because he has a choice to exercise, or NOT, his right to a recount. He was preempted by the Green Party candidate, but he could do other things within the deadline, such as urging his campaign spokesmen to stop telling the NYT and the Boston Globe and anyone who will listen that a recount won't change the outcome. The New York Times itself has taken the position that the electronic voting machine "irregularities" (to coin an euphemism for fraud) demand a full investigation. Perhaps the Green Party, which has nothing to gain from this recount in terms of its changed outcome was acting as a Kerry stalking horse in Ohio, in which case the Democratic Party owes it big-time. |
Yup, I'm voting green next time, this will me my first time, but they are the only ones with balls. Kerry has lost his backbone and I am so pissed....
Doc
The scary thing to me still is that if these machines are not only left in place but allowed to proliferate across the country your vote in any party really will not matter. This also does not just include the voting machine but also the optical scanners as they still have their votes counted by a central tabulator and that central tabulator is in all likeliehood where this election was hacked from. Kerry refusing to speak up on this issue not only means he will lose this election but that soon after we may lose our Democracy. But I still second your affirmation and will be voting green (if given an option) in the next elections.
The Republican Party and the neo-cons thank you sincerely in advance for your support.
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Tuesday, 16 November 2004, 9:56 am) |
| <SNIP> stop telling the NYT and the Boston Globe and anyone who will listen that a recount won't change the outcome. <SNIP>. |
Could that be role playing?
Then why would Kerry send IT folks to look @ the Hacking @ Black box voting?
The road to victory is clear--and it puts John Kerry in the White House.
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Wednesday, 17 November 2004, 8:40 am) | ||
Could that be role playing? Then why would Kerry send IT folks to look @ the Hacking @ Black box voting? The road to victory is clear--and it puts John Kerry in the White House. |
Yup....
'Doc
Anything else helps Bush retain the White House---that coming from some DEMS--nah I must be dreaming.
When push comes to shove are you folks going to stand up for whats right?
When push comes to shove are you folks going to stand up for whats right?
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Wednesday, 17 November 2004, 9:03 am) |
| Anything else helps Bush retain the White House---that coming from some DEMS--nah I must be dreaming. When push comes to shove are you folks going to stand up for whats right? |
Always have, don't see any reason not to now....
'Doc
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Wednesday, 17 November 2004, 8:40 am) | ||
Could that be role playing? Then why would Kerry send IT folks to look @ the Hacking @ Black box voting? The road to victory is clear--and it puts John Kerry in the White House. |
Nope. Anyone in that position would not knowingly be telling LIES to the NYT or the Boston Globe. Plausible deniability is one of the prime political directives, because what you say publicly can always come back to bite you.
As for Kerry having sent "IT folks to look @ the Hacking @ Black box voting," that's interesting, but do you have a SOURCE or a LINK you can provide for this information other than word of mouth or a posted message?
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Wednesday, 17 November 2004, 9:32 am) | ||||
Nope. Anyone in that position would not knowingly be telling LIES to the NYT or the Boston Globe. Plausible deniability is one of the prime political directives, because what you say publicly can always come back to bite you. As for Kerry having sent "IT folks to look @ the Hacking @ Black box voting," that's interesting, but do you have a SOURCE or a LINK you can provide for this information other than word of mouth or a posted message? |
Randi Rhodes and Mike have mentioned this too....
Doc
IIRC Bev Harris said it. About the hacking and IT folks. While on Randis show.
Well, I don’t listen to Randi regularly, maybe I should. But anyone who listened to Mike’s interview last night with Joan Kravitz from "Help America Recount," one of the online organizations dedicated to investigating the false election results “produced by Republican controlled software and hardware companies on November 2,” got a different impression. Kravitz was asked the very same question by Mike: what had she heard of these reports Kerry was (1) funding some of these efforts from his substantial campaign war chest ($45 million) or (2) that he was working “under the radar,” so to speak. Like everyone else, Mike “heard” of this. Kravitz said quite bluntly that she was unaware of any involvement by the Kerry campaign, she hadn't seen much interest from the Kerry camp and certainly hasn’t seen any funding from the campaign. She went on to say that if Kerry is involved “below the radar” he’s way down below the radar because she hasn’t seen any evidence of his involvement. She hopes they will become more involved now that new information has come to light. She’s also in direct contact with Bev Harris.
Yeah, it was really good to hear that the Kerry campaign has been keeping that low a profile. Best to stay safe while they work on this. They're smart, that's for damn certain! There's no repeating the mistakes Gore made, and no letting Bush outmaneuver the Dems this time. Great news!
She's in a position to know and that's not what she said. Keep dreaming, pal.
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 8:26 am) |
| Well, I don’t listen to Randi regularly, maybe I should. But anyone who listened to Mike’s interview last night with Joan Kravitz from "Help America Recount," one of the online organizations dedicated to investigating the false election results “produced by Republican controlled software and hardware companies on November 2,” got a different impression. Kravitz was asked the very same question by Mike: what had she heard of these reports Kerry was (1) funding some of these efforts from his substantial campaign war chest ($45 million) or (2) that he was working “under the radar,” so to speak. Like everyone else, Mike “heard” of this. Kravitz said quite bluntly that she was unaware of any involvement by the Kerry campaign, she hadn't seen much interest from the Kerry camp and certainly hasn’t seen any funding from the campaign. She went on to say that if Kerry is involved “below the radar” he’s way down below the radar because she hasn’t seen any evidence of his involvement. She hopes they will become more involved now that new information has come to light. She’s also in direct contact with Bev Harris. |
Like Randi says, and I am with you CJ, I think Kerry should be screaming, but Randi says she thinks that Kerry is very much interested in Ohio, but can't go public because of the "war effort", that it has to be up to us as citizens, we have to prove that this election was stolen. She has started that by getting a recount in Ohio. Do I like this "no". Would I do it differently "yes", you all know me I'd be screaming my head off. I hope this works, I want this to work, we as a country can not another four years of Shrub.
Doc
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 8:38 am) |
| She's in a position to know and that's not what she said. Keep dreaming, pal. |
Umm... Neophyte outsider amateur armchair strategist alert!
Clearly she's not in the position to know, as (1) she doesn't know, and (2) she's not affiliated with the campaign's legal efforts.
Keep hallucinating, pal.
Doc, I'm arguing from the evidence that's out there, including the Kerry campaign's statements AND what Kravitz told Mike last night. She was clueless about any Kerry involvement and wasn't being disingenuous either. She's in the thick of this recount and she ought to know.
Everything else is pure speculation and Mike doesn't have any first-hand knowledge either. People are entitled to believe whatever they want, but so far there's no hard evidence to back up that blind faith.
Everything else is pure speculation and Mike doesn't have any first-hand knowledge either. People are entitled to believe whatever they want, but so far there's no hard evidence to back up that blind faith.
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 8:50 am) |
| Umm... Neophyte outsider amateur armchair strategist alert! Clearly she's not in the position to know, as (1) she doesn't know, and (2) she's not affiliated with the campaign's legal efforts. [/quote] |
As if you are. I'm arguing from the FACTS. Show me some. Imbecile.
CJ If you read my outsourced post, you might note I never included that Kerry was funding things---Because it doesnt fit the facts as I know them. because my sources said no.
I dont know where that came from but Mike Malloy does tend to repeat things --with out the research to back them up.
I didnt get recruited for the Kerry campaign, based on that sort of sloppy work.
I was asked to take a paid position based on my wealth of accurate Knowledge.
Hers a site by some photog that happened by-- eve n Hallandale Beach FLorida.
I'm in the top row giving the Victory sign, the rest are some volunteers I recruited
http://www.pbase.com/lautermilch/hallendale
I dont know where that came from but Mike Malloy does tend to repeat things --with out the research to back them up.
I didnt get recruited for the Kerry campaign, based on that sort of sloppy work.
I was asked to take a paid position based on my wealth of accurate Knowledge.
Hers a site by some photog that happened by-- eve n Hallandale Beach FLorida.
I'm in the top row giving the Victory sign, the rest are some volunteers I recruited
http://www.pbase.com/lautermilch/hallendale
Okay, CJ. You think you have even the vaguest clue what you're talking about?
If so, then email Cam Kerry at CKerry@Mintz.com and ask him if the Kerry Campaign and the Democratic Party are doing nothing about the recounts and voter fraud. Ask him yourself.
For those who are smart enough to pay attention to what's actually going on, we already know what's going on.
If so, then email Cam Kerry at CKerry@Mintz.com and ask him if the Kerry Campaign and the Democratic Party are doing nothing about the recounts and voter fraud. Ask him yourself.
For those who are smart enough to pay attention to what's actually going on, we already know what's going on.
| QUOTE |
| I am grateful to the many people who have contacted me to express their deep concern about questions of miscounting, fraud, vote suppression, and other problems on election day, especially in Florida and Ohio. Their concern reflects how much people care about the outcome of this election. I want to you to know we are not ignoring it. Election protection lawyers are still on the job in Ohio and Florida and in DC making sure all the votes are counted accurately. I have been conferring with lawyers involved and have made them aware of the information and concerns people have given me. Even if the facts don't provide a basis to change the outcome, the information will inform the continuing effort to protect the integrity of our elections. If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to vri@dnc.org rather than to me. The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped. It's obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a difference. Their work goes on. Thank you, Cam Kerry |
Can I get an Amen for the Rev.?
Right on Rev. Power to the people--right on!!
Right on Rev. Power to the people--right on!!
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 8:59 am) | ||
| Okay, CJ. You think you have even the vaguest clue what you're talking about? If so, then email Cam Kerry at CKerry@Mintz.com and ask him if the Kerry Campaign and the Democratic Party are doing nothing about the recounts and voter fraud. Ask him yourself. For those who are smart enough to pay attention to what's actually going on, we already know what's going on.
|
Sorry, but I'm not adding to Cam's misery by joining the hysterical e-mailers and hoaxers that are flooding his e-mail address. Shame on you for trying to perpetuate this. Here's what the Boston Globe had to say about Cam's statement:
| QUOTE |
After one e-mailer erroneously suggested that Kerry's brother, Cameron, was compiling reports of voting problems, Cameron Kerry's e-mail inbox was inundated with hundreds of messages, received at the pace of several per minute through yesterday. He sent out a stock response saying ''we are not ignoring" the reports, asking that they be forwarded to the Democratic National Committee instead of his e-mail address at his Boston law firm. Boston Globe, 11/10/04 |
And this Alert from Buzzflash:
| QUOTE |
| A Tallahasse lawyer has checked out the source of the email asking that reports of vote fraud to be sent to Kerry's brother and determined it is a hoax. Not that the email addy(s) were wrong, but that it apparently was a scam to clog the email system at Cam Kerry's law firm. Buzzflash sent out a news alert from Cam Kerry asking that vote fraud reports be sent to the DNC's Voting Rights Institute at vri (at) dnc.org. see - Cameron Kerry: Send Voting Problem Info to DNC - http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/11/ale04089.html |
So, if anyone out there has any REAL information about voting fraud, please don't take RDB's advice and further torment Cam Kerry, but send your report to the DNC's Voting Rights Institute @ vri @ dnc.org, PER CAM KERRY'S REQUEST.
| QUOTE (Count Jeronimo @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 10:00 am) |
| please don't take RDB's advice |
And what advice would that be--I seemed to have missed that post ---wait--- I'll use the search feature--I'll find it--give me a minute, just a minute---hmmmmmmm
The Rev asked folks to E-mail Cam if anything was being done.
Cams e-mail said if you have info on voting probs to e-mail them to the DNC
Oh gee those are 2 different things CJ---you tricked me--I feel so let down
*Roj goes running down hallway sobbing hysterically*
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Umm... Neophyte outsider amateur armchair strategist alert! Look, everybody, CJ is trying to fool people into thinking he knows what he's talking about again!
The hoax was when some right-wingers tried to get Cam Kerry's email flooded by spreading a story that he was personally collecting the information about vote fraud.
The message from Cam Kerry was posted in response to that hoax, and is absolutely genuine. All the information in that message is absolutely authentic.
The hoax was when some right-wingers tried to get Cam Kerry's email flooded by spreading a story that he was personally collecting the information about vote fraud.
The message from Cam Kerry was posted in response to that hoax, and is absolutely genuine. All the information in that message is absolutely authentic.
| QUOTE |
| I am grateful to the many people who have contacted me to express their deep concern about questions of miscounting, fraud, vote suppression, and other problems on election day, especially in Florida and Ohio. Their concern reflects how much people care about the outcome of this election. I want to you to know we are not ignoring it. Election protection lawyers are still on the job in Ohio and Florida and in DC making sure all the votes are counted accurately. I have been conferring with lawyers involved and have made them aware of the information and concerns people have given me. Even if the facts don't provide a basis to change the outcome, the information will inform the continuing effort to protect the integrity of our elections. If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to vri@dnc.org rather than to me. The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped. It's obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a difference. Their work goes on. Thank you, Cam Kerry |
Feel free to ignore the parts I marked in bold, since they reveal you as willfully ignorant and arrogantly clueless. If you paid any attention to those facts I've highlighted, you'd realise your desperate struggle to cling to despair is a losing battle.
Now, since you have spinelessly wiggled and twisted your way out of my challenge, here it is again:
You think you have even the vaguest clue what you're talking about?
If so, then email Cam Kerry at CKerry@Mintz.com and ask him if the Kerry Campaign and the Democratic Party are doing nothing about the recounts and voter fraud. Ask him yourself.
Take the challenge, or else shut the fuck up. You're only proving that you have no idea what's really going on, and you aren't even willing to find out.
F*CK YOU, DAY-BU. CAM KERRY HAS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED THAT HIS E-MAIL ADDRESS NOT BE INUNDATED BY THESE REPORTS, AS REPORTED BY THE BOSTON GLOBE AND HAS ASKED THAT THESE REPORTS BE SENT TO ADDRESS WHICH HE PROVIDES IN HIS MESSAGE. PERIOD.
| QUOTE |
| If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to vri@dnc.org rather than to me. |
UNLIKE YOU, I’LL RESPECT HIS WISHES. AND STFU ALREADY, POMPOUS TWIT, BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A SHRED OF REAL INFORMATION ON THIS TO BE CONTRIBUTING TO CAM KERRY, LET ALONE THIS DISCUSSION.
| QUOTE |
| FUCK YOU, DAY-BU blah blah blah |
Hehe... You calling me the pompous twit and claiming that I don't have a shred of real information! That's pretty funny!
I like how you start typing in LARGE CAPS when you're dead wrong and aren't tough enough to admit it. It's kinda cute, in a sad way.
You're entitled to believe whatever speculation you wish, pal. You're nothing but bluster.
What's sad is you don't have the balls to directly address any of the factual information I've laid out, including Kerry campaign statements from top-level officials, which could charitably be construed as lies if they're engaged in a "smart" effort at disinformation to out-Rove Rove, and if Cam's statement, as one of the opinion pieces you cling to was a secret JFK message to supporters that he didn't concede, and if the statement in the Globe that they're trying to tamp down conspiracies that the election was stolen is untrue ... ad nauseum.
You don't have any evidence so you resort to flaming and insults. That's what's really sad and pathetic too.
What's sad is you don't have the balls to directly address any of the factual information I've laid out, including Kerry campaign statements from top-level officials, which could charitably be construed as lies if they're engaged in a "smart" effort at disinformation to out-Rove Rove, and if Cam's statement, as one of the opinion pieces you cling to was a secret JFK message to supporters that he didn't concede, and if the statement in the Globe that they're trying to tamp down conspiracies that the election was stolen is untrue ... ad nauseum.
You don't have any evidence so you resort to flaming and insults. That's what's really sad and pathetic too.
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 10:52 am) |
| CJ--go here and learn: http://oldamericancentury.org/bb/index.php?showtopic=199 |
Ummmmmm....you know, know one wants to beleive this more than me, but care to provide a link....
'Doc
"Learn" what? About your "theory"? You're entitled to your opinion; as they say everybody has one. In your most recent post, you opine that the people are going to rise up against the "oligarchs" and Kerry will be sworn in as president on Jan. 20. I just don't find any of this very credible. 
| QUOTE (Dr. Left @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 11:04 am) | ||
Ummmmmm....you know, know one wants to beleive this more than me, but care to provide a link.... 'Doc |
Sorry DOC--no links-- Logic yes.
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 11:11 am) | ||||
Sorry DOC--no links-- Logic yes. |
If there is no link, then there is no proof, like I said I would love for it to be true, but you know what, no proof is a solid as smoke....
'Doc
Fair enuf--But what do think of the logic behind what I'm saying. Is it Cogent?
| QUOTE (FogerRox @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 11:23 am) |
| Fair enuf--But what do think of the logic behind what I'm saying. Is it Cogent? |
We can rationalize just about anything if we look hard enough to find an angle or justification. Even if I were to put aside any doubt about Kerry's secret agenda it still does not explain to me why hell was not raised before the election in regard to voting equipment. Surely the easiest way to help ensure a defeat of Bush in November would be to ensure that cheating is not allowed to take place and attempt very loudly to get the machines removed. And as I have said repeatedly if the Dems didn't have the numbers than they needed to call on the public to boycott the machines and refuse to use them on election day with Democratic officials at every precict to help let voters know how to go about filling out a provisional ballot.
There were a plethora of reasons after 2000 to be very wary of those machines as well as after the 2002 elections. Ultimately, it would seem much harder to try to win an election after it has been stolen. That makes no sense. Democratic primary candidate Dean sat right next to Bev as they hacked the vote in 90 secs. They were well aware of the dangers but stood back and allowed it to happen as if the danger was not apparent. Lets also not forget that what Bev uncovered was NEVER supposed to happen and had she not by chance stumbled onto the site and downloaded the documents there would be no proof as to the unreliablity of these systems. The chance that Bev stumbled on this was one in a million and was incredibly lucky. So do the Dems take advantage of this prescient warning or do they essentially ignore it?
You see the logic of doing what the Dems have done over the last 4 years as they have surrendered my country to fascists makes no sense and is not cogent to me...unless its all the same corporate game after all.
| QUOTE (greyowl @ Thursday, 18 November 2004, 7:38 pm) |
| We can rationalize just about anything if we look hard enough to find an angle or justification. Even if I were to put aside any doubt about Kerry's secret agenda it still does not explain to me why hell was not raised before the election in regard to voting equipment. Surely the easiest way to help ensure a defeat of Bush in November would be to ensure that cheating is not allowed to take place and attempt very loudly to get the machines removed. And as I have said repeatedly if the Dems didn't have the numbers than they needed to call on the public to boycott the machines and refuse to use them on election day with Democratic officials at every precict to help let voters know how to go about filling out a provisional ballot. There were a plethora of reasons after 2000 to be very wary of those machines as well as after the 2002 elections. Ultimately, it would seem much harder to try to win an election after it has been stolen. That makes no sense. Democratic primary candidate Dean sat right next to Bev as they hacked the vote in 90 secs. They were well aware of the dangers but stood back and allowed it to happen as if the danger was not apparent. Lets also not forget that what Bev uncovered was NEVER supposed to happen and had she not by chance stumbled onto the site and downloaded the documents there would be no proof as to the unreliablity of these systems. The chance that Bev stumbled on this was one in a million and was incredibly lucky. So do the Dems take advantage of this prescient warning or do they essentially ignore it? You see the logic of doing what the Dems have done over the last 4 years as they have surrendered my country to fascists makes no sense and is not cogent to me...unless its all the same corporate game after all. |
Yup there was plenty of warning, Bev Harris has been screaming this since the 2000 election, then she screamed even louder after the mid-term election...the Democrates did NOTHING and look what we have now....
Doc
RDB is the one always stamping out conspiracy fires... he's pointed at my tinfoil hat on more than one occasion-
so it is interesting that he's chosen to assign motives and an agenda to the kerry camp with no evidence, merely to soothe his basic disappointment in them for conceding. it is hard to believe it, i know, it hurts like hell that these people that you put your faith in and supported so much would just desert like that-
but let me point out one more itty bit of info: i read in USNEWS&WR yesterday that democrats are upset that kerry didn't spend 16MILLION dollars of his campaign money- one more thing to look at critically in light of his quick concession...
here's a boston globe story about it:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...ys_unspent_16m/
so it is interesting that he's chosen to assign motives and an agenda to the kerry camp with no evidence, merely to soothe his basic disappointment in them for conceding. it is hard to believe it, i know, it hurts like hell that these people that you put your faith in and supported so much would just desert like that-
but let me point out one more itty bit of info: i read in USNEWS&WR yesterday that democrats are upset that kerry didn't spend 16MILLION dollars of his campaign money- one more thing to look at critically in light of his quick concession...
here's a boston globe story about it:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...ys_unspent_16m/
| QUOTE |
| Some Democrats decry Kerry's unspent $16m In close races, they say, funds would've helped By Rick Klein and Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | November 19, 2004 WASHINGTON -- The Democrat who was defeated in one of the closest Senate races in the country joined some other party leaders yesterday in questioning why Senator John F. Kerry kept $16 million in a campaign account rather than donate it to Democrats who desperately needed funding down the stretch. Kerry aides said the money was set aside to cover late-arriving bills and any legal challenges to the presidential outcome. But other Democrats said the money, which was raised during Kerry's primary-election campaign and could not be spent on his own general-election campaign due to federal limits, should have been given to other candidates to spend. Daniel Mongiardo, who lost a US Senate race in Kentucky by slightly more than 1 percentage point, said he would have loved to combat negative advertising by his opponent, Senator Jim Bunning. Mongiardo was unable to afford either mailings or a door-to-door effort to get out the vote, he said. ''We lost in the west, where they were running an ad against me that tied me to Kerry and accused me of being liberal, and that was far from the truth," said Mongiardo, who estimated that he was outspent 4-1 by Bunning. ''But we didn't have the resources to combat their message. We definitely outworked the guy. We just were underfunded." Gordon Fischer, chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party, said Kerry should not have withheld so much money from an election season in which so many Democrats were locked in close races. ''There's going to be a lot of soul-searching about this loss, and this needs to be added to the mix of what went wrong," said Fischer, who saw Kerry lose in Iowa by 10,000 votes. ''Several million dollars left over -- it seems like that shouldn't happen. It should be much closer to zero." The Kerry campaign provided details of its primary surplus yesterday, but aides declined to speak publicly about it. Late Wednesday, campaign spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter told the Globe, ''John Kerry raised more money than any Democratic nominee in history, and he gave more money to Democratic candidates across the country than any other nominee in history." The surplus money is in the account set up by Kerry for the Democratic primaries. Under federal regulations, Kerry could not spend the money after July 29 -- the day he accepted the Democratic nomination -- because he agreed to a spending cap in exchange for federal financing. Aides said much of the extra money came via Internet donations during the convention, meaning it was too late for Kerry's own campaign. But the rules allowed Kerry to give the money to other candidates or to the party. He also is allowed to use it to pay for costs associated with his Senate career, or in a future run for president. |
| QUOTE (tamara @ Friday, 19 November 2004, 7:14 am) | ||
| RDB is the one always stamping out conspiracy fires... he's pointed at my tinfoil hat on more than one occasion- so it is interesting that he's chosen to assign motives and an agenda to the kerry camp with no evidence, merely to soothe his basic disappointment in them for conceding. it is hard to believe it, i know, it hurts like hell that these people that you put your faith in and supported so much would just desert like that- but let me point out one more itty bit of info: i read in USNEWS&WR yesterday that democrats are upset that kerry didn't spend 16MILLION dollars of his campaign money- one more thing to look at critically in light of his quick concession... here's a boston globe story about it: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washingt...ys_unspent_16m/
|
Ya, I spotted that story too....interesting wasn't it.
'Doc
i'm sure RDB will try to rationalize it that the money is for the big election fraud fight that never happened.
denial is a mother.
-t-
denial is a mother.
-t-
| QUOTE (tamara @ Friday, 19 November 2004, 7:45 am) |
| i'm sure RDB will try to rationalize it that the money is for the big election fraud fight that never happened. denial is a mother. -t- |
Yeah it sure is...
'Doc
Check into campaign spending laws. It's an interesting topic, especially as it applies to some of the armchair strategists' folklore about how they think Kerry could have spent his "leftover" campaign money.
While you're at it, check into the reason why presidential campaigns always have to (unless they're severely mismanaged!) keep a chunk of money unspent at the end. Hint: if the campaign goes well, they need that money for something extremely important.
While you're at it, check into the reason why presidential campaigns always have to (unless they're severely mismanaged!) keep a chunk of money unspent at the end. Hint: if the campaign goes well, they need that money for something extremely important.
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Friday, 19 November 2004, 8:09 am) |
| Check into campaign spending laws. It's an interesting topic, especially as it applies to some of the armchair strategists' folklore about how they think Kerry could have spent his "leftover" campaign money. While you're at it, check into the reason why presidential campaigns always have to (unless they're severely mismanaged!) keep a chunk of money unspent at the end. Hint: if the campaign goes well, they need that money for something extremely important. |
Gee it's funny that the Democratic house members don't seem to understand those rules because yesterday they asked Kerry to account for those funds and to turn them over to the DNC....I guess they didn't read the rules, better send them an Email RDB and let them know....<smirk>
Doc
| QUOTE (Dr. Left @ Friday, 19 November 2004, 8:13 am) |
| <smirk> |
Smirk smirk smirk. You sure are into smirking, and you sure are NOT into reading anything that might teach you something new.
Check into campaign spending laws. It's an interesting topic, especially as it applies to some of the armchair strategists' folklore about how they think Kerry could have spent his "leftover" campaign money.
While you're at it, check into the reason why presidential campaigns always have to (unless they're severely mismanaged!) keep a chunk of money unspent at the end. Hint: if the campaign goes well, they need that money for something extremely important.
I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to understand that the congressional oversight question is a separate issue from the armchair strategists' folklore about how they think Kerry could have spent his "leftover" campaign money. I think you're smart enough to know that... but I could be wrong on that.
| QUOTE (tamara @ Friday, 19 November 2004, 7:45 am) |
| i'm sure RDB will try to rationalize it that the money is for the big election fraud fight that never happened. denial is a mother. -t- |
Actually starting NOv.3rd Money for legal battles must come from a Legal contingency Fund. IIRC .
I had mentioned this before IIRC, Kerry had about 3.5 million-Bush: about 6.5 million. in their legal contingency funds.
I hate repeating things. It does nothing to make an idea more cogent, though it might be important enough to repeat. Double edged sword I guess.
| QUOTE (Rev. Day-Bu @ Friday, 19 November 2004, 8:22 am) |
| Smirk smirk smirk. You sure are into smirking, and you sure are NOT into reading anything that might teach you something new. Check into campaign spending laws. It's an interesting topic, especially as it applies to some of the armchair strategists' folklore about how they think Kerry could have spent his "leftover" campaign money. While you're at it, check into the reason why presidential campaigns always have to (unless they're severely mismanaged!) keep a chunk of money unspent at the end. Hint: if the campaign goes well, they need that money for something extremely important. I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to understand that the congressional oversight question is a separate issue from the armchair strategists' folklore about how they think Kerry could have spent his "leftover" campaign money. I think you're smart enough to know that... but I could be wrong on that. |
I don't need a pompus ass like you to teach me anything, it's to bad that you are to stupid to learn. All you want to do is sit here and spew your bullshit and expecting all of us to eat it without asking questions. Up yours RDB, go away, become educated and then you can come back and talk with the adults...
Stupid moron.
Doc
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.