Whenever the Bushster shrieks Al Qaeda and reminds us to be afraid, we all know to worry more about the messenger than his message.

K.O. on the Bush terror tour

I'm not a violent person as a rule.

What the fuck is this fuck-wit doing as leader of the 'free' world!
Is THAT what we're supposed to look up to and respect!!! Why the fuck do we follow this moronic war monger anywhere!
Jesus wept!
The man needs some sense slapping into him... and keep slapping until the idiot gets it! Then throw the fucker in jail - preferable Gitmo!

Impeach the M.F. already!!!

Sorry.

I know you are British, but if you knew what a sorry excuse for an opposition party the Democratic Party is in this country you would not talk of impeachment. Even if Nancy Pelosi had not stated that impeachment was off the table, I truely believe these people would not even attempt to impeach. I believe their true interests lie in remaining in power and increasing their power, and they are not about to rock the boat if it could endanger their political positions. This latest vote to roll over to Bush was the straw that broke the camels back for me and a lot of other people. There will be no significant challenges to the Bush Administration by this Congress, much less impeachment. If we don't like that, then we need to vote a party into power that will put prinicipals over politics. That is NOT the Democratic Party.

It's always interesting, when talking to a conservative, that as they go about trashing the Democrats, and I end up agreeing with much of what they say, in some regards, they end up stupefied. When unable to argue based on mindless rhetoric, they are then left to defend their principles, as opposed to mine, and I find oh so often, all they have left are mind-numming talking points and the absolute inability to define their own principles beyond those very talking points (smaller government, lower taxes, family values)---ok, so why do you believe this? Where do these beliefs come from? Are the "facts" you are speaking in agreement with traditional conservative premises? When did you become a neoconservative? "What, I'm no neocon," or more often "What's a necon?"
Bottom line, when you take away their ability to identify you as "a Democrat," they lose their tools of defense against your position. Of course it then becomes the L word (liberal) that gets substituted, but if you can defend your principles on that basis, and show that the Democrats are not participating in those ideals you hold, you can remove (or enhance) their own identity with the Republican party. Force them, then, to justify their own support of a party in comparison to their "conservative" beliefs. Are they one and the same, or have the Republicans been co-opted by the neocons as well? In other words, force them, and yourself for that matter, to determine if their own (or our own) beliefs are being carried out by the banner parties in question. My only major intent in that process is to get them to think for themselves and dump the talking point rhetoric, not to convert them. A thinking public politic is better than an army of drones. It also allows more intelligent conversation and debate beyond just the "Republicans this or the Democrats that."
Does it work? Sometimes. Usually it merely frustrated the protaganist to the point of refusing to debate or converse further, but at least they have lost the ability to narrowly categorize you as "one of those." If someone truly is a conservative, I want them to be able to tell me why. I often hear Tom Hartmann ask a self-identified conservative waht that means. I think that's an excellent approach to take. It broadens the conversation as well as identifies limitations. Pretend you a two-year-old...Why? Why? Why? Why do you believe that? Because Rush said so? But I also think each of us needs to be able to answer those very same questions when put to us.
Rant off.

Is there an opposition to the naz...,er conservative party in the US ?? Where ? Are they led by anyone ? Who ? Are they effective and do they reflect the vast majority of un-stupid Americans ? If so, then where the fuck are they ??

I absolutely agree. Hence the frustration!
I think America, and the world, has been let down by Congress.
Also, yes, impeachment has become the stuff of fairy tales and day-dreams.

Trin,
You're quite right. Really enjoyed you post.
A democracy is only as effective as its electorate is educated on the issues. That's why the 'powers that be' like to keep us/you stupid and keep the mass media complicit. Democracy, true democracy, would deprive them of power in favour of intelligent, representative government.


You know something Rousseau, it's just occurred to me, they're populating forums like this one, they just haven't realised it yet!
With a little bit of imagination and organisation bringing these concerned, informed people together to form a political party should be doable.
They'd need a name (The Intelligent Party? ); to elect a leader; pool their resources... They've already got a public platform/profile (here!) - a bit of funding and they could be in every living-room in the land...

Somebody tell me why not, quick, before I get too excited!

Both commentators did a great job of pointing out Bush's consistent inconsistencies,
but failed to point out one of the most glaring of that news conference.

Bush stated that if we cut and run and leave Iraq, that Al Qaida will follow us home.
And then very shortly afterward stated that if the Government of Iraq asks us to leave, we'll go!

In other words, Bush has claimed to put America's fate in the hands of the Iraqi government,
a government not quite a year old and who's success as a government is greatly in doubt.

bush has trouble finding his ass in the morning, that's why Laura's there, or Karl, if she's away having her beautiful mind serviced. So him contradicting himself indicates more that Karl was distracted than anything else. Maybe the printer ran out of ink ?

Karen, I know the people are out there, but who will give us the incentive to get off our butts ? A new world is possible, a better world, but we are faced with a big job and an uphill battle, and I just wonder if anyone is really prepared for this. The vast majority have been bought off with trinkets and blankets, and the few who have remained lucid are increasingly getting the impression that they are railing against the Wall of Apathy, and they seem to be the only ones who can hear the cackle of the neocons and their diverse manifestations playing devil's advocate in the engine room from behind the wall.....

You say you want a Revolution?

Yep, but if you were to really examine half of what he stammers about you'd be just as confused as he is.

Quite honestly, that press conference, and almost all occasions where this man speaks, are just painful to watch. I have to listen to this man in very small, measured doses. Too much at once is not good for ones blood pressure, to say nothing of their sanity

The "bit of funding" part. Unlike most democrats or republicans, we (I think I'm speaking for most of us) don't hoard money, we use it as we can for the betterment of others and live in rather spartan manner. The internet is one of our luxuries. Now this doesn't mean that we are innefectual, but it does tend toward our innability to take out full page ads in the NY times. We also don't have the financial ability to influence the mass media to give us airtime (Kuccinich's campaign should make this point understood). As they say, "Money Talks".

On a different note, We also have the in-fighting as to the best way to proceed. This forum is evidence, as is the inner workings of a lot of non - profit organizations. Since they don't make much money, they figure that they should be paid in recognition, and when everyone wants to be paid in recognition, then the only real recognition you get is your own.

There also is the point that right now we have the worst pesidential regime in history to catalyze us toward togetherness. Unless another war-mongering facist will take office, the in fighting between progressives becomes more intense because there are so many different SCREWED UP things going on in the world, and we all have our pet causes.

I'm not trying to bring you down witth this post, Kazz, I'm just telling you what the obstacles I've seen to the beginning of the "progressive party" that we all want to see started. maybe we can brainstorm solutions to these?

Oh, the will and the drive is there Rousseau, of that I have very little doubt - I read it every day, here, LIberalsOlny, TVNewsLies, Alternet readers comments, Common Dreams comments.... - All over the internet the will and the drive is there.
What's lacking is a cohesive, concerted effort to bring all these people together under one banner.
The momentum of those of us already politically aware/active/engaged, when we get it together, will surely be strong enough to rouse couch potato's all around the world.

And maybe 'You say you want a revolution?' is exactly the right place to start?

On the other hand, why not combine this idealism with a bit of realism?
Why create a whole new political party, when we already have a perfectly good, fully functioning Liberal party?
Look. If the Money Managers in the Democratic party can form up and call themselves, "The Blue Dogs",
why can't the true Progressives with in and outside the Democratic party all band together and form their own internal party within the party in the same way the Blue Dogs have?

Several Hundred Million Americans are very angry right now, Give them a place to put their voice, and their trust!
But DON'T spend all that time and energy making it from Scratch!

I think brain-storming is a great idea!

On the subject of money, you're right, we're probably right, we're of a group that lives fairly basically, with just the odd luxury. But I think there are all kinds of ways around that.
A little creative imagination and there's no reason for us to utilise the television broadcast medium at all. In fact to use 'traditional' methods of drumming up support would surely mean us playing on an uneven field (they've got that and other forms of mass media all sewn up). Maybe we just start with what we've got, and what we know best.
Maybe we simply write inspirational poems, blogs, mini-movies (I'm thinking youtube and google vid). Have you seen Odanny's new signature?

Think who-ever put this banner up gave a loud and clear message to all. What's to stop us creating a more constructive message in the same way.

The in-fighting thing is a bit more tricky, you're right again, there is so much wrong happening all over the world, and so many have their own 'pet causes'. It takes a tirrant to galvanize and unify a group like this! But wait! I think I know where to find one of them!
See, I think the Bush regime makes a fine unifying catalyst...

I'm getting tired now, so my thoughts are starting to get blurred, but I'll be back on this tomorrow.
There's a thought working it's way to the surface, as soon as I've pulled its pieces together I'll let you know....