Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: sad, but fascinating
OLD American Century / White Rose Society message boards > General > History
POAC
When I'm not working on the Project, I like to do research on local history. Some of you probably know that.
Well, I live within shouting distance of Sioux country. So right now, I'm filling my head with knowledge of the great Sioux war and things of that nature.

Last summer we went to visit the ruins of Fort Randall. Fort Randall was an outpost in a string of forts set up to protect the tresspassing whites and to aid in the crimes against the Plains Indians. It's also the fort that held Chief Sitting Bull for two or three years after his return from Canada. The only structure left standing is a portion of the chapel. Here's a pic:



So yesterday I'm digging around for vintage photos of the plains and the plains Indians and I came across some scans of the first census from the Dakotah territory from 1860.

First a little background on the document:

QUOTE
The 1860 federal census is the eighth census of the United States. It was authorized by Congress on May 23, 1850 (9 Stat. 428), and was begun on June 1, 1860. The enumeration was to be completed within five months.

When Minnesota became a state on May 11, 1858, the vast region of the former western counties of Pembina, Mankahta, Wahnahta, Dakotah, and Wabashaw of the old Minnesota Territory was left without territorial government for nearly three years prior to the creation of the Dakota Territory on March 2, 1861.

This great "unorganized territory" between Minnesota and the Missouri River came to be known as "Unorganized Dakota." The western region of present-day North Dakota and South Dakota, west of the Missouri River, was still part of the Nebraska Territory prior to the creation of the Dakota Territory in 1861.

In the meantime the 1860 federal census was taken, and "Unorganized Dakota" was enumerated right along with the rest of the growing nation, even though it was not yet an official territory of the United States.

The 1860 enumeration of "Unorganized Dakota" included settlers in Pembina and old Fort Abercrombie in present-day North Dakota, and the communities of Medary, Sioux Falls, Vermillion, and the Yankton Agency, in present-day South Dakota.

Several military forts (trading posts) were also enumerated along the Missouri River's west bank and northern reaches, even though they were technically in the Nebraska Territory, not in "Unorganized Dakota." These forts included Fort William, Fort Berthold, and Fort Clark, in present-day North Dakota, and Dirtville, Fort Pierre, Old Fort George, Fort Lookout, and Old Cedar Fort, in present-day South Dakota. Fort Alexander and Fort Union in present-day Montana were also enumerated with "Unorganized Dakota," even though these two trading posts were part of the Nebraska Territory in 1860. Just to make matters more confusing, the U. S. Army's Fort Randall, in present-day South Dakota, was enumerated with the Nebraska Territory.

Two sites in the 1860 census of "Unorganized Dakota" have not been located: Orphan's Village (two inhabitants) presumably in the Red River Valley of North Dakota, and the Old Trading House (twenty-three inhabitants) north of the Niobrara River in present-day South Dakota or Nebraska.

The enumeration of the entire 1860 Federal Census of "Unorganized Dakota" was completed between June 1 and November 1, 1860 by one single man, Oscar W. Streeter of Breckenridge, Minnesota, who traveled the vast territory on horseback to complete the enumeration of this first Dakota territorial census. A total of 4,837 persons were enumerated in "Unorganized Dakota" in 1860.


I bolded Oscar's name because this is his handwriting and signature at the top.
Now check it out:



Number four was the one that caught my eye. I can't make out his full name, but look at his occupation. That's what made me really sad.

Here's the full census count for the Yankton agency:

238 white males
120 white females
54 Indian males
46 Indian females
458
POAC
And this was interesting and funny.

The population of Sioux Falls in 1860:

27 white males
9 white females
1 Indian male
1 Indian female
38

What a sausage fest!


and a year later this happened...

The first newspaper in the Dakotas was printed at Sioux Falls City on July 2, l859. That paper was The Dakota Democrat. It must be distinguished that this paper technically wasn't a "territorial" however. The Dakotas didn't officially become a territory until March 2, 1861. This paper was printed on an irregular basis and before long the name was changed to The Independent. 1t was still in business in 1862 when the Santee Sioux Indians raided the village. The Indians dumped the press into the river and made off with the type metal.

That made me laugh.
POAC
well, it seems that wasn't all that happened that year:

QUOTE
Although conflicts in Minnehaha County between American Indians and white settlers were few, the Dakota War of 1862 engulfed nearby southwestern Minnesota. The town was evacuated in August of that year when two local settlers were killed as a result of the conflict. The settlers and soldiers stationed here traveled to Yankton in late August 1862. The abandoned townsite was pillaged and burned.


http://tinyurl.com/yrp8yz
sky of mind
JT,

Have a look around the University of Nebraska Press. And then click the link and look at Bison Books.


Here you will find an excellent source for the time and place you are currently interested.

Two books I highly suggest are....

Crazy Horse: The Strange Man of the Oglalas (1942)
"Writing from an Indian point of view and in Indian language patterns . . . Sandoz displayed an exquisite sensitivity to the spiritual and cultural impact of landscape and topography, and intensely conveyed the emotional, psychological, and religious universe of the Plains Indians. . . . That sensitivity makes this, the most accomplished biography of Crazy Horse and one of the best and most moving books ever written about the American West, a strange, often unsettling work."
—Benjamin Schwarz, Atlantic Monthly.


and

Black Elk Speaks: Being the Life Story of a Holy Man of the Oglala Sioux (1932)
When Black Elk received his great vision, white settlers were invading the Lakotas’ homeland, decimating buffalo herds, and threatening to extinguish the Lakotas’ way of life. The Lakotas fought fiercely to retain their freedom and way of life, a dogged resistance that resulted in a remarkable victory at the Little Bighorn and an unspeakable tragedy at Wounded Knee. Black Elk Speaks offers much more than a precious glimpse of a vanished time, however. As related by Neihardt, Black Elk’s searing visions of the unity of humanity and the earth have made this book a venerated spiritual classic. Whether appreciated as the poignant tale of a Lakota life, a history of a Native nation, or an enduring spiritual testament, Black Elk Speaks is unforgettable.




I think you want to save the link for the University of Nebraska Press and Bison Books.
Look around there and you'll find a lifetime of very good reading.
POAC
Thanks Sky! The first book is the next on my reading list. I'm currently re-reading Cheyenne Autumn by the same author right now. I've read Black Elk Speaks a few times. I like to read that one every couple of years. Really good stuff.

I'm not going to order them online, though. Here's why. I'm close enough to make it up to the Crazyhorse memorial as a day-trip. I want to buy all my stuff there in the giftshop, since the proceeds go to fund the construction. See that? I'm always thinkin'! biggrin.gif
POAC
here's a pic of Fort Randall as it looked in 1861

POAC

This man was part of Sitting Bull's band during the years that were held at Fort Randall after returning from Canada

Title: Nez Perce man known as Steps poses for portrait, Fort Randall, South Dakota, 1882
Photographer:
Studio Name: Bailey, Dix & Mead
Studio Location: United States--South Dakota--Fort Randall
Original Creator:
Photographer's Reference Number:
Date: 1882
Notes: Man missing right hand and both feet kneels beside small table for portrait

Reference number for image in collection no. 564: Aa-172

Note from unidentified source: "Steps, a Nez Perce Indian, who escaped from his band, while surrounded in the bad lands of Nebraska, by Gen'l Miles, in 1878. He then joined Sitting Bull's band of Uncapapa Sioux Indians in the British posessions [sic] and has followed their fortunes ever since. He lost his feet above the ankles, also his right hand by being frozen, having been caught in one of the severe snow storms, 21 years ago.
Subjects: Steps
Portraits--South Dakota
Nez Perce Indians--Clothing & dress
Location Depicted: United States--South Dakota--Fort Randall


Abell9
I do love history, the old west and even some of the modern day words that came as a result of some of the actions against the Indians. Like when General Custer said that infamous statement..."Where the fuck did all those Indians come from"?
sky of mind
Both of these books were given to me, though I have purchased several from UNP.

Interesting note, my copy of Crazy Horse has a stamp on it from the Mt. Rushmore gift shop and inside it's hand dated 1971, with this copies publish date being 1961.





Edit to add.....

I posted this on one of my blogs many moons back...

http://skyofmind.blogspot.com/2005/01/iniq...an-history.html

The Words of Chief Joseph
[On a visit to Washington, D.C., 1879]

At last I was granted permission to come to Washington and bring my friend Yellow Bull and our interpreter with me. I am glad I came. I have shaken hands with a good many friends, but there are some things I want to know which no one seems able to explain. I cannot understand how the Government sends a man out to fight us, as it did General Miles, and then breaks his word. Such a government has some- thing wrong about it. I cannot understand why so many chiefs are allowed to talk so many different ways, and promise so many different things. I have seen the Great Father Chief [President Hayes]; the Next Great Chief [Secretary of the Interior]; the Commissioner Chief; the Law Chief; and many other law chiefs [Congressmen] and they all say they are my friends, and that I shall have justice, but while all their mouths talk right I do not understand why nothing is done for my people. I have heard talk and talk but nothing is done. Good words do not last long unless they amount to something. Words do not pay for my dead people. They do not pay for my country now overrun by white men. They do not protect my father's grave. They do not pay for my horses and cattle. Good words do not give me back my children. Good words will not make good the promise of your war chief, General Miles. Good words will not give my people a home where they can live in peace and take care of themselves. I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and all the broken promises. There has been too much talking by men who had no right to talk. Too many misinterpretations have been made; too many misunderstandings have come up between the white men and the Indians. If the white man wants to live in peace with the Indian he can live in peace. There need be no trouble. Treat all men alike. Give them the same laws. Give them all an even chance to live and grow. All men were made by the same Great Spirit Chief. They are all brothers. The earth is the mother of all people, and all people should have equal rights upon it. You might as well expect all rivers to run backward as that any man who was born a free man should be contented penned up and denied liberty to go where he pleases. If you tie a horse to a stake, do you expect he will grow fat? If you pen an Indian up on a small spot of earth and compel him to stay there, he will not be contented nor will he grow and prosper. I have asked some of the Great White Chiefs where they get their authority to say to the Indian that he shall stay in one place, while he sees white men going where they please. They cannot tell me. I only ask of the Government to be treated as all other men are treated. If I cannot go to my own home, let me have a home in a country where my people will not die so fast. I would like to go to Bitter Root Valley. There my people would be happy; where they are now they are dying. Three have died since I left my camp to come to Washington.

When I think of our condition, my heart is heavy. I see men of my own race treated as outlaws and driven from country to country, or shot down like animals.

I know that my race must change. We cannot hold our own with the white men as we are. We only ask an even chance to live as other men live. We ask to be recognized as men. We ask that the same law shall work alike on all men. If an Indian breaks the law, punish him by the law. If a white man breaks the law, punish him also. Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself -- and I will obey every law or submit to the penalty.

Whenever the white man treats the Indian as they treat each other then we shall have no more wars. We shall be all alike -- brothers of one father and mother, with one sky above us and one country around us and one government for all. Then the Great Spirit Chief who rules above will smile upon this land and send rain to wash out the bloody spots made by brothers' hands upon the face of the earth. For this time the Indian race is waiting and praying. I hope no more groans of wounded men and women will ever go to the ear of the Great Spirit Chief above, and that all people may be one people.






Chief Seattles Great Speech


"Yonder sky that has wept tears of compassion on our fathers for centuries untold, and which, to us, looks eternal, may change. Today it is fair, tomorrow it may be overcast with clouds. My words are like stars that never set. What Seattle says, the great chief, Washington [1], can rely upon, with as much certainty as our paleface brothers can rely upon the return of the seasons.

"The son of the white chief says his father sends us greetings of friendship and good will. This is kind, for we know he has little need of our friendship in return, because his people are many. They are like the grass that covers the vast prairies, while my people are few, and resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain.

"The great, and I presume also good, white chief sends us word that he wants to buy our lands but is willing to allow us to reserve enough to live on comfortably. This indeed appears generous, for the red man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, for we are no longer in need of a great country.

"There was a time when our people covered the whole land, as the waves of a wind-ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor. But that time has long since passed away with the greatness of tribes now almost forgotten. I will not mourn over our untimely decay, nor reproach my paleface brothers for hastening it, for we, too, may have been somewhat to blame.

"When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, their hearts also are disfigured and turn black, and then their cruelty is relentless and knows no bounds, and our old men are not able to restrain them.

"But let us hope that hostilities between the red man and his paleface brothers may never return. We would have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

"True it is, that revenge, with our young braves, is considered gain, even at the cost of their own lives. But old men who stay at home in times of war, and old women, who have sons to lose, know better.

"Our great father Washington, for I presume he is now our father as well as yours, since George has moved his boundaries to the north; our great and good father, I say, sends us word by his son, who, no doubt, is a great chief among his people, that if we do as he desires, he will protect us. His brave armies will be to us a bristling wall of strength, and his great ships of war will fill our harbors so that our ancient enemies far to the northward, the Simsiams and Hydas, will no longer frighten our women and old men. Then he will be our father and we will be his children.

"But can this ever be? Your God loves your people and hates mine; he folds his strong arms lovingly around the white man and leads him as a father leads his infant son, but he has forsaken his red children; he makes your people wax strong every day, and soon they will fill the land; while my people are ebbing away like a fast-receding tide, that will never flow again. The white man's God cannot love his red children or he would protect them. They seem to be orphans and can look nowhere for help. How then can we become brothers? How can your father become our father and bring us prosperity and awaken in us dreams of returning greatness?

"Your God seems to us to be partial. He came to the white man. We never saw Hirn; never even heard His voice; He gave the white man laws but He had no word for His red children whose teeming millions filled this vast continent as the stars fill the firmament. No, we are two distinct races and must ever remain so. There is little in common between us. The ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their final resting place is hallowed ground, while you wander away from the tombs of your fathers seemingly without regret.

"Your religion was written on tables of stone by the iron finger of an angry God, lest you might forget it, The red man could never remember nor comprehend it.

"Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors, the dream of our old men, given them by the great Spirit, and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people.

"Your dead cease to love you and the homes of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb. They wander far off beyond the stars, are soon forgotten, and never return. Our dead never forget the beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its winding rivers, its great mountains and its sequestered vales, and they ever yearn in tenderest affection over the lonely hearted living and often return to visit and comfort them.

"Day and night cannot dwell together. The red man has ever fled the approach of the white man, as the changing mists on the mountainside flee before the blazing morning sun.

"However, your proposition seems a just one, and I think my folks will accept it and will retire to the reservation you offer them, and we will dwell apart and in peace, for the words of the great white chief seem to be the voice of nature speaking to my people out of the thick darkness that is fast gathering around them like a dense fog floating inward from a midnight sea.

"It matters but little where we pass the remainder of our days. They are not many.

"The Indian's night promises to be dark. No bright star hovers about the horizon. Sad-voiced winds moan in the distance. Some grim Nemesis of our race is on the red man's trail, and wherever he goes he will still hear the sure approaching footsteps of the fell destroyer and prepare to meet his doom, as does the wounded doe that hears the approaching footsteps of the hunter. A few more moons, a few more winters, and not one of all the mighty hosts that once filled this broad land or that now roam in fragmentary bands through these vast solitudes will remain to weep over the tombs of a people once as powerful and as hopeful as your own.

"But why should be repine? Why should I murmur at the fate of my people? Tribes are made up of individuals and are no better than they. Men come and go like the waves of the sea. A tear, a tamanawus, a dirge, and they are gone from our longing eyes forever. Even the white man, whose God walked and talked with him, as friend to friend, is not exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see.

"We will ponder your proposition, and when we have decided we will tell you. But should we accept it, I here and now make this the first condition: That we will not be denied the privilege, without molestation, of visiting at will the graves of our ancestors and friends. Every part of this country is sacred to my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove has been hallowed by some fond memory or some sad experience of my tribe,

"Even the rocks that seem to lie dumb as they swelter in the sun along the silent seashore in solemn grandeur thrill with memories of past events connected with the fate of my people, and the very dust under your feet responds more lovingly to our footsteps than to yours, because it is the ashes of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch, for the soil is rich with the life of our kindred.

"The sable braves, and fond mothers, and glad-hearted maidens, and the little children who lived and rejoiced here, and whose very names are now forgotten, still love these solitudes, and their deep fastness at eventide grow shadowy with the presence of dusky spirits. And when the last red man shall have perished from the earth and his memory among white men shall have become a myth, these shores shall swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children shall think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway or in the silence of the woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night, when the streets of your cities and villages shall be silent, and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled and still love this beautiful land. The white man will never be alone. Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not altogether powerless."
odanny


I just started a great book on the opening of the American West, so far it has taken a brutally honest look at President James Polk, John Fremont, and Kit Carson, as well as provoking Mexico into a war in order to pull off a land grab, and is a fascinating look at how "The West Was Won", which thus far into the book has been by deceit and brutality.

I have not yet gotten to the abuses suffered by native Americans but that is upcoming, I recommend this one. Hampton Sides is a great author. You can read some reviews here
POAC
QUOTE(odanny @ Sunday, 4 February 2007, 4:38 pm) [snapback]84907[/snapback]


I just started a great book on the opening of the American West, so far it has taken a brutally honest look at President James Polk, John Fremont, and Kit Carson, as well as provoking Mexico into a war in order to pull off a land grab, and is a fascinating look at how "The West Was Won", which thus far into the book has been by deceit and brutality.

I have not yet gotten to the abuses suffered by native Americans but that is upcoming, I recommend this one. Hampton Sides is a great author. You can read some reviews here


That looks pretty good. I'll be getting that one, too.
POAC
Here's the only known photo of the chapel intact.


Abell9
QUOTE
Number four was the one that caught my eye. I can't make out his full name, but look at his occupation. That's what made me really sad.


I couldnt read it....what was his occupation?
POAC
QUOTE(Abell9 @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 11:11 am) [snapback]84953[/snapback]
I couldnt read it....what was his occupation?


Chief, farmer

Gadzooks!
Mato Senetea. Pale Bear.
POAC
QUOTE(Gadzooks! @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 12:23 pm) [snapback]84958[/snapback]
Mato Senetea. Pale Bear.


I was hoping you could help me out. Thank you so much.
POAC
here's the list in readable type
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:T2txej...;cd=1&gl=us

Abell9
QUOTE(POAC @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 12:37 pm) [snapback]84960[/snapback]



You notice Emme Bradford, age 16...School Teacher. Thought that was pretty cool.
Also noticed how many "Hunters" were listed as occupation.

Interesting times.
Gadzooks!
I think I would have liked Jubal's input on this. A shame he put such a high price tag on the sharing of his knowledge, training, experience and opinion.
POAC
QUOTE(Abell9 @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 1:02 pm) [snapback]84961[/snapback]
You notice Emme Bradford, age 16...School Teacher. Thought that was pretty cool.
Also noticed how many "Hunters" were listed as occupation.

Interesting times.


Funny you should mention that. My mother-in-law, age 80, was a teacher in a one room school house in South Dakota at age 16. Give me a few minutes and I'll scare up a pic of her with her class.
Abell9
QUOTE(POAC @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 1:09 pm) [snapback]84963[/snapback]
Funny you should mention that. My mother-in-law, age 80, was a teacher in a one room school house in South Dakota at age 16. Give me a few minutes and I'll scare up a pic of her with her class.


Since the requirements of instruction were mild (basic reading, writing, and math) it would seem entirely appropriate for one that young to teach. I am also told that the cost of a teacher was below most other occupations. IN that respect, it hasnt changed much I guess.

I would be curious....did your Grandmother teach Indians as well or ever make mention of it?

My great great Grandmother was "commissioned" to teach "darkies" in Virginia and spoke of that till she died. As I recall, she said she was "commissioned" by local land owners to do this and was paid by the number she instructed. 5 cents a day per student. Said she seldom had more than 5 students because the kids had to work and their folks didnt care for learning "such nonsence". One of her students was the first black to attend Washington and Lee University, another...VMI (Virginia Military Institute) She was a tough old lady. My father told me that her husband (my GG Grandfather) came home one night from a clan meeting liquored up and she beat him with a Hickory stick till he passed out. NOt sure if it was the liquor or the Clan that set her off but she had no tolerance for racial intolerance. Wish I could speak with her today.
POAC
ok, so here's my mother-in-law with her brother circa 1930


...and here she is with her class circa 1943. She's the tall one on the right. Age 16



She tells some great stories about life in the Dakotas during the "dirty thirties". At those times it was customary to have your dinner table set at all times. When a dust storm was coming through, you could see it coming on the horizon and the family would scramble to get all of the place settings turned upside down so the plates wouldn't fill with dirt. The dirt was so bad that it actually blacked out the sun and created drifts, like snow drifts, through the cracks under the doors.

The weird thing about South Dakota, is that it still hasn't changed all that much. You get out into the small towns and it's just like it was in the old west days. One main road. A "saloon" where all the men of the town and the rougher women hang out. Cowboys and girls (spurs and all) a couple of basic shops for necessities, and that's about it. I'll see if I can find a pic of Letcher, S.D. ya. You'll see what I'm talking about.


POAC
Abell, she never mentioned teaching Indians. She does tell a story about one that her mother used to talk about. Shirley's grandparents ran the ferry across the river (Missouri?) and her mother would tell stories of hearing the Indians fighting and the blood curdling terrifying screams at night coming from across the river.

Now that makes me wonder about a few things. Particularly, was it really fighting that she heard. I can imagine just singing and dancing might scare the hell out of a little white girl on the open prairie. I plan on finding out exactly where the ferry was and when it was and if there was any fighting likely in that area at that time. And if so, who was it.
Abell9
POAC. In that photo of the school children, did you happen to notice the 3 boys in overalls? Two on the left, one in the middle? Notice the eyes and face. Look at all three. What do you see?
POAC
QUOTE(Abell9 @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 1:55 pm) [snapback]84971[/snapback]
POAC. In that photo of the school children, did you happen to notice the 3 boys in overalls? Two on the left, one in the middle? Notice the eyes and face. Look at all three. What do you see?


A hell of a lot more than they did. blink.gif
They are caucasian. They just had "really tight eyelids" as Shirley calls it. The doctor offered surgery for them, but their mother refused because that is the way god made them.

SD: yesterday and today
http://oldamericancentury.org/bb/index.php?showtopic=13037
sky of mind
QUOTE(Abell9 @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 11:02 am) [snapback]84961[/snapback]
You notice Emme Bradford, age 16...School Teacher. Thought that was pretty cool.
Also noticed how many "Hunters" were listed as occupation.

Interesting times.





"Born in Norway" is also quite prominent
maxanne
QUOTE(POAC @ Sunday, 4 February 2007, 4:11 pm) [snapback]84896[/snapback]
Thanks Sky! The first book is the next on my reading list. I'm currently re-reading Cheyenne Autumn by the same author right now. I've read Black Elk Speaks a few times. I like to read that one every couple of years. Really good stuff.

I'm not going to order them online, though. Here's why. I'm close enough to make it up to the Crazyhorse memorial as a day-trip. I want to buy all my stuff there in the giftshop, since the proceeds go to fund the construction. See that? I'm always thinkin'! biggrin.gif


I have mixed feelings about the memorial, since Crazy Horse never allowed himself to be photographed....and wouldn't care for the monument.

Have you ever been to the site of the Battle of Little Bighorn, TJ? Or the site of the massacre at Wounded Knee?
sky of mind
QUOTE(Abell9 @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 11:55 am) [snapback]84971[/snapback]
POAC. In that photo of the school children, did you happen to notice the 3 boys in overalls? Two on the left, one in the middle? Notice the eyes and face. Look at all three. What do you see?




I see indians, being forced to look white.
Back then they did everything possible to remove the indian, from the Native American.
Same Phenom happened in Australia with the indigenous people. And the Philipines, and Hawaii, and Mexicans in America.
POAC
QUOTE(maxanne @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 2:13 pm) [snapback]84978[/snapback]
I have mixed feelings about the memorial, since Crazy Horse never allowed himself to be photographed....and wouldn't care for the monument.

Have you ever been to the site of the Battle of Little Bighorn, TJ? Or the site of the massacre at Wounded Knee?


Well, the guy who designed the monument mixed the physical features of all Native Americans and wanted to symbolize them as a whole, in the mounument. Not represent Crazyhorse visually or specifically. If that helps. You wanna know why I like it? Because the entire Mt Rushmore sculpture is teensie tiny compared to this. I like that.

I haven't been to any prominent sites (aside from Fort Randall) yet. I plan on some major road trips this summer. I have a travel guide that lists all of the known sites of the Great Sioux War. Even sights of small skirmishes. Many are on private property, but I'm thinking a call in advance and an offer to print some photos for the owner may go a long way in granting me access. My reason for wanting to go is to pay tribute to the native sacrifices, more than intellectual curiosity. It's going to be a really emotional bunch of trips. I can just see it now. I'm be standing there weeping quietly to myself and some Indian guy walks up, "What the hell are you cryin' about, white man?"
redface.gif
POAC
QUOTE(sky of mind @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 2:18 pm) [snapback]84979[/snapback]
I see indians, being forced to look white.
Back then they did everything possible to remove the indian, from the Native American.
Same Phenom happened in Australia with the indigenous people. And the Philipines, and Hawaii, and Mexicans in America.


I don't think so. But I'll find out for sure.

edit to add:

I gotta run guys. I have to go send my doctor into a panic (have my cholesterol and blodd pressure checked). This'll be fun. Anyone wann make some guesses? Hint: guess really high, and then double it. eek.gif

I'll be back in a little while and post osome more galleries. This is helping me get my pics organized
sky of mind
Check out the movie "Rabbit Proof Fence"

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/mar2002/rabb-m12.shtml


This basically happened all over the world. Canada, Africa, India......





It's an excellent story, and an even better film.
maxanne
QUOTE(POAC @ Monday, 5 February 2007, 3:23 pm) [snapback]84981[/snapback]
Well, the guy who designed the monument mixed the physical features of all Native Americans and wanted to symbolize them as a whole, in the mounument. Not represent Crazyhorse visually or specifically. If that helps. You wanna know why I like it? Because the entire Mt Rushmore sculpture is teensie tiny compared to this. I like that.

I haven't been to any prominent sites (aside from Fort Randall) yet. I plan on some major road trips this summer. I have a travel guide that lists all of the known sites of the Great Sioux War. Even sights of small skirmishes. Many are on private property, but I'm thinking a call in advance and an offer to print some photos for the owner may go a long way in granting me access. My reason for wanting to go is to pay tribute to the native sacrifices, more than intellectual curiosity. It's going to be a really emotional bunch of trips. I can just see it now. I'm be standing there weeping quietly to myself and some Indian guy walks up, "What the hell are you cryin' about, white man?"
redface.gif


I would urge you to go to the site of Little Bighorn - it's fascinating. It's something to see (with your own eyes) how huge the area the battlefield is. It's also interesting to see how the graves are marked. In the museum, all of the staff (the day I was there) were Indians - talk about getting the last laugh. Some of Custer's uniforms are on display - which really tells you all you need to know about him. He was a very, very small man.

I also urge you to go to Wounded Knee. Every American should have to go to the Pine Ridge Reservation, and see the sins we've committed there.

The church where the survivors and the wounded were taken after the massacre is no longer there - it was burned down after the seige of the 70's. It is worth going, however, to encounter the ghosts in the cemetery.

I'm no stranger to rural poverty, we have plenty of it in northern NH and Maine. But, here in northern New England, we have trees, and trees do a lot to conceal and beautify. On the prairie, that poverty is stark - it's unavoidable. It's also far more desperate, grinding poverty than we see here. The kind of poverty I saw on the reservation is mind bending. You'd expect to see it in a third world country.

I was regarded with a great deal of suspicion (unsurprisingly) when I went. I was followed around the reservation by a number of different vehicles, including tribal police. A white woman traveling alone, in a car with NH plates is something of an oddity there. At the cemetery, someone was dispatched to talk to me, to find out who I was and what I was doing there. I had a long conversation with the woman who came to talk to me. It was something of an eye opener for both of us. I was moving to California - and she could no more fathom my life (leaving everything and everyone I knew in NH and moving across the country) than I could fathom here life on the reservation.

Wounded Knee is haunted, and haunting.
Abell9
I have always been amazed at how military history spoke of Custer versus how history in general speaks of it. Typically, historians treated it with factoid type brush ups even to the favor of his image. He was white, he was American, he was a soldier, and they in some recounts called him a hero.
The Military uses his arrogance, his bone headed thinking, and his self importance to emphasize how NOT to be a leader. Interestingly, the military does memorialize him to some degree with a 6th Cav. monument there but does not speak outside of it's own halls of instruction about the sheer stupidity of what he did, what he should have done, and the Little Hero Self Worship he had going on. Yes, he was bold but.....(and the buts go on for 31 chapters) He bought and paid for one of the best ass whuppens ever delivered in that era.

The history of the American Indian is wonderful and sad.
sky of mind
Fortunately, way too late for many tribes, and in spite of the casino movement, the push has been on for a few years now, world wide to save, protect and nurture native culture.

The collective shame of white immigrants through those times outta be a guide and ruler for todays issues, but I doubt it is.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.